This nurse is all for the acceptance of 'trans' men and women, as long as we're able to keep single sex spaces. That's how I used to be. But after immersing myself in this movement, I'm way beyond that. There is no such thing as 'trans'. No one can 'transcend' their biological sex. They can only express their personality through the 'gender' stereotypes they are inclined to adopt.
Agreed that it's a mental illness and a delusion, but that's consistent with the idea of 'acceptance' ie playing along as nobody else's interests are harmed in the process. Certainly not denying them basic human rights (employment, housing, services). The problem is that it seems for so many of them, that will never be enough.
Not quite true. Older transsexuals have had good experiences with surgery, especially those who went to South America in the 60s and 70s. I have 2 transsexual friends in their 70s who pass as older women. They are both very clear that they are biological men who present as women and support women's rights. I have known them for over 50 years. As they say, if homosexuality had been legal in the States as they grew up, I would never have known them and they would still be gay men!!
That is so sad. These poor men must have been so desperate. Thak goodness that gay men can go about their lives just the same way as everyone else these days.
So in a mental health ward, spaces that have always included the best and worst of people, a woman may have to share a room or ward with a maniac male acting as if he’s a woman. But let’s be politically correct so as not to hurt a potential monsters feelings? This is the upside down.
Presumably a man who claims to be a woman but looks and acts just like a man can demand that female medical staff treat him as a female? Whilst everyone is being politically correct, following rules etc, female medical staff could be at risk of harm or humiliation. I worked in A&E for a few years and on any normal day, people came in with all sorts of kinks.
And if you are struggling and need clarity, honesty and for everyone to be direct with you, not playing games or lying, or confusing anything and to be able to trust and build relationships, how could this possibly help. Healthcare settings can be incendiary places at times and atmospheres can change rapidly because of one or two people.
Soooooo any man admitted to a mental health ward can tell the nurse that he's a woman with a GRC, honest guv, and have him or her change his record to say he's female, and the nurse is not allowed to question him or put any note in the record that it has been altered? Smashing. No-one would EVER take advantage of that amount of rank stupidity.
Yes that really stood out for me too: the certificate that is supposed to tell the world about the new gender is something that the world can't ask to see. Through the Looking Glass stuff.
How can it be that a document (GRC) holds the power to completely alter your legal and medical records and how you are treated by others, but the people expected to facilitate these monumental provisions aren't allowed to ask to see the document before they do so? Why are professionals being put in that position?
Not only does that pose privacy and safety issues for other NHS users, but surely also for the person with the GRC too. If the treating doctors don’t know the patient’s biological sex, how can they determine whether he or she has a condition related to the biology of the sex opposite to that of the one on the medical records? It gets worse when you see guidelines like these saying you mustn’t even ask.
Also will the rest of us be subjected to unnecessary medical examinations and procedures? Should the doctors treating my stomach issues assume that I might have a womb that I haven’t told them about and carry out a procedure to check it just in case there is one that responsible for my stomach pain?
Yes, urinary problems for example. If you need something put inside you for that you need to know the sex.
Then there's the basic patient safety aspect. GRC or not, if someone has a cock they're not a woman and shouldn't be allowed on women's wards. Baroness Nicholson has the receipts on what that leads to.
Also, how traumatic must it be, especially for female staff, if they have to conduct a full body medical examination of a patient and a dick flops out of someone claiming to be a woman. That's just gross.
Considering the mess that is made as surgeons aka god alter urethras in their frankenstein laboratories, I cannot imagine how you would insert a catheter.
It "was really cute and awesome that I was treated as male" but entirely the medics' fault they were missing crucial information and wasted valuable time and resources on me and I nearly died. (I'm paraphrasing the second bit.)
I read through this BBC article. It is full of misinformation and draws no clear conclusions.
It appears that Whitley, born female but has taken testosterone (wrong sex hormone) for 15 years didn’t think to mention this fact to medical staff. Yet, the medical profession is being blamed for not knowing this. Their time was wasted due Whitley’s patient records having the sex marker as Male instead of Female.
Whitley’s life was in danger “But he’s registered as a man on his medical records, and this meant his doctors used the male eGFR level. He wasn’t put on the list until he reached it – a decision that ultimately delayed the surgery by over a year, and very nearly cost him his life.”
This person is an “assistant professor of sociology at Western Washington University”. So there’s no excuse for not taking personal responsibility for one’s own health.
It seems to me that those who consider themselves transgender not only want to obfuscate language but expect the entire medical profession to be up to speed with their fluid personal needs.
I wonder has any research been done on the effects of Testosterone consumption on the female body? How does Whitley know that injecting T for 15 years didn’t cause renal failure?
Whitley is married to a woman. In my book that makes them a lesbian couple. Why would you put your life in danger just so you could grow a beard and pretend you’re a man??
One of those moments when I can't click on like. I doubt any research has been done on females taking testosterone. We used to hear news reports in the U.S. about violent males having taken it prior to murdering someone or being shot by the cops, but those seem to have disappeared. A man pointed out that testosterone is essentially toxic -- which is why men die younger, look more aged, etc -- so renal failure would make a lot of sense.
That's something I dread thinking about. Babies are already exposed in utero to all sorts of toxins, and then for a pregnant woman to take in more toxins is inexcusable. I need to be clear, I am not blaming women who are drug users who have no access to care / recovery when they get pregnant.
The GRA must be repealed. My understanding for the reason for it's existence was to allow same sex marriage under the guise of medical transition? We don't need it now as there is no restriction on same sex marriage? Hope that's correct? It's being used in a totally different way now and it's created a superior entitled class, to the detriment of women in particular! This has, for me, now moved into a very dangerous zone!! It needs to go!!
This seems to be a crazed return to the 1950s and before even that decade.
We were supposed to be progressing, moving forward towards the bright uplands of a future where the lessons of the past had been comprehended and the rights and dignities of the vulnerable, of the marginalised and discriminated were going to be upheld and strengthened. We are even told at the beginning of some television shows broadcast way back that they reflected views that be now regard as archaic.
The reality is unfortunately, the complete opposite. The transing-the-gay movement has easily bested the worst that past, allegedly homophobic society was ever capable-of. Now, in these supposedly enlightened times, the while male is supreme, able to lord it over every and any institution, simply by demanding that he be regarded as a 'woman'. Male white supremacism, in its guise of the trans movement, is now rampant, triumphant even, having steamrollered over the Left, over liberalism, even progressivism. 'Woke' is now associated with militant homophobia, misogyny, and with the constant comparisons of white males with black women, incessant racism.
Activists seeking to preserve women's right, children's safeguarding and the hard-fought rights of gay men and lesbians are branded 'fascist', 'far-right' or 'Nazi's'. Those opposing BigPharma and neoliberal corporations are branded 'bigots'.
In this topsy-turvy-world, the active collusion of NHS managers and staff who sacrifice the safety and wellbeing of vulnerable women and girls to service and satisfy the needs of a white male supremacist movement perhaps isn't such a surprise.
I am a bit worried for this anon and their job if an investigation starts. The NHS has a nasty habit of trying to discredit and destroy whistleblowers. The lengths some senior management have gone to have been extreme.
I agree. Personally I don't know why people sanctify "the NHS", and by extension all its employees, so much. There are good ones, excellent ones, indifferent ones and poor ones like in any organisation. My personal experience matches that.
I've been on a mental ward twice. Women walk around half naked and sometimes strip off completely in the throes of psychosis. These are extremely vulnerable women. At the hospital where I was admitted, there was a mixed ward, and luckily I was not put on this ward, the idea for which was probably some top-down utopian bullshit. It of course benefitted the male patients, as the women were considered to be a calming influence, and massively disadvantaged the women.
If having a GRC gives XY access to female spaces etc but service providers can’t require XY to produce a GRC to get access to female spaces, the fiction is that the GRC framework is not de facto self-id.
This isn’t as uncommon as you may think. It works both ways: male-female, female-male wards. In my trust there was an enquiry as to why nurses refused to admit a known rapist on to a female ward because he now identified as female. It came fairly close to staff being suspended as a result until the RCN got involved. This is a trust who’s gender identity unit produced a leaflet for staff listing 50 ways people may identify their gender. It seems once you identify as a particular gender even if you have no intention of physically transforming (more male to female than the reverse) you become a cause celebre where no one can challenge the reasons behind it. I watched a youtube video recently where a ‘redneck’ allegedly, was being lured into the ‘gotcha’ trap when asked about gender. The guy made the perfectly valid point that gender identity is a social, not biological, construct and continued by pointing out the patently obvious. In 200 years time when an anthropologist is asked to evaluate a skeleton they will determine whether it was biologically male or female depending on bone structure; particularly around the pelvic region. I’m with JKR on this: live your best life regardless of how you identify, but there needs to be protections in place to prevent the type of abuse of what should be protected female spaces by men for their own voyeuristic purposes. Both trans men and trans females I know are horrified at how this debate has disenfranchised women to be allowed safe spaces and blame certain people who scream transphobia the loudest of pursuing their own agenda, not that of the trans community in general.
How dare they conflate then need for privacy of adopted children and witnesses with a trans person. I’m an adoptive parent, I frequently have to inform health professionals about this fact, when they ask about family history, etc. Adopted children are still identified as such on their birth record and are not now taught to deny their identity. In fact, it is considered harmful for them to do so. Why the difference, I wonder? Health records for adopted children show their lifetime medical history and the only change is their name. Because biology doesn’t care about legal fictions. This hiding and no questions asked protocol only benefits people who choose to obscure their original identity, and that is either delusional or nefarious.
Interesting that a GRC equates to being in witness protection.
What is the point of a GRC if nobody is allowed to ask about it? I have utter contempt for law drafters who are incapable of thinking beyond the superficial.
Thanks for sharing this Daily Mail article. Made me absolutely incandescent with rage and disappointed that the news item used female pronouns for HIM. Newspapers need to start using accurate terminology and tell the truth. However ,kudos to the paper for reporting it .👏Btw ,as I type this , they're discussing this very case on GB NEWS 👏👍
Yes I thought the same, why use female pronouns for this monster. And apparently the lady he is having a “relationship “ with has special needs. Sounds like coercion to me.
This nurse is all for the acceptance of 'trans' men and women, as long as we're able to keep single sex spaces. That's how I used to be. But after immersing myself in this movement, I'm way beyond that. There is no such thing as 'trans'. No one can 'transcend' their biological sex. They can only express their personality through the 'gender' stereotypes they are inclined to adopt.
I'm the same, their operations are all unnecessary and dangerously botched. I'm no longer a supporter. It's a mental illness; a delusion.
Agreed that it's a mental illness and a delusion, but that's consistent with the idea of 'acceptance' ie playing along as nobody else's interests are harmed in the process. Certainly not denying them basic human rights (employment, housing, services). The problem is that it seems for so many of them, that will never be enough.
Not quite true. Older transsexuals have had good experiences with surgery, especially those who went to South America in the 60s and 70s. I have 2 transsexual friends in their 70s who pass as older women. They are both very clear that they are biological men who present as women and support women's rights. I have known them for over 50 years. As they say, if homosexuality had been legal in the States as they grew up, I would never have known them and they would still be gay men!!
That is so sad. These poor men must have been so desperate. Thak goodness that gay men can go about their lives just the same way as everyone else these days.
So in a mental health ward, spaces that have always included the best and worst of people, a woman may have to share a room or ward with a maniac male acting as if he’s a woman. But let’s be politically correct so as not to hurt a potential monsters feelings? This is the upside down.
Presumably a man who claims to be a woman but looks and acts just like a man can demand that female medical staff treat him as a female? Whilst everyone is being politically correct, following rules etc, female medical staff could be at risk of harm or humiliation. I worked in A&E for a few years and on any normal day, people came in with all sorts of kinks.
And if you are struggling and need clarity, honesty and for everyone to be direct with you, not playing games or lying, or confusing anything and to be able to trust and build relationships, how could this possibly help. Healthcare settings can be incendiary places at times and atmospheres can change rapidly because of one or two people.
Soooooo any man admitted to a mental health ward can tell the nurse that he's a woman with a GRC, honest guv, and have him or her change his record to say he's female, and the nurse is not allowed to question him or put any note in the record that it has been altered? Smashing. No-one would EVER take advantage of that amount of rank stupidity.
Yep, it's an offence, EVEN TO ASK FOR A GRC, it's insanity! And no one knows about it, we have to get it into the media somehow!
Yes that really stood out for me too: the certificate that is supposed to tell the world about the new gender is something that the world can't ask to see. Through the Looking Glass stuff.
How can it be that a document (GRC) holds the power to completely alter your legal and medical records and how you are treated by others, but the people expected to facilitate these monumental provisions aren't allowed to ask to see the document before they do so? Why are professionals being put in that position?
As I read this I thought that the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (see https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/pdfs/ukpga_20040007_en.pdf) must have included some sort of exemption so that the NHS would know someone’s biological sex, but it seems not.
Not only does that pose privacy and safety issues for other NHS users, but surely also for the person with the GRC too. If the treating doctors don’t know the patient’s biological sex, how can they determine whether he or she has a condition related to the biology of the sex opposite to that of the one on the medical records? It gets worse when you see guidelines like these saying you mustn’t even ask.
Also will the rest of us be subjected to unnecessary medical examinations and procedures? Should the doctors treating my stomach issues assume that I might have a womb that I haven’t told them about and carry out a procedure to check it just in case there is one that responsible for my stomach pain?
Yes, urinary problems for example. If you need something put inside you for that you need to know the sex.
Then there's the basic patient safety aspect. GRC or not, if someone has a cock they're not a woman and shouldn't be allowed on women's wards. Baroness Nicholson has the receipts on what that leads to.
Also, how traumatic must it be, especially for female staff, if they have to conduct a full body medical examination of a patient and a dick flops out of someone claiming to be a woman. That's just gross.
Considering the mess that is made as surgeons aka god alter urethras in their frankenstein laboratories, I cannot imagine how you would insert a catheter.
You've made me recall this case
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200814-why-our-medical-systems-are-ignoring-transgender-people
It "was really cute and awesome that I was treated as male" but entirely the medics' fault they were missing crucial information and wasted valuable time and resources on me and I nearly died. (I'm paraphrasing the second bit.)
I read through this BBC article. It is full of misinformation and draws no clear conclusions.
It appears that Whitley, born female but has taken testosterone (wrong sex hormone) for 15 years didn’t think to mention this fact to medical staff. Yet, the medical profession is being blamed for not knowing this. Their time was wasted due Whitley’s patient records having the sex marker as Male instead of Female.
Whitley’s life was in danger “But he’s registered as a man on his medical records, and this meant his doctors used the male eGFR level. He wasn’t put on the list until he reached it – a decision that ultimately delayed the surgery by over a year, and very nearly cost him his life.”
This person is an “assistant professor of sociology at Western Washington University”. So there’s no excuse for not taking personal responsibility for one’s own health.
It seems to me that those who consider themselves transgender not only want to obfuscate language but expect the entire medical profession to be up to speed with their fluid personal needs.
I wonder has any research been done on the effects of Testosterone consumption on the female body? How does Whitley know that injecting T for 15 years didn’t cause renal failure?
Whitley is married to a woman. In my book that makes them a lesbian couple. Why would you put your life in danger just so you could grow a beard and pretend you’re a man??
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
It's staggering isn't it. Withold essential medical information despite getting sinker and sicker and then blame everyone else.
One of those moments when I can't click on like. I doubt any research has been done on females taking testosterone. We used to hear news reports in the U.S. about violent males having taken it prior to murdering someone or being shot by the cops, but those seem to have disappeared. A man pointed out that testosterone is essentially toxic -- which is why men die younger, look more aged, etc -- so renal failure would make a lot of sense.
Yes and they have no idea what effects exogenous testosterone taken by a pregnant woman has on the baby , especially on a female baby .
That's something I dread thinking about. Babies are already exposed in utero to all sorts of toxins, and then for a pregnant woman to take in more toxins is inexcusable. I need to be clear, I am not blaming women who are drug users who have no access to care / recovery when they get pregnant.
Brilliant points!
The GRA must be repealed. My understanding for the reason for it's existence was to allow same sex marriage under the guise of medical transition? We don't need it now as there is no restriction on same sex marriage? Hope that's correct? It's being used in a totally different way now and it's created a superior entitled class, to the detriment of women in particular! This has, for me, now moved into a very dangerous zone!! It needs to go!!
This seems to be a crazed return to the 1950s and before even that decade.
We were supposed to be progressing, moving forward towards the bright uplands of a future where the lessons of the past had been comprehended and the rights and dignities of the vulnerable, of the marginalised and discriminated were going to be upheld and strengthened. We are even told at the beginning of some television shows broadcast way back that they reflected views that be now regard as archaic.
The reality is unfortunately, the complete opposite. The transing-the-gay movement has easily bested the worst that past, allegedly homophobic society was ever capable-of. Now, in these supposedly enlightened times, the while male is supreme, able to lord it over every and any institution, simply by demanding that he be regarded as a 'woman'. Male white supremacism, in its guise of the trans movement, is now rampant, triumphant even, having steamrollered over the Left, over liberalism, even progressivism. 'Woke' is now associated with militant homophobia, misogyny, and with the constant comparisons of white males with black women, incessant racism.
Activists seeking to preserve women's right, children's safeguarding and the hard-fought rights of gay men and lesbians are branded 'fascist', 'far-right' or 'Nazi's'. Those opposing BigPharma and neoliberal corporations are branded 'bigots'.
In this topsy-turvy-world, the active collusion of NHS managers and staff who sacrifice the safety and wellbeing of vulnerable women and girls to service and satisfy the needs of a white male supremacist movement perhaps isn't such a surprise.
My aunt is a MH nurse in that NHS Trust, she is very sensible and lovely, I must ask her what she thinks of this.
I am a bit worried for this anon and their job if an investigation starts. The NHS has a nasty habit of trying to discredit and destroy whistleblowers. The lengths some senior management have gone to have been extreme.
I agree. Personally I don't know why people sanctify "the NHS", and by extension all its employees, so much. There are good ones, excellent ones, indifferent ones and poor ones like in any organisation. My personal experience matches that.
I've been on a mental ward twice. Women walk around half naked and sometimes strip off completely in the throes of psychosis. These are extremely vulnerable women. At the hospital where I was admitted, there was a mixed ward, and luckily I was not put on this ward, the idea for which was probably some top-down utopian bullshit. It of course benefitted the male patients, as the women were considered to be a calming influence, and massively disadvantaged the women.
I hope you are ok now.
Yes, thanks! x
If having a GRC gives XY access to female spaces etc but service providers can’t require XY to produce a GRC to get access to female spaces, the fiction is that the GRC framework is not de facto self-id.
… And that actually, self-ID is INDEED the protocol.
100%
"What is going on?" Someone's standing between a man and his orgasm.
This isn’t as uncommon as you may think. It works both ways: male-female, female-male wards. In my trust there was an enquiry as to why nurses refused to admit a known rapist on to a female ward because he now identified as female. It came fairly close to staff being suspended as a result until the RCN got involved. This is a trust who’s gender identity unit produced a leaflet for staff listing 50 ways people may identify their gender. It seems once you identify as a particular gender even if you have no intention of physically transforming (more male to female than the reverse) you become a cause celebre where no one can challenge the reasons behind it. I watched a youtube video recently where a ‘redneck’ allegedly, was being lured into the ‘gotcha’ trap when asked about gender. The guy made the perfectly valid point that gender identity is a social, not biological, construct and continued by pointing out the patently obvious. In 200 years time when an anthropologist is asked to evaluate a skeleton they will determine whether it was biologically male or female depending on bone structure; particularly around the pelvic region. I’m with JKR on this: live your best life regardless of how you identify, but there needs to be protections in place to prevent the type of abuse of what should be protected female spaces by men for their own voyeuristic purposes. Both trans men and trans females I know are horrified at how this debate has disenfranchised women to be allowed safe spaces and blame certain people who scream transphobia the loudest of pursuing their own agenda, not that of the trans community in general.
How dare they conflate then need for privacy of adopted children and witnesses with a trans person. I’m an adoptive parent, I frequently have to inform health professionals about this fact, when they ask about family history, etc. Adopted children are still identified as such on their birth record and are not now taught to deny their identity. In fact, it is considered harmful for them to do so. Why the difference, I wonder? Health records for adopted children show their lifetime medical history and the only change is their name. Because biology doesn’t care about legal fictions. This hiding and no questions asked protocol only benefits people who choose to obscure their original identity, and that is either delusional or nefarious.
I agree with you, it's not the same at all and it is wrong and insensitive to suggest it is.
"What is going on?" is the BIG question, isn't it?
Interesting that a GRC equates to being in witness protection.
What is the point of a GRC if nobody is allowed to ask about it? I have utter contempt for law drafters who are incapable of thinking beyond the superficial.
Particularly if you are not allowed to ask for proof (ie see the GRC)!
Here is another scandal. At least in England it’s reported in one national newspaper. In Ireland it would most likely be suppressed https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11268259/Transgender-paedophile-moved-prison-wings-starting-relationship-female-inmate.html
Thanks for sharing this Daily Mail article. Made me absolutely incandescent with rage and disappointed that the news item used female pronouns for HIM. Newspapers need to start using accurate terminology and tell the truth. However ,kudos to the paper for reporting it .👏Btw ,as I type this , they're discussing this very case on GB NEWS 👏👍
Yes I thought the same, why use female pronouns for this monster. And apparently the lady he is having a “relationship “ with has special needs. Sounds like coercion to me.
The newspaper would probably have fallen foul of some regulatory authority if they had 'misgendered' him.
Yes, all the 'trans journalistic policy standards' and 'advice' they're now all following. Who are the self-appointed (self-ID) regulator and arbiter.