29 Comments

People are increasingly aware of young lesbians getting damaged by the trans movement, but there are also high numbers of women like this girl who are male-attracted (both bi- and het) getting sold the lie that they can turn into 'gay bois'. Often lured by the promise of escape from hated privilege (a KEY factor in ID'ing as trans for many) or wanting to become cool instead of boring old het or slightly suspect bi through joining LGBT via the 'queer' club. Instant ticket out of privilege! All the more appealing for self-hating white girls. (Yay identity politics.)

Yet the sad reality is woefully reduced prospects for finding partners, let alone love, and all the no-return physical damage to sexual function, fertility and all the rest if they chase hormones and surgeries. It's appalling. What a lie they're all being sold.

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"making some bullshit excuse to go hit on another guy."

It sounds like they were trying to be nice.

This is a heartbreaking story, both because of the distress of this woman in particular and for the generation of women who are being taught to believe the same lie. To come out of that situation feeling that there's something wrong with the men who just wanted to fuck each other and not with the belief that they were obliged to accept and validate a trans man they didn't even know shows how strongly these lies can take hold.

We have a lot of work to do.

You should definitely watch the interview with Mr.menno, it's spot on.

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"Queer" fantasy world meets reality.

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Many years ago I was part of a gay/lesbian writing group (TMI: I'm bi, but nobody ever asked and if I remember rightly, at that time I didn't think I was. I was still a Roman Catholic virgin in any case).

We met in the back room of a gay pub, which was very welcoming.

However, there was one regular, a woman who insisted she was a gay man and expected to be regarded as such.

She was pretty much ostracised by the men there, having hit on many of them, and would not speak to the women at all - including the bar staff, including when she was waiting to be served and they asked for her order.

I guess she was an outlier way back then (early-to-mid 80s). I don't know what happened to her.

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Seems the slew of fantastical stories on social media platforms is starkly different to the realities of real life

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Just watched the video with Mr Menno, what an articulate and generally all round lovely gay man he comes across as. If he reads this, thanks for the interview, the song and the being on board, yours is a very welcome voice!

He looked familiar and I now remember he had come to Speakers Corner one Sunday last March as part of a Standing For Women event (last thing I went to before lockdown started).

Also, alongside the legendary Arty (and I know there are others) I want to shout out for James Dreyfus who has been another particularly loud gay male voice on social media in this area (and would love to see him on The Mess We’re In if he were up for it).

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Agreed on all points!

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James Dreyfus is on The Mess we’re in tomorrow I believe!

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It's almost impossible for people with a grasp of reality to even imagine this level of self delusion, but it clearly must exist. For those poor souls who actually manage to convince themselves that they will ever be accepted as the opposite sex, this is yet another reason not to encourage their mental illness. To encourage this is so cruel.

Trans identified women are women, always, not men of any stripe. And nobody owes you sex or attraction or validation of your fantasy. I don't often feel sorry for men, to be honest, but I did feel a bit sorry for the gay men in this story. Trying to be polite to a woman who just did not belong there.

I wonder what was going on with her "friend". With her level of delusion (a lot of trans identified persons show personality disorder traits such as BPD) it's perfectly possible that she is an unreliable narrator, that she ignores boundaries and doesn't hear "no", that her friend wasn't nearly as encouraging as she believes. It's impossible to tell if he was just taking the piss, or she misread the situation and forced her way in there, or even if he is genuinely as delusional as she is.

What a desperate and truly sad story. The poor woman. In today's world she is unlikely to get any real help. Encouraging misconceptions and magical thinking helps nobody at all.

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Yes it's self delusional, but please remember what a high proportion of those who end up getting referred for 'gender treatment' are on the autism spectrum, rather than BPD (that too). Vulnerable to suggestion, struggling with personal identity, uncomfortable with ill-fitting gender roles, grateful for a seemingly welcoming 'community' (er, cult) where they're given a seeming explanation for why they feel different and a template to follow that promises greater comfort about their non-conformity. Put those together with the toxic influence of virtue-seeking 'allies' who will pride themselves on 'affirming' (grooming) and assisting vulnerable people along their 'trans journey'... Appalling.

Yes, encouraging profoundly damaging delusion helps no one. I agree that we can't be sure of her account of her friend. But the groomers (this even includes schools and therapists, as things stand!), the self-serving 'allies' eager to sow and reinforce trans identities, here as a 'gay boi', are the ones who deserve our real contempt.

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I didn't offer any contempt. Pity, definitely, questions, yes, but no contempt.

Thank you but I am extremely aware of all the reasons people (and in particular females) decide to delusionally identify as trans, as we have an extended female family member who has been gobbled up by the trans cult. I may possibly be the best educated layperson in Australia on the subject of why people who larp as the opposite sex do so, particularly females.

However, my comment referred to what was on hand. Since it wasn't mentioned, implied or even inferred that the woman is on the autistic spectrum, I didn't assume she was. Since identifying as trans is, in itself, a mental illness (just as any other sort of psychosis is a mental illness) it is often linked with a number of other mental health issues, which I mentioned in the original comment.

I also have a family member who is on the autistic spectrum. He would be insulted out of all measure, deeply offended indeed if he thought that he being autistic was in any way being linked with being a transologist. So I don't assume anyone who is delusionally identifying as trans is autistic, unless I am given evidence for that, as I have no wish to insult people on the autistic spectrum.

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And ultimately, anyway, it doesn't matter really why they are delusional, only that they are. It should matter to the people who are supposed to be helping them, though clearly it doesn't. It matters to me the reasons why my young adult stepdaughter is harming herself, because that affects how we approach the subject (or don't).

And to the general public, it only matters that the attempts to strip women of their sex based human rights are halted, that we repair any damage done to human rights protections for women (such as getting all men out of female prisons, getting men out of women's sports and preventing boys and men from accessing women's toilets etc).

It also matters that societies in all parts of the globe stop encouraging this self harm amongst unwell people, whatever the reasons these poor souls are delusional about their bodies.

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A little surprised at the personal interpretation of my post, and construing me not to be on the side of autistic people (!) but I was overtired so perhaps didn't phrase things well. It may have seemed personally directed when I was trying to make general points, especially about autistic young people being overrepresented in the gender cult (see below) and secondarily about the role of 'friends' in encouraging people toward delusional beliefs, especially where they lead to physical and mental harms.

We seem to share views on a lot, but it is really important that people become far more aware of the massive overrepresentation of autistic teens and children now getting referred to gender clinics. 

GIDS whistleblower David Bell (former staff governor at the Tavistock, past president of British Psychoanalytic Society) reiterated in his recent Channel 4 interview about the Keira Bell case that "35 to 40 percent of these children are on the autistic spectrum."  Thirty-five to forty percent, whereas only one in a hundred children in the UK has an autism diagnosis (BMA). Clearly that's an absolutely massive overrepresentation. 

Autistic young people are being disproportionately drawn into re-interpreting themselves as trans, with all the harms that too often follow on from that. It is not a question of whether or not someone might find that fact 'offensive' or 'insulting', it's simply a fact, and we need way more people to become aware of it, and to care. Causes need to be effectively examined, guidelines and proper protections set in place for the benefit of the large numbers of ASD young people, alongside others, now being damaged by this cult. 

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I replied to your reply to my comment politely and focused on what you had said, specifically. There was no personal "iinterpretation" I simply read your words and replied to them.

I didn't construe you as not being on the side of autistic people, nor did I imply it.

I said that I (me not you) do not assume anyone is autistic because they are in the cult of trans. And again, since this post is about a young woman whom I have no reason to believe is autistic, I discused her and my views on the situation. I did not in any way address the issue of people on the autistic spectrum.

As I already stated, I am well aware of all the reasons why people become transologists.

You are making comments that are not relevant to what I said, making interpretations rather than relying on what I have said, and arguing against comments I have not made.

Since the aspect of autistic persons being co-opted into the trans cult is of great importance to you I would suggest you comment on a post, or comment that relates to that.

My comment was not related to that, nor was the article. You are perfectly free to make whatever comments you wish, of course. But I would rather you stopped making comments at me about issues which I have not raised, nor argued against and about which I am already perfectly well informed.

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Honestly, your comments come across as passive aggressive. I can't see how you could misconstrue TJ37's comments into something you take personal offence to, then take it upon yourself to feel offended on behalf of autistic people. I'm autistic and I know how tragic it is that young girls are vulnerable to this cult. Denying the reality of harm to autistic people won't make it go away.

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No, they don't. I misconstrued nothing and responded specifically to what had been said to me in clear and polite tones.

Stop taking things personally, stop projecting, move on.

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Precisely that.

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Thank you. (Grateful to be uncomplicatedly understood, at this point!)

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That's kind of why these poor people are doomed to fail, their insistence on other people validating them. You just cannot control other people to that extent, your self-acceptance has to be reliant on you. The attempts to control other people and scare the world into saying "Yes, you're definitely [whichever] sex", is where the most toxic TRA stuff comes from.

It was also one of my peak moments when I realised that trans-identified women would be going through stuff like this, while we women were falling over ourselves to make trans-identified men feel that they were just like us.

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I’m sorry to say but I find this funny, in a tragic way. Young people today are so removed from reality it’s at the same time both tragic and rofl. “Like a deer in the headlights” - yes, of course they were. “Recoiled“ - of course they did, they were there to have sexy fun with other men.

I’m bi and I would be too if at a lesbian party I’d see a naked male!

And I can tell you I’ve seen trans men and trans women at lesbian sauna clubs and they were avoided by everyone when it came to more intimate stuff, though everyone would have talked the “inclusivity” talk. More, we were given this talk by the organisers, every single time. Not that I saw them walking the walk, so to speak.

I’m sorry for them but it’s just like evolution has not made us be attacked to mixed sex characteristics in the same person, even if we’re bi! Who would have thought!

The desperation was so big that the only trans woman there, that I’ve seen once or twice, took to “discreetly “ arrange her towel so to show he had the bottom operation done. I still didn’t see any “takers”.

I also remember the trans men (supposedly “straight “, yes?!, what were they doing at a lesbian party?) looking constantly pissed off and staying together.

***

I miss the writing posts, are they coming back soon? Thanks

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"Mr Gay England: The trans man competing 'against an idea of male beauty' - BBC News" https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/newsbeat-53936529. She got worse.

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Looking forward to watching the video with Mr Menno, whose videos and interviews I adore. Hi Menno! Hope you're well. Sending best wishes from the USA.

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A dispatch from the Department of Duh.

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What was this woman thinking? she is seriously deluded if she thought she could gatecrash a male sex party. It isn’t fair for them to be made uncomfortable in their own space. She basically ruined their party.

One of my brothers was gay (bear)and used to tell me a little of what went on at these parties. I never really wanted to know the full details !! But I do remember him telling me that it was always just gay guys, no women.

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Well, Graham, I am done with the comment section. I appreciate free speech a great deal, but when it means you have to be talked at continually by people who half-read comments, interpret them through the lens of emotion and then try to argue against words you didn't write with no grasp of critical analysis, and you cannot even block them from endlessly kvetching at you, it can be very wearing, and frankly dull.

If this is the level of discourse against the juggernaut of transology, I am unsurprised we are struggling. Logic and rationality just isn't that difficult, or at least I don't find it so.

Interperation through an emotional lens, appeals to emotion, appeals to imagined authority, projection, ad hominems, so many logical fallacies going on.

It's kind of amusing, in an awful sort of way, how difficult it is for some to just stick to the feckin subject. Not project, not add their own interpetation, not argue against something nobody said, not lecture on another topic. And we're supposed to be the good guys. I never did get around to joining shenanigans, and that's probably not a bad thing, I can only imagine it's the same story there.

I am more than ever grateful to have the skills to argue logically, assertively and without resorting to logical fallacies and emotional projection. But I admit freely that I do not have the patience to have sticky fingered emotional outbursts wiped all over my comments in a seemingly endless flow of irrelevant complaining. It's like talking to teenagers, and I've done enough of that :)

Anyway, I will keep the subscription up, because you ARE one of the good guys. I won't keep reading your posts, even though they really are excellent, because there's a lot of really distressing stuff. In order to tolerate and release the emotions these posts bring up I have to be able to speak and comment in good faith with good faith discussion. And that is just not happening. It's not the first time either, there was the one who tried to tone police me and the man who was abusive to me after I defended a woman he was attacking. And again, no way to even block the dimwitted, which I realise is not your fault of course.

Still, I'd rather have free speech, even if that means reading comments by nincompoops :) But I simply cannot be arsed putting up with nincompoopery at this point in my life. I am assertive and rational in my comments, and I find people who feel they must express hurty wurty feelpinions based on nothing I have actually said dreary and exhausting.

So, good luck with it all, and good luck with this lot ;) You have my email, if you need any extra assistance for a crowd funder, or if there is anything else I can offer feel free to email me and ask. Take care, you're a good man. Please keep fighting the good fight.

A

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It's so sad isn't it. Also known as gay men.

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