(sorry - not sure why I am unable to make this into a link)
My main points were:
There is no proper definition of conversion therapy in the consultation document.
LGB conversion therapy is abhorrent and needs to be considered separately from 'T conversion therapy'.
Children are still developing and need to be understood in this context, as well as their family context. They are not 'little adults' but need space and time to explore. As parts of family systems they may, for example be expressing the wishes of a parent rather than a fully thought out understanding of their own.
Children experiencing gender dysphoria need a full multi-disciplinary assessment when presenting with any sort of distress. Their parents or carers also need to be included in the assessment and given support.
No talking therapy should have a particular agenda beyond increasing understanding in order to relieve distress. There is a risk that proposed changes will inhibit therapists from anything but a superficial 'affirmative' approach.
In August 2020 I made three requests of Pink News' Chief Executive Liar Benjamin Cohen that he update Victoria Parsons' breathlessly reported bullshit to include the refutation of the bogus suicide data by numerous clinicians and the fact that the claimants backed down from their bullshit while under scientific fire. Naturally, Ben stuck with the lie.
I'm so pissed at how they've changed what constitutes conversion therapy to mislead the public on their intentions of making it illegal to suggest that some children may just be same sex attracted and not actually trans.
They sit on a throne of lies by distorting language and changing definitions of words--makingnit so it's hard for us to even talk about.
I've noticedately they are conflating the terms homophobic and transphobic; effectually calling lesbians and gays who are GC homophobic.
We live in opposite land and it's infuriating and exhausting to try to refute their infantile bullshit
There is an imperceptible barrier between (1) a psychiatrist "understanding" his patient's mental disorder and (2) the same psychiatrist upholding the "right" of that mental patient to assert his/her delusion/dissociation/psychosis as valid and a reality.
That vanishingly thin barrier is called the "integrity of a medical professional" and desire to protect both the patient AND the general public.
I maintain that ALL the medical professionals (whether in psychiatry/psychology or in physical medicine) dealing with GD have acted totally unprofessionally and abandoned any notion which they might once have had of this subtle but vital distinction.
This is a perfect storm of the most powerful man in the country taking his lead from Stonewall (and his wife) and refusing to listen to other opinions, and the most trusted news outlet in the country being too scared to report this stuff.
If this swivel-eyed nonsense was explained in the mainstream media, and if Johnson and his wife didn't buy into it like credulous idiots, it would be just another pastime for fringe lunatics along with burning down 5G masts.
Not that I'd expect anything else from Johnson - he's never shown any core belief in anything other than his own career advancement, but it's a stunning dereliction of journalistic duty by the BBC. You seriously have to wonder what it's for if it can deliberately ignore this level of threat to the safeguarding of women and kids.
This has got to be the most gaslit we have ever been. This huge effort to 'ban' conversion therapy is the exact opposite. If the legislation is passed we will have unfettered 'affirmative' care. Many gay children, teenagers and unhappy adults will be converted instead to a different sex identity, being sterilised along the way. My take on it for Broadsheet.iehttps://www.broadsheet.ie/2021/11/15/gender-questioning/
I knew some of this already. I have 2 transsexual friends who grew up in pastor families in the Bible Belt in the USA. They were gay at a time when homosexuality was against the law. Under family pressure, they went to Argentina for surgery, knowing it was Nazis who were doing it, but thinking they had no other way of living their lives. They know they are men presenting as women. One still lives as a woman abd passes as a 70+woman who is a bit dotty. The other looks like a butch woman but now lives as a gay man, as he should have throughout his life. I have known both for 50 years being introduced to them by my mother who met them at work. If things had been different, I would never have met them as they would be gay men living in the USA. Not much has changed in the last 50 years has it?
I don't affirm my children if they say they have tummy ache. I observe, assess against past experience, and ask questions appropriate to their age. Only then do I decide if some treatment is necessary. That is the minimum duty of care a parent owes a child. I am definitely not going to affirm some half-wit claim that they have been the victim of negligent storks dropping in the wrong soul for their bodies,. Any parent or other person with a duty of care towards children that does so needs to be investigated and, possibly, prosecuted. I look forward to the time that all the pain and distress that these parents and professionals have caused is visited back on them.
There are a multitude of things that we require our children to be of age of consent to do. It is baffling to me that gender identity should be given a pass on this, especially the medicalization and surgery aspect. A child cannot possibly predict what they might want to have available as options when they grow up, and it is our job to try our best to leave those options open. Irreversible hormones and surgery removes quite a lot of options as it goes. Waiting to transition means the choice is still there. It doesn't mean it can't ever or won't happen. Maybe that's what these zealous proponents are afraid of, that very few will actually choose to transition if required to wait and their movement (£$£$) loses impetus.
Excellent Malcolm..did anyone tune in to the HoL debate yesterday? WOW! The majority gave such fab speeches and then you get Shami saying she wouldn't feel "safe" in a lift with a "cis" woman who was convicted of assault but she "would" with a twans..
I can grok why corporations want to make money from selling this atrocity, but I have a harder time grasping how ordinary people can't see the harm they are doing to the kids they are "treating." Here's the ad copy for one local pediatric endocrinologist who is making a killing poisoning gay and lesbian kids...mostly the girls, since they are the ones who have been targeted by this social contagion. She has such a pretty face. You'd never suspect she's a ghoul. https://cme.dmu.edu/system/files/DMU%20Gender%20Nonconforming%20Children%202019.pdf
Hi Graham, I would like to forward your email in its entirety to my MP (with links etc). Is that OK? Or alternatively do you know of a more succint document which has been prepared for MPs, to feed in to the debates over this Bill? Many thanks.
Thank you Malcolm. I look at all the '1' listed in that report, and see they do cover the weaknesses of their methodology. Is that '1' interviewee one of the '3'. I wonder if the 1 is the same 1 'other ('same-sex attracted')' when they don't list sex they list gender. How can you be same-sex attracted when 'sex' has been lost as a category. What does that mean now? Same yet other? And are they the same 1 as the 1 'Gaian'. It's very common to have people putting random labels on themselves, or insisting on their own words to describe their own selves, behaviours or beliefs on official forms. Same with 'does not apply to me'. Or Jedi. This happens with form-filling and box-ticking. And some people lie, or play with it and see it as something to try to break, like 'breaking the system'. As the census got a little confused about.
And why would a Government base policy on one person who self-declares as 'other' and answer this to many questions. Some people like to 'other' themselves for a host of reasons and to make a point, political or otherwise. Some will reject others and society. Or labels. We are atomising ourselves into smaller and smaller pixels to argue against each other.
I am not cisgender and not any 'gender' so therefore would my opinions be excluded from that 'research'? How did they choose and approach these interviewees? How self-selecting was this? Oh look, they tell us 'social media, contacting a range of stakeholder organisations (for example, LGBT, religious and healthcare) and fliers at several Pride festivals'.
Nice to know what the UK Government Equalities Hub and Government Equalities Office think.
Oh no, 'The findings and recommendations are those of the authors and do not represent the views of GEO or government policy'. Nice and clear (???!!).
I feel I am drowning in a bath of 'conversion therapy' telling me I am not allowed to use the word sex and same-sex attraction doesn't exist. But in case they are not 'aware' many are not welcomed into the 'groups' they approached. There are so many detransitioners brave enough to speak up, was that not part of this 'study'? It's not mentioned at all. Neither is transition? Because books don't count. Not matter how well researched.
Again, how do you have sexual attraction, sexual behaviour or sexual identity without sex, not gender. And they do know Psychology is different from and to Psychiatry don't they?
I am a psychotherapist working with children and have just completed the Government consultation on banning conversion therapy, closing DECEMBER 10TH
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/banning-conversion-therapy
(sorry - not sure why I am unable to make this into a link)
My main points were:
There is no proper definition of conversion therapy in the consultation document.
LGB conversion therapy is abhorrent and needs to be considered separately from 'T conversion therapy'.
Children are still developing and need to be understood in this context, as well as their family context. They are not 'little adults' but need space and time to explore. As parts of family systems they may, for example be expressing the wishes of a parent rather than a fully thought out understanding of their own.
Children experiencing gender dysphoria need a full multi-disciplinary assessment when presenting with any sort of distress. Their parents or carers also need to be included in the assessment and given support.
No talking therapy should have a particular agenda beyond increasing understanding in order to relieve distress. There is a risk that proposed changes will inhibit therapists from anything but a superficial 'affirmative' approach.
In August 2020 I made three requests of Pink News' Chief Executive Liar Benjamin Cohen that he update Victoria Parsons' breathlessly reported bullshit to include the refutation of the bogus suicide data by numerous clinicians and the fact that the claimants backed down from their bullshit while under scientific fire. Naturally, Ben stuck with the lie.
A fantastic thread read.
I'm so pissed at how they've changed what constitutes conversion therapy to mislead the public on their intentions of making it illegal to suggest that some children may just be same sex attracted and not actually trans.
They sit on a throne of lies by distorting language and changing definitions of words--makingnit so it's hard for us to even talk about.
I've noticedately they are conflating the terms homophobic and transphobic; effectually calling lesbians and gays who are GC homophobic.
We live in opposite land and it's infuriating and exhausting to try to refute their infantile bullshit
There is an imperceptible barrier between (1) a psychiatrist "understanding" his patient's mental disorder and (2) the same psychiatrist upholding the "right" of that mental patient to assert his/her delusion/dissociation/psychosis as valid and a reality.
That vanishingly thin barrier is called the "integrity of a medical professional" and desire to protect both the patient AND the general public.
I maintain that ALL the medical professionals (whether in psychiatry/psychology or in physical medicine) dealing with GD have acted totally unprofessionally and abandoned any notion which they might once have had of this subtle but vital distinction.
This is a perfect storm of the most powerful man in the country taking his lead from Stonewall (and his wife) and refusing to listen to other opinions, and the most trusted news outlet in the country being too scared to report this stuff.
If this swivel-eyed nonsense was explained in the mainstream media, and if Johnson and his wife didn't buy into it like credulous idiots, it would be just another pastime for fringe lunatics along with burning down 5G masts.
Not that I'd expect anything else from Johnson - he's never shown any core belief in anything other than his own career advancement, but it's a stunning dereliction of journalistic duty by the BBC. You seriously have to wonder what it's for if it can deliberately ignore this level of threat to the safeguarding of women and kids.
This has got to be the most gaslit we have ever been. This huge effort to 'ban' conversion therapy is the exact opposite. If the legislation is passed we will have unfettered 'affirmative' care. Many gay children, teenagers and unhappy adults will be converted instead to a different sex identity, being sterilised along the way. My take on it for Broadsheet.ie https://www.broadsheet.ie/2021/11/15/gender-questioning/
I knew some of this already. I have 2 transsexual friends who grew up in pastor families in the Bible Belt in the USA. They were gay at a time when homosexuality was against the law. Under family pressure, they went to Argentina for surgery, knowing it was Nazis who were doing it, but thinking they had no other way of living their lives. They know they are men presenting as women. One still lives as a woman abd passes as a 70+woman who is a bit dotty. The other looks like a butch woman but now lives as a gay man, as he should have throughout his life. I have known both for 50 years being introduced to them by my mother who met them at work. If things had been different, I would never have met them as they would be gay men living in the USA. Not much has changed in the last 50 years has it?
I don't affirm my children if they say they have tummy ache. I observe, assess against past experience, and ask questions appropriate to their age. Only then do I decide if some treatment is necessary. That is the minimum duty of care a parent owes a child. I am definitely not going to affirm some half-wit claim that they have been the victim of negligent storks dropping in the wrong soul for their bodies,. Any parent or other person with a duty of care towards children that does so needs to be investigated and, possibly, prosecuted. I look forward to the time that all the pain and distress that these parents and professionals have caused is visited back on them.
There are a multitude of things that we require our children to be of age of consent to do. It is baffling to me that gender identity should be given a pass on this, especially the medicalization and surgery aspect. A child cannot possibly predict what they might want to have available as options when they grow up, and it is our job to try our best to leave those options open. Irreversible hormones and surgery removes quite a lot of options as it goes. Waiting to transition means the choice is still there. It doesn't mean it can't ever or won't happen. Maybe that's what these zealous proponents are afraid of, that very few will actually choose to transition if required to wait and their movement (£$£$) loses impetus.
Thank you, Malcolm. This is one of the very best threads I've ever read on this subject.
Excellent Malcolm..did anyone tune in to the HoL debate yesterday? WOW! The majority gave such fab speeches and then you get Shami saying she wouldn't feel "safe" in a lift with a "cis" woman who was convicted of assault but she "would" with a twans..
"All gender identities are valid. Even ones that change over time."
- Jack Turban
And with that, he just shut down his practice.
I can grok why corporations want to make money from selling this atrocity, but I have a harder time grasping how ordinary people can't see the harm they are doing to the kids they are "treating." Here's the ad copy for one local pediatric endocrinologist who is making a killing poisoning gay and lesbian kids...mostly the girls, since they are the ones who have been targeted by this social contagion. She has such a pretty face. You'd never suspect she's a ghoul. https://cme.dmu.edu/system/files/DMU%20Gender%20Nonconforming%20Children%202019.pdf
Hi Graham, I would like to forward your email in its entirety to my MP (with links etc). Is that OK? Or alternatively do you know of a more succint document which has been prepared for MPs, to feed in to the debates over this Bill? Many thanks.
Thank you Malcolm. I look at all the '1' listed in that report, and see they do cover the weaknesses of their methodology. Is that '1' interviewee one of the '3'. I wonder if the 1 is the same 1 'other ('same-sex attracted')' when they don't list sex they list gender. How can you be same-sex attracted when 'sex' has been lost as a category. What does that mean now? Same yet other? And are they the same 1 as the 1 'Gaian'. It's very common to have people putting random labels on themselves, or insisting on their own words to describe their own selves, behaviours or beliefs on official forms. Same with 'does not apply to me'. Or Jedi. This happens with form-filling and box-ticking. And some people lie, or play with it and see it as something to try to break, like 'breaking the system'. As the census got a little confused about.
And why would a Government base policy on one person who self-declares as 'other' and answer this to many questions. Some people like to 'other' themselves for a host of reasons and to make a point, political or otherwise. Some will reject others and society. Or labels. We are atomising ourselves into smaller and smaller pixels to argue against each other.
I am not cisgender and not any 'gender' so therefore would my opinions be excluded from that 'research'? How did they choose and approach these interviewees? How self-selecting was this? Oh look, they tell us 'social media, contacting a range of stakeholder organisations (for example, LGBT, religious and healthcare) and fliers at several Pride festivals'.
Nice to know what the UK Government Equalities Hub and Government Equalities Office think.
Oh no, 'The findings and recommendations are those of the authors and do not represent the views of GEO or government policy'. Nice and clear (???!!).
I feel I am drowning in a bath of 'conversion therapy' telling me I am not allowed to use the word sex and same-sex attraction doesn't exist. But in case they are not 'aware' many are not welcomed into the 'groups' they approached. There are so many detransitioners brave enough to speak up, was that not part of this 'study'? It's not mentioned at all. Neither is transition? Because books don't count. Not matter how well researched.
Again, how do you have sexual attraction, sexual behaviour or sexual identity without sex, not gender. And they do know Psychology is different from and to Psychiatry don't they?
wow, what a story!