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I am a psychotherapist working with children and have just completed the Government consultation on banning conversion therapy, closing DECEMBER 10TH

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/banning-conversion-therapy

(sorry - not sure why I am unable to make this into a link)

My main points were:

There is no proper definition of conversion therapy in the consultation document.

LGB conversion therapy is abhorrent and needs to be considered separately from 'T conversion therapy'.

Children are still developing and need to be understood in this context, as well as their family context. They are not 'little adults' but need space and time to explore. As parts of family systems they may, for example be expressing the wishes of a parent rather than a fully thought out understanding of their own.

Children experiencing gender dysphoria need a full multi-disciplinary assessment when presenting with any sort of distress. Their parents or carers also need to be included in the assessment and given support.

No talking therapy should have a particular agenda beyond increasing understanding in order to relieve distress. There is a risk that proposed changes will inhibit therapists from anything but a superficial 'affirmative' approach.

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Great points and very glad you raised them as part of the consultation. I think I read, that people only really gain a true stable sense of self and who they are when they reach their late twenties / early thirties as part of human development? If my recall is correct then there is no way a child or adolescent could possibly know if theya re trans or not, or merely going through some sort of crisis bought on by peer pressure, parental pressure, societal expectations etc. Parents seem to be falling over themselves to validate anything their kids say as the absolute truth.

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yes and those of us with frontal lobe issues (ahem) might not reach it until much later. I was brainwashed twice in my life, briefly at 15 by a christian charismatic church - with speaking in tongues and everything) and again at 40 by transgender ideology. I think now finally my brain may have reached maturity.

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Thank you. I will use your points, if I may.

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Thank you Ursula. Of course.

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In August 2020 I made three requests of Pink News' Chief Executive Liar Benjamin Cohen that he update Victoria Parsons' breathlessly reported bullshit to include the refutation of the bogus suicide data by numerous clinicians and the fact that the claimants backed down from their bullshit while under scientific fire. Naturally, Ben stuck with the lie.

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A fantastic thread read.

I'm so pissed at how they've changed what constitutes conversion therapy to mislead the public on their intentions of making it illegal to suggest that some children may just be same sex attracted and not actually trans.

They sit on a throne of lies by distorting language and changing definitions of words--makingnit so it's hard for us to even talk about.

I've noticedately they are conflating the terms homophobic and transphobic; effectually calling lesbians and gays who are GC homophobic.

We live in opposite land and it's infuriating and exhausting to try to refute their infantile bullshit

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*Noticed

*Lately

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There is an imperceptible barrier between (1) a psychiatrist "understanding" his patient's mental disorder and (2) the same psychiatrist upholding the "right" of that mental patient to assert his/her delusion/dissociation/psychosis as valid and a reality.

That vanishingly thin barrier is called the "integrity of a medical professional" and desire to protect both the patient AND the general public.

I maintain that ALL the medical professionals (whether in psychiatry/psychology or in physical medicine) dealing with GD have acted totally unprofessionally and abandoned any notion which they might once have had of this subtle but vital distinction.

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I should make clear that the mental patient's assertion may be real to the patient, but certainly not to the general public. It is the psychiatrist's job to make this distinction.

Another way of expressing this: GD psychiatrists are too close to their patients.

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did you see the Youtube video put out by a young man named Isaac recently? he confronts his gender therapist and it’s really something to watch.

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he says “you allowed me to dance around in my delusion”

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Yes. It's posted on the "Our Duty" website. https://ourduty.group/2021/10/28/a-detransitioner-confronts-his-therapist/

I think that "Isaac" is a detransitioning young woman (who has had surgery to her arm). In her quiet, testosterone-lowered voice she is devastating in her attacks on the unfeeling, untrained "gender therapist".

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I don't think so. Isaac is a male who took estrogen; he didn't want to age as a man and he grew breasts.

What interests me about this recording is that Isaac, as emotional as he is, nearly in tears, is far more articulate than his so-called therapist. The therapist stumbles over her words and really has nothing to say. This is where quality counseling can be of far more help than "therapy," if the counselor is willing to set forth practical advice and direction. Lazy therapists are all too willing to put clients on drugs, in this case hormones.

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Yes, I agree. I apologize for my mistake. Not sure what the arm surgery is about.... Doesn't matter.

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No apology needed. I think he just required some sort of surgery, hopefully not from trying to commit suicide.

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That is the most devastating thing I have ever seen or listened to about this. It should be posted everywhere. That therapist is psychotic in her refusal to deal with the young person's reality. Throughout the whole exchange she is doing nothing but covering her arse - the most caluclating, cold impervious, lying bitch ever. Disgusting doesn't cover it. I'm not in the better of having listened to it. But thank you so much for sharing it, everyone - EVERYONE - needs to hear this.

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Sorry to say she is far more typical of therapists in the gender-affirming racket than people realise.

Yes, it is shocking. The fall of the gender house of cards can't come soon enough.

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This has got to be the most gaslit we have ever been. This huge effort to 'ban' conversion therapy is the exact opposite. If the legislation is passed we will have unfettered 'affirmative' care. Many gay children, teenagers and unhappy adults will be converted instead to a different sex identity, being sterilised along the way. My take on it for Broadsheet.ie https://www.broadsheet.ie/2021/11/15/gender-questioning/

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Terrific article

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Thank you Catherine.

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I knew some of this already. I have 2 transsexual friends who grew up in pastor families in the Bible Belt in the USA. They were gay at a time when homosexuality was against the law. Under family pressure, they went to Argentina for surgery, knowing it was Nazis who were doing it, but thinking they had no other way of living their lives. They know they are men presenting as women. One still lives as a woman abd passes as a 70+woman who is a bit dotty. The other looks like a butch woman but now lives as a gay man, as he should have throughout his life. I have known both for 50 years being introduced to them by my mother who met them at work. If things had been different, I would never have met them as they would be gay men living in the USA. Not much has changed in the last 50 years has it?

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I don't affirm my children if they say they have tummy ache. I observe, assess against past experience, and ask questions appropriate to their age. Only then do I decide if some treatment is necessary. That is the minimum duty of care a parent owes a child. I am definitely not going to affirm some half-wit claim that they have been the victim of negligent storks dropping in the wrong soul for their bodies,. Any parent or other person with a duty of care towards children that does so needs to be investigated and, possibly, prosecuted. I look forward to the time that all the pain and distress that these parents and professionals have caused is visited back on them.

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Very nicely put

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Thank you.

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Very well put. The only observation I'd make is that it appears to me more a case of "negligent storks dropping souls into the wrong body" from the way these people talk about it. Sorry to split hairs, I absolutely agree with your overall point.

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There are a multitude of things that we require our children to be of age of consent to do. It is baffling to me that gender identity should be given a pass on this, especially the medicalization and surgery aspect. A child cannot possibly predict what they might want to have available as options when they grow up, and it is our job to try our best to leave those options open. Irreversible hormones and surgery removes quite a lot of options as it goes. Waiting to transition means the choice is still there. It doesn't mean it can't ever or won't happen. Maybe that's what these zealous proponents are afraid of, that very few will actually choose to transition if required to wait and their movement (£$£$) loses impetus.

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aside from the inevitable health problems, nobody is talking about the financial fallout for these children when they reach adulthood, having invested all their time in this project, which will force them to be dependent on the medical industry for the rest of their lives. maybe it’s fine for the ultra wealthy but as a borderline middle class parent it’s really not feasible to be paying for all the stuff that’s coming down the line. and My kid doesn’t have a trust fund to rely on if she’s out of work because her bladder no longer functions or some other fun complication

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I think this a point I will bring up more often, when talking to my ethically vacant friends, because they do at least care about money.

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Ethically vacant - good phrase.

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The best kind of sale is where you can add on some 'extras' or hidden or unknown costs that became apparent after the sale is completed. Fudged or no real contracts. Memberships, with a small initial outlay that rack up month after month and year after year, and by that time, you're out of time and finding those accountable is difficult. It's like a continuous payment authority to do further harm. The lack of follow up from Psych services is exactly what cowboy fly-by-night builders and 'traders' do until caught. Can't we get a BBC trading standards tv show on this?

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This - don't wait! You'll miss out! It's classic pressure selling techniques - bamboozle with information and numbers and the benefits, then close the deal before a person can realise or back out. Counter, counter, counter, rush, rush, don't miss out, I'm your friend, I want the best for you, limited time deal yada yada yada!! That's illegal and there are regulations to prevent this in many sectors, so maybe parts of those laws can be used to counter this ideology. In the NHS.

Pressure sales tactics are ethics free zones too. This is consumer rights.

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Also, they need to go through puberty and their brain needs to finish growing, to reach full maturity. This is now thought to take to the age of 25.

https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=1&ContentID=3051

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Thank you Úrsula. This has such wide-ranging implications. We need to create and build our environments and policy to accommodate this. Younger people are over represented in some outcomes, and rather than blame them for the consequences there's been lots of research into the 'teenage brain'. Not only are children physically smaller (implications for gender reassignment operations and available 'matter' to 'work with') but they may not have the cognitive abilities or social awareness that some arbitrary you're an 'adult' at 16/17/18/21 label them as having.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/pals/research/experimental-psychology/event/young-driver-focus-2017/

And we've known this at exactly the same time social media has been denying they target those under 25. Or lobby groups reframed it as a 'rights' issue. They have exactly the same evidence and research as we do, and have the funds to do more of it.

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Agree with you. I can't understand why these neurologists etc researching the teenage brain, aren't making much more of a fuss, pushing back against the whole early affirmation model. It is so wrong.

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Plus the fact that reaching brain maturity around aged 25 is how it works for neurotypicals but not for neuroatypicals (on the autism spectrum, ADHD etc.), whose brains are still not emotionally/socially mature then.

That the lives of so many young ASD/ADHD people are being so profoundly harmed, so derailed by the whole gender racket and all who cheer it on, with so little actual care for them, is just... I'll go with nauseating and enraging.

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Yes, nauseating. Wilfully blind.

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Thank you, Malcolm. This is one of the very best threads I've ever read on this subject.

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Excellent Malcolm..did anyone tune in to the HoL debate yesterday? WOW! The majority gave such fab speeches and then you get Shami saying she wouldn't feel "safe" in a lift with a "cis" woman who was convicted of assault but she "would" with a twans..

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Shami formerly of the Parish of Liberty Shami? I used to respect her.

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It's an unpleasant watch. She clearly views others as beneath her. Men, women and those with DSD are speaking out. I appreciate it when men speak up on my behalf - in particular when I am being drowned out. Here's a transcript and it's a corker:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2021-11-15a.98.4

She said:

'I suggest to the noble Lord that in the hypothetical lift I would be at far greater risk from the white supremacist with previous convictions. This is not a total hypothetical, because this has happened in male prisons where non-white offenders have been murdered by fellow cis males—that being the term for people born and always a man—because of a lack of diligence about the offending and attitudinal profile of a person.'

No the term for men is men and the term for women is women. There are also men who live as women and vice versa. It is not misgendering to insist on existing terms. And calling me 'cis' is not how I describe myself. I think she was schooled on that.

Shame on you Shami. And I'm not sure why she is so confused about men's violence - whether that be against women or against men. It's still men's violence? I think her point about non-white offenders murdered by fellow 'cis' males is laughably weak. This hypothetical lift is intriguing. Not like an actual prison.

And is she comparing gender critical women to white supremacists? White supremacists with previous convictions? That's bold. I guess when 'attitudes' like women believing they are women and not believing in gender woowoo are deemed 'offensive' and 'criminal' although not officially criminal as they aren't this is understandable. Unofficially criminalish. And she has a say in the laws in the UK? Is she trying to stir up race hatred too? No wonder Lord Blencathra looked quizzical.

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"All gender identities are valid. Even ones that change over time."

- Jack Turban

And with that, he just shut down his practice.

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I can grok why corporations want to make money from selling this atrocity, but I have a harder time grasping how ordinary people can't see the harm they are doing to the kids they are "treating." Here's the ad copy for one local pediatric endocrinologist who is making a killing poisoning gay and lesbian kids...mostly the girls, since they are the ones who have been targeted by this social contagion. She has such a pretty face. You'd never suspect she's a ghoul. https://cme.dmu.edu/system/files/DMU%20Gender%20Nonconforming%20Children%202019.pdf

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I sent her a query: Why do you not have a CURRENT photograph of Jazz Jennings on your website?

And plenty of ghouls are pretty or handsome; that's how they reel in the non-skeptical. (Women let Ted Bundy into their houses, probably because he was nice-looking.)

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I hope she answers. Some interesting research on gendery type stuff and how algorithms, computers and humans assess faces. Like this one

https://isis-data.science.uva.nl/cgmsnoek/pub/thong-image-classifier-bias-bmvc2021.pdf

The references are a good read too :-). Roll up! Roll up! Phrenology 2021! Except some bumps are a bit of a giveaway. And how does your height affect your journey through life? Shorter man? Or taller woman? And in which country?

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The office person couldn't find a photo, so I sent the one from People magazine. And told her I hope her bosses aka ghouls get sued big-time.

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What on earth does THIS mean?!

"The only organ that conclusively determines gender is the brain" (second slide). !!!

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Yes, it's bollocks, isn't it?

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She and her colleagues at the Iowa City Gender Enforcement Temple are all grifters.

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It's true in the sense that gender (as opposed to sex) is a set of stereotypes that exist only in the mind. Beyond that, it's crap.

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Hi Graham, I would like to forward your email in its entirety to my MP (with links etc). Is that OK? Or alternatively do you know of a more succint document which has been prepared for MPs, to feed in to the debates over this Bill? Many thanks.

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author

no please do!

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*succinct. Can't spell!

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Thank you Malcolm. I look at all the '1' listed in that report, and see they do cover the weaknesses of their methodology. Is that '1' interviewee one of the '3'. I wonder if the 1 is the same 1 'other ('same-sex attracted')' when they don't list sex they list gender. How can you be same-sex attracted when 'sex' has been lost as a category. What does that mean now? Same yet other? And are they the same 1 as the 1 'Gaian'. It's very common to have people putting random labels on themselves, or insisting on their own words to describe their own selves, behaviours or beliefs on official forms. Same with 'does not apply to me'. Or Jedi. This happens with form-filling and box-ticking. And some people lie, or play with it and see it as something to try to break, like 'breaking the system'. As the census got a little confused about.

And why would a Government base policy on one person who self-declares as 'other' and answer this to many questions. Some people like to 'other' themselves for a host of reasons and to make a point, political or otherwise. Some will reject others and society. Or labels. We are atomising ourselves into smaller and smaller pixels to argue against each other.

I am not cisgender and not any 'gender' so therefore would my opinions be excluded from that 'research'? How did they choose and approach these interviewees? How self-selecting was this? Oh look, they tell us 'social media, contacting a range of stakeholder organisations (for example, LGBT, religious and healthcare) and fliers at several Pride festivals'.

Nice to know what the UK Government Equalities Hub and Government Equalities Office think.

Oh no, 'The findings and recommendations are those of the authors and do not represent the views of GEO or government policy'. Nice and clear (???!!).

I feel I am drowning in a bath of 'conversion therapy' telling me I am not allowed to use the word sex and same-sex attraction doesn't exist. But in case they are not 'aware' many are not welcomed into the 'groups' they approached. There are so many detransitioners brave enough to speak up, was that not part of this 'study'? It's not mentioned at all. Neither is transition? Because books don't count. Not matter how well researched.

Again, how do you have sexual attraction, sexual behaviour or sexual identity without sex, not gender. And they do know Psychology is different from and to Psychiatry don't they?

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*No matter

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wow, what a story!

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It's not clear who wrote this, but there's an issue with it that immediately jumped out at me.

Once persons under discussion have been introduced by their full names and titles in a piece of journalism and similar writing, it's standard style to refer to them by their last name when they're mentioned again. Upon second reference, males in this piece, Magnus Hirschfeld and Jack Turban, are called Hirschfeld and Turban, not Magnus and Jack. But the one female, Reed Erickson, is repeatedly called Reed, not Erickson. Why the double standard?

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