So glad. As an older straight white woman. I feel that we all need to pull together over this rank ideology for mainly one thing - our future children Delighted that our gay friends can meet somewhere, unafraid to say what they think. Good luck all.
Thank you for letting us know this new group has been established, and good luck to all its members.
It's a challenge; the Rainbow Mafia has a wide reach and many people don't understand why many LGBs don't want to be glued to the Ts and Qs. See https://lgballiance.org.uk/dont-call-me-queer/.
Great to welcome you guys and good to know that you exist! If you can stop the forced teaming of the Gay successes and goodwill with the bigoted Trans rights grab then you will have made a huge step towards fairness and freedom for everyone. Good luck.
It's heartening to know that these groups are being set up and are growing. For too long a vocal minority are holding the rest of a community to ransom. I hope these groups have more luck than women do when they try to meet.
But all such groups, even though they represent a minority (gay people), are now being referred to as "hate groups". Anyone who doesn't accept gender ideology is being branded a "hater". Even the facts -- like the fact that children are being influenced by trans activists, or that drag has similarities to blackface -- are being referred to as "hate speech". The trans activists have ZERO integrity.
Yes, they are - and individuals are being labelled Nazi's and bigots, which is why I hope these groups, though they may be labelled as hate groups (like the LGB Alliance), have more luck meeting than the women's groups have, and we all know how that goes: assault, intimidation and abuse.
I have to be honest that as a retired person who is now a homebody, I don't go to any meetings that might have protesters. However, I've read about many such incidents -- hysterical trans people or trans sympathizers blocking doors and hollering as if they were being physically attacked. It's so stupid. The efforts of trans people to block an honest discussion of their ideas makes THEM the Nazis!
The irony is not lost on many of us. It's pure intimidation. I hope these groups provide a safe space for gay men to meet and I hope many more are peaked as a result.
I'm in the United States. I am a gay man and an anti-trans activist, so I know all about this. I have had pro-trans gay men call me a "bigot" (what a fucking nerve!). I have seen the gay groups, like GLAAD, overtaken by trans activists. But I can't support a group like HumanGayMale. I prefer to isolate gays in their own group, like the group that calls themselves LGB Alliance. I want the Lesbians in my group (even though some Lesbians seem to hate men).
When I was young, I had both women and gay men as friends. Now in old age, I have fewer friends, but they are still divided between gay men and women.
When I was young and hanging out in Greenwich Village, gay men showed little or no interest in drag queens or cross-gender "women". Now, however (according to what I've read, as I don't go to bars any more), every gay bar is a sanctuary for drag queens and trans people. New York City had its tranny bar, and, to the best of my knowledge, very few gay men went to it.
My reason for being anti-trans has partly to do with supporting women (having concluded during a long life that women, though they are 51% of the population, are the most oppressed group in the world). But another reason is that human society must be based on logical ideas for it to be healthy, and the idea that a man can become a "real" woman by virtue of his feelings is total nonsense.
As an old man with multiple health problems, all of my activism is done on the internet. Most recently I was kicked off the Washington Post (for the second time!) for leaving anti-trans comments on the articles. My comments were always well written and never contained any abusive language, but the moderators nonetheless deleted them frequently. The comment that got deleted the most was the one which said:
"The concept of 'gender identity' was dreamed up by trans people as a way to legitimize themselves in the eyes of the public. What they don't realize is that trans people don't need legitimizing. If you are a man who feels like a woman, or a woman who feels like a man, then that is what you are, and you have a right to exist in society as much as anyone else does. But the idea that your gender identity makes you a real member of the opposite sex is preposterous. Trans people need to stop all the pretending and be honest about what they are."
So even though I acknowledged that trans people have a right to exist, they deleted that comment NINE TIMES and then suspended my account for a day.
My only gay male friend now is a correspondent who lives in Germany (he grew up in America, and I had a crush on him when we were young). He doesn't exactly fit into any of the groups mentioned in the article. But he defends trans people to me -- even though he hates the pronoun crap. He relates to trans people because he remembers what an outcast he felt when he was young, so he relates to any and all outcasts. I keep explaining how trans people are harming society with their ideology, but he dismisses that as unimportant. He certainly isn't a feminist in any way. Indeed, I think he's one of those gay men who only had male friends.
I am still trying to figure out why transgender ideology, dreamed up by the smallest and oddest minority group in the world, has managed to overwhelm the logic of most liberals in society. Somehow, the trans activists have managed to make the ideology addictive -- possibly by portraying themselves as the most pitiful of all pitiful minorities. But that only explains part of it. This is the most illogical trend I have ever seen in my life.
Wonderful that such a get together has been set up. Fabulous. I am willing to bet a lot of money that you won't see an angry mob (or even a single person) of women outside, pretending to be men and demanding entry. Blowing hooters and howling through loud speakers. Which clearly sums up the fetish element in trans identified males claiming to be lesbians who gate crash lesbian events. It would be such a great push against the madness if more gay men spoke out.
Thank you. I can passthis onto my gay friends who are in tbe "Afraid" group. They want to do something but dont know how or where to start. And too often are being pushed by their female relatives to make a stand but work in orgs filled with alfabetti soup people.
This is encouraging news! Good luck with taking the group forward. It would be good to see updates on progress from time to time. Sending loads of best wishes! :)
Good luck with this - particularly in Edinburgh. You’ll do well if the event is not cancelled (as happened to gender critical comedians at the Fringe).
1) Gay male spaces (bars, sex clubs, bathhouses) have been collapsing since the advent of online hookups. It’s been going on since the mid-90’s. That being said, nobody I know will tolerate “queer” in the title of a venue. Men in my circle are also clear that if anything even remotely resembling a trans activist is nearby, the business will lose money from them. Bars with FTM bartenders immediately have declining revenue, seems nobody wants to flirt with a dickless wonder.
2) A friend of mine who owns and manages a gay news site edits out 95% of trans stories from newswires - they kill revenue from ad placement because nobody reads them.
3) No gay men I know of in my generation (born in the 60’s or 70’s) tolerates anti-women trans nonsense. Out of a circle of 100 or so friends, nobody is interested in the shit, and nobody is afraid of calling it out. There is zero chance of social ostracism or violent trannies.
4) Drag queens and Female impersonators I know from clubs aggressively reject trans labels, and dissociate themselves from anything to do with it.
5) Most gay activists of my generation are dead, presumably of HIV. (I have the magic homozygous CCR5 Delta32 mutation rendering me effectively immune). What few remain are not going to the frontline for women, their fightin’ days are over. Few men I know bother with gay pride anymore because it’s viewed as entirely trans now and utterly not representing gay interests.
6) Nobody I know supports HRC or other similar activist organizations anymore because they are perceived as anti-gay trans nests. I think most people are waiting for an implosion.
A new business has opened in Astoria, Oregon, with a big sign in its window saying it sells clothing for "queers and fats," if my memory serves me correctly. I will never darken its door. It is so infuriating that the public does not understand how toxic "queer" is both as a political movement and as a counter-cultural scene.
What do the drag queens and female impersonators you know think about the drag queen story hour phenomenon? And do the people who perform at drag queen story hour tend to be trans or gay?
I'm in my late 60s. I have all of three gay friends. They're members of my generation. Two are therapists who I fear have drunk the trans KoolAid. The other is something of a spiritual seeker, so it's extremely unlikely that he rejects gender identity ideology. Since I live in Portland, it's really doubtful that my handful of acquaintances would be receptive to my gender critical views.
Feel free to consider me an anonymous friend. All men named Ollie are ok in my book. I wrote a brief letter to the NYT today - an article from Charles Blow
===
Offensive Word, Charles Blow
Use of the word “Queer” is as offensive as “Fag” or “Dyke” or the N word to myself and all of my friends. Queer ≠ Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual.
The word is a pejorative applied to our community.
The Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual community I’ve been part of for decades never, ever refers to itself collectively or individually as Queer. It is not Queer rights it’s Gay and Lesbian rights. I am not in a Queer marriage, I am in a gay marriage. The most common word for us everywhere in the world is Gay; even Lesbians are often quite simply referred to as Gay Women.
Not Queer.
The last time I heard it used to my face was when I was spat on and punched in school.
You of all people should understand what that feels like.
===
I wish more would speak out.
“Queer Friendly & Homomophobic” would be a good sticker to use
Thank you for your kind words and for upbraiding the eminent Charles Blow for using the word "queer" in connection with gay people. Well said!
Of course, Blow would do that. As a New York Times columnist and analyst for MSNBC, he needs to show he's with-it on all cultural and social fronts in order to maintain his standing as a progressive among strident progressives. Also, having come out as a bisexual 10 years ago, Blow would be considered queer in queer circles if he didn't queer himself and everyone else in that open-ended alphabet community.
One would think that as a gay man I would be allowed to object to the use of the hegemonic term "queer" as a synonym and substitute for "gay." Not so.
Below you can read the flak I received in the Substack comments about a recent episode of the podcast "Blocked and Reported." As these things go, it could have been a lot worse. It could have been a real pile-on. Still, it was aggravating that I received any pushback from the podcast's predominantly liberal listeners.
The commenters' names have been changed.
Me: Jesse [Singal] should heed his own criticism of Vice [for alienating its audience]. He’s alienating this gay man and others like me every time he slings the word “queer” around to show he’s with it. Stop it.
Bones: What about his usage were you not happy with? I don't remember the context of him saying it.
Me: Jesse used "queer" a couple of times as a catchall term for all sexual and gender minorities as well as queers, whatever they are. That non-inclusive term not only erases gay men, lesbians and bisexuals, it queers them involuntarily.
I am not the only gay man who wants nothing to do with "queer," be it a scene, a trend, an outlook, a philosophy or some other type of notion about sex, sex roles (I reject the contemporary concept of gender) and society. Not my beliefs, not my tribe.
As much as I dislike alphabet terms such as "LGBTQ2SIA+" or even "LGBT" because they imply an allyship that does not exist, they're preferable to "queer" because they lack the latter's potent and, in my view off-putting, political, cultural and ideological connotations.
There was a time when people used the term "sexual minorities" to refer to gays, lesbians and bisexuals." It was well accepted. It would be worth reviving it today, because it would then be possible to refer to "sexual and gender minorities" without entangling the two.
Bones: Are you fighting a language battle? I think queer means all of those things now. The word has changed. Are you trying to take it back or something? By yourself?
Me: It's not a language battle, it's a cultural battle and, to some extent, a generational battle. One might say it's like being gender critical. And I'm not fighting it by myself. I'm not the only gay person who really dislikes "queer." [Host] Katie [Herzog] herself isn't particularly fond of it. I didn't come up with #LGBwithouttheTQ. I stand by what I said. Try engaging with the argument instead of making about me.
Bones: I'm trying to explain to you how you're wrong, you're the one making it about yourself, as if I should care more about your views on top-down language control because of how gay you are.
Me: Well, you’re the one who is wrong because you will not engage with the point that other gay men have the same viewpoint as mine. Goodbye.
Then there was this bit of snark that sought to portray me as a snowflake for criticizing the host's use of the word "queer."
Longstack: Words are violence, do better Jesse.
Me: Yes, and the “words are violence” thing is straight out of the woke Queer playbook.
Wishing you all the very best and I hope you can reclaim the lost ground taken from you by the "gay" ( now TQ++++) charity , Stonewall (et alia). I'm a heterosexual woman but I fully support the rights of LGB people to live their lives uninvaded and unmolested by gender ideologues !! Good luck x
|It is a gay man issue. Consider this - you are approached by a transman (who is really a woman) and you reject her and so now you are the transphobe. x
This is really good news. Great for gay men and for women who see the da gers of Gender Ideology. It will be interesting to see if you attract the trouble women do when they try to organise around this issue. Will the activists have the courage to attempt the intimidation tactics they use on us? I doubt it.
So glad. As an older straight white woman. I feel that we all need to pull together over this rank ideology for mainly one thing - our future children Delighted that our gay friends can meet somewhere, unafraid to say what they think. Good luck all.
Thank you for letting us know this new group has been established, and good luck to all its members.
It's a challenge; the Rainbow Mafia has a wide reach and many people don't understand why many LGBs don't want to be glued to the Ts and Qs. See https://lgballiance.org.uk/dont-call-me-queer/.
Yup, I am in the "don't call me queer" group -- I send out angry emails to any journalist who uses the term.
Great to welcome you guys and good to know that you exist! If you can stop the forced teaming of the Gay successes and goodwill with the bigoted Trans rights grab then you will have made a huge step towards fairness and freedom for everyone. Good luck.
It's heartening to know that these groups are being set up and are growing. For too long a vocal minority are holding the rest of a community to ransom. I hope these groups have more luck than women do when they try to meet.
But all such groups, even though they represent a minority (gay people), are now being referred to as "hate groups". Anyone who doesn't accept gender ideology is being branded a "hater". Even the facts -- like the fact that children are being influenced by trans activists, or that drag has similarities to blackface -- are being referred to as "hate speech". The trans activists have ZERO integrity.
Yes, they are - and individuals are being labelled Nazi's and bigots, which is why I hope these groups, though they may be labelled as hate groups (like the LGB Alliance), have more luck meeting than the women's groups have, and we all know how that goes: assault, intimidation and abuse.
I have to be honest that as a retired person who is now a homebody, I don't go to any meetings that might have protesters. However, I've read about many such incidents -- hysterical trans people or trans sympathizers blocking doors and hollering as if they were being physically attacked. It's so stupid. The efforts of trans people to block an honest discussion of their ideas makes THEM the Nazis!
The irony is not lost on many of us. It's pure intimidation. I hope these groups provide a safe space for gay men to meet and I hope many more are peaked as a result.
I'm in the United States. I am a gay man and an anti-trans activist, so I know all about this. I have had pro-trans gay men call me a "bigot" (what a fucking nerve!). I have seen the gay groups, like GLAAD, overtaken by trans activists. But I can't support a group like HumanGayMale. I prefer to isolate gays in their own group, like the group that calls themselves LGB Alliance. I want the Lesbians in my group (even though some Lesbians seem to hate men).
When I was young, I had both women and gay men as friends. Now in old age, I have fewer friends, but they are still divided between gay men and women.
When I was young and hanging out in Greenwich Village, gay men showed little or no interest in drag queens or cross-gender "women". Now, however (according to what I've read, as I don't go to bars any more), every gay bar is a sanctuary for drag queens and trans people. New York City had its tranny bar, and, to the best of my knowledge, very few gay men went to it.
My reason for being anti-trans has partly to do with supporting women (having concluded during a long life that women, though they are 51% of the population, are the most oppressed group in the world). But another reason is that human society must be based on logical ideas for it to be healthy, and the idea that a man can become a "real" woman by virtue of his feelings is total nonsense.
As an old man with multiple health problems, all of my activism is done on the internet. Most recently I was kicked off the Washington Post (for the second time!) for leaving anti-trans comments on the articles. My comments were always well written and never contained any abusive language, but the moderators nonetheless deleted them frequently. The comment that got deleted the most was the one which said:
"The concept of 'gender identity' was dreamed up by trans people as a way to legitimize themselves in the eyes of the public. What they don't realize is that trans people don't need legitimizing. If you are a man who feels like a woman, or a woman who feels like a man, then that is what you are, and you have a right to exist in society as much as anyone else does. But the idea that your gender identity makes you a real member of the opposite sex is preposterous. Trans people need to stop all the pretending and be honest about what they are."
So even though I acknowledged that trans people have a right to exist, they deleted that comment NINE TIMES and then suspended my account for a day.
My only gay male friend now is a correspondent who lives in Germany (he grew up in America, and I had a crush on him when we were young). He doesn't exactly fit into any of the groups mentioned in the article. But he defends trans people to me -- even though he hates the pronoun crap. He relates to trans people because he remembers what an outcast he felt when he was young, so he relates to any and all outcasts. I keep explaining how trans people are harming society with their ideology, but he dismisses that as unimportant. He certainly isn't a feminist in any way. Indeed, I think he's one of those gay men who only had male friends.
I am still trying to figure out why transgender ideology, dreamed up by the smallest and oddest minority group in the world, has managed to overwhelm the logic of most liberals in society. Somehow, the trans activists have managed to make the ideology addictive -- possibly by portraying themselves as the most pitiful of all pitiful minorities. But that only explains part of it. This is the most illogical trend I have ever seen in my life.
Wonderful that such a get together has been set up. Fabulous. I am willing to bet a lot of money that you won't see an angry mob (or even a single person) of women outside, pretending to be men and demanding entry. Blowing hooters and howling through loud speakers. Which clearly sums up the fetish element in trans identified males claiming to be lesbians who gate crash lesbian events. It would be such a great push against the madness if more gay men spoke out.
All the best.
Thank you. I can passthis onto my gay friends who are in tbe "Afraid" group. They want to do something but dont know how or where to start. And too often are being pushed by their female relatives to make a stand but work in orgs filled with alfabetti soup people.
This is encouraging news! Good luck with taking the group forward. It would be good to see updates on progress from time to time. Sending loads of best wishes! :)
Good luck with this - particularly in Edinburgh. You’ll do well if the event is not cancelled (as happened to gender critical comedians at the Fringe).
Great piece, James and best of luck to the new group
Will cross post
Dusty
1) Gay male spaces (bars, sex clubs, bathhouses) have been collapsing since the advent of online hookups. It’s been going on since the mid-90’s. That being said, nobody I know will tolerate “queer” in the title of a venue. Men in my circle are also clear that if anything even remotely resembling a trans activist is nearby, the business will lose money from them. Bars with FTM bartenders immediately have declining revenue, seems nobody wants to flirt with a dickless wonder.
2) A friend of mine who owns and manages a gay news site edits out 95% of trans stories from newswires - they kill revenue from ad placement because nobody reads them.
3) No gay men I know of in my generation (born in the 60’s or 70’s) tolerates anti-women trans nonsense. Out of a circle of 100 or so friends, nobody is interested in the shit, and nobody is afraid of calling it out. There is zero chance of social ostracism or violent trannies.
4) Drag queens and Female impersonators I know from clubs aggressively reject trans labels, and dissociate themselves from anything to do with it.
5) Most gay activists of my generation are dead, presumably of HIV. (I have the magic homozygous CCR5 Delta32 mutation rendering me effectively immune). What few remain are not going to the frontline for women, their fightin’ days are over. Few men I know bother with gay pride anymore because it’s viewed as entirely trans now and utterly not representing gay interests.
6) Nobody I know supports HRC or other similar activist organizations anymore because they are perceived as anti-gay trans nests. I think most people are waiting for an implosion.
Can you ask your friend to get in touch?
A new business has opened in Astoria, Oregon, with a big sign in its window saying it sells clothing for "queers and fats," if my memory serves me correctly. I will never darken its door. It is so infuriating that the public does not understand how toxic "queer" is both as a political movement and as a counter-cultural scene.
What do the drag queens and female impersonators you know think about the drag queen story hour phenomenon? And do the people who perform at drag queen story hour tend to be trans or gay?
I'm in my late 60s. I have all of three gay friends. They're members of my generation. Two are therapists who I fear have drunk the trans KoolAid. The other is something of a spiritual seeker, so it's extremely unlikely that he rejects gender identity ideology. Since I live in Portland, it's really doubtful that my handful of acquaintances would be receptive to my gender critical views.
Feel free to consider me an anonymous friend. All men named Ollie are ok in my book. I wrote a brief letter to the NYT today - an article from Charles Blow
===
Offensive Word, Charles Blow
Use of the word “Queer” is as offensive as “Fag” or “Dyke” or the N word to myself and all of my friends. Queer ≠ Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual.
The word is a pejorative applied to our community.
The Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual community I’ve been part of for decades never, ever refers to itself collectively or individually as Queer. It is not Queer rights it’s Gay and Lesbian rights. I am not in a Queer marriage, I am in a gay marriage. The most common word for us everywhere in the world is Gay; even Lesbians are often quite simply referred to as Gay Women.
Not Queer.
The last time I heard it used to my face was when I was spat on and punched in school.
You of all people should understand what that feels like.
===
I wish more would speak out.
“Queer Friendly & Homomophobic” would be a good sticker to use
Good discussion.
We should make a book on queer abuse of gay men.
Thank you for your kind words and for upbraiding the eminent Charles Blow for using the word "queer" in connection with gay people. Well said!
Of course, Blow would do that. As a New York Times columnist and analyst for MSNBC, he needs to show he's with-it on all cultural and social fronts in order to maintain his standing as a progressive among strident progressives. Also, having come out as a bisexual 10 years ago, Blow would be considered queer in queer circles if he didn't queer himself and everyone else in that open-ended alphabet community.
One would think that as a gay man I would be allowed to object to the use of the hegemonic term "queer" as a synonym and substitute for "gay." Not so.
Below you can read the flak I received in the Substack comments about a recent episode of the podcast "Blocked and Reported." As these things go, it could have been a lot worse. It could have been a real pile-on. Still, it was aggravating that I received any pushback from the podcast's predominantly liberal listeners.
The commenters' names have been changed.
Me: Jesse [Singal] should heed his own criticism of Vice [for alienating its audience]. He’s alienating this gay man and others like me every time he slings the word “queer” around to show he’s with it. Stop it.
Bones: What about his usage were you not happy with? I don't remember the context of him saying it.
Me: Jesse used "queer" a couple of times as a catchall term for all sexual and gender minorities as well as queers, whatever they are. That non-inclusive term not only erases gay men, lesbians and bisexuals, it queers them involuntarily.
I am not the only gay man who wants nothing to do with "queer," be it a scene, a trend, an outlook, a philosophy or some other type of notion about sex, sex roles (I reject the contemporary concept of gender) and society. Not my beliefs, not my tribe.
As much as I dislike alphabet terms such as "LGBTQ2SIA+" or even "LGBT" because they imply an allyship that does not exist, they're preferable to "queer" because they lack the latter's potent and, in my view off-putting, political, cultural and ideological connotations.
There was a time when people used the term "sexual minorities" to refer to gays, lesbians and bisexuals." It was well accepted. It would be worth reviving it today, because it would then be possible to refer to "sexual and gender minorities" without entangling the two.
Bones: Are you fighting a language battle? I think queer means all of those things now. The word has changed. Are you trying to take it back or something? By yourself?
Me: It's not a language battle, it's a cultural battle and, to some extent, a generational battle. One might say it's like being gender critical. And I'm not fighting it by myself. I'm not the only gay person who really dislikes "queer." [Host] Katie [Herzog] herself isn't particularly fond of it. I didn't come up with #LGBwithouttheTQ. I stand by what I said. Try engaging with the argument instead of making about me.
Bones: I'm trying to explain to you how you're wrong, you're the one making it about yourself, as if I should care more about your views on top-down language control because of how gay you are.
Me: Well, you’re the one who is wrong because you will not engage with the point that other gay men have the same viewpoint as mine. Goodbye.
Then there was this bit of snark that sought to portray me as a snowflake for criticizing the host's use of the word "queer."
Longstack: Words are violence, do better Jesse.
Me: Yes, and the “words are violence” thing is straight out of the woke Queer playbook.
Good luck with your group. I hope it flourishes. I have sent this to my gay male friend in an 'apathetic category'. One can only hope.
Wishing you all the very best and I hope you can reclaim the lost ground taken from you by the "gay" ( now TQ++++) charity , Stonewall (et alia). I'm a heterosexual woman but I fully support the rights of LGB people to live their lives uninvaded and unmolested by gender ideologues !! Good luck x
|It is a gay man issue. Consider this - you are approached by a transman (who is really a woman) and you reject her and so now you are the transphobe. x
This is really good news. Great for gay men and for women who see the da gers of Gender Ideology. It will be interesting to see if you attract the trouble women do when they try to organise around this issue. Will the activists have the courage to attempt the intimidation tactics they use on us? I doubt it.