These people are lower than a snake's belly. Their personal and vitriolic attacks are a stark contrast to the measured, detailed, meticulous arguments of 'our side'. I'm so sorry that you're having to face the brunt of their bile but it's because you're such a threat to their house of cards. We know you to be a man of principle, integrity and immense courage whose support for women will never be forgotten. I'll gladly contribute to any legal funds and do whatever I can to help show these disgraceful bullies up for who they are. Take good care.
Graham, if you litigate, I'll contribute, but I suspect there is a deliberate effort to use up your energy and resources on things that, in the end, don't really matter. Anyone following these AGPs and handmaidens have already formed their opinions, and anyone who hasn't just has to read your work or watch your Mess on YouTube to know the truth. Those fuckers know you care passionately about this fight, they know you will stand your ground, and they want to get you fighting on too many fronts.
no, I think this does matter. people like Laurie have been smearing feminists for too long. I think it's time to show the consequences of that and hopefully discourage others from doing it to people who don't have the support that I have.
That is entirely your decision to make and you have much support here. It has been quite difficult to support other current cases as funding sites were taken down, so I hope that's all in hand too. All the very best of luck.
I’ll contribute too if Graham goes down that route, but I do agree with you. And Graham is doing a sterling job in raising awareness in spite of being “cancelled.” I only subscribed to the substack two months ago and I have learned a lot. I also love “The Mess We’re In” on YouTube.
Not sure I agree. Litigation is expensive, yes, but it puts your problems into the hands of lawyers and actually frees you to get on with what's important. Defamation law serves an important purpose and people should use it where they can to protect themselves. Too much of what's on Twitter is defamatory and should be challenged in court.
That would be a great outcome, if Graham was able to hand this filthy nonsense over to his lawyers and get on with what he does best - being a human right's advocate and comedy writer (not your usual byline :)) If he can pay people to deal with these unprovoked and undeserved attacks and compartmentalise it while he gets on with his life, that would be ideal.
Said this before, I'll support Graham all the way but I'd rather throw my $$$ directly at him rather than at his lawyers. (Nothing against lawyers but …) Worried that the stress of court proceedings will dilute Graham's energies. Let LP and her disgusting buddy “Grace” sputter. Ugh.
Also, worried that the glory of seeing herself as a “free speech” defendant will bring traffic to that miserable bottle-redhead nonentity's lame little substack (Penny, that is). Oh, who, by the way, came out as genderqueer in 2015 per Wikipedia, adopted they/them as pronouns in 2020, and got married to a plain old heterosexual male last year. Too funny.
Grace is not a name for this despicable vile man. I've wiped better than him off my shoe. You on the other hand are the just the loviest man and everyone you meet is lifted by it. 😘
I’m just a dumb American, and hopefully someone will correct me if I’ve got it all wrong, but I understand it as a reference to Vichy France during WWII. The Vichy government cooperated with the Nazis who invaded France. Vichy feminists, then, are women who have allowed men (autogynephiles, fetishists, etc.) to colonize feminism.
I should mention here that I’m not a product of the American public education system. I got into college on a seventh-grade public education. Completely missed high school, but the rampant immaturity currently on public display makes it seem like I’m attending high school now!
I like a nice historical allusion. So much goes back to wars. There's the old fake/real/fake enmity game between the English and the French, that this sits on, and the old 'V' sign feelings that seems to run fairly deep in some English ideas. These came rattling to the surface with Brexit, and talk of Waterloo etc. Being on whose side against whom. Cheese-eating surrender monkeys etc. Look up the Hartlepool Monkey.
Many English had close links with the 'free' French in WWII and there are very close and cooperative links still across the tiny body of water we still manage to call different things. And slightly mock each other as hopefully good friends do. It's also the name of some nice French cosmetics :-)
"Grace" can come after me any time he likes, because I believe the same as you, Graham. It'll be fun getting the court to explain how wrong he is more than once.
Graham, can I just say you have my support all the way. But I wonder whether you miight dig yourself into a big hole by going to court over this. I was reminded of the Mess when Kate and Bev from LGB Alliance joined you. They said they just don't respond when they are called bigots etc. They have a much bigger fight and they don't want to be distracted in this way. Is Grace doing this just to get a rise out of you? Take care of yourself, please.
Let’s forget the inverted commas. Graham can’t (publicly), but we can. Let’s just call him Joe. He’s a fraud.
I wish more people understood narcissism and sexual narcissism. Sexual narcissism is behind almost all rape, and it afflicts a lot of men. Global narcissism (being overall narcissistic) does not always entail sexual narcissism, and vice versa, though many if not a majority of global narcissists (people with narcissistic personality disorder) are also sexual narcissists. Clearly, “Grace” is both.
If more people understood narcissism and sexual narcissism, they’d be able to immediately spot it in many of the most prominent personalities among the TRA crowd. Some of them are not trans, just allies; many of the autogynephilic TRAs are quite clearly sexually narcissistic.
Narcissism also entails the creation of a false self to hide behind, a false self which is applauded, gains the narc all the narcissistic supply he could want, and which provides him adequate cover for his activities. What could be better than the magic bullet of trans?
Create an entirely new identity and even name: check. Forgiven for all past crimes: check. Allowed to never mention old life: check. Forbid others from ever mentioning old life: check. Given incredible leeway, sympathy, and status: check.
*Of course* narcissists, both covert and grandiose, are like moths to the flame of this movement. Whenever you grant anyone the special privileges I mentioned above, narcissists are going to want a piece of that power. It is for the same reason so many narcissists and psychopaths were found in the Church in the past, and still today in some places where it still wields outsized power.
The best thing you can do with a narcissists is refuse to concede their false self, and see through their ruse. So I’ll call him Joe.
I refer to these kinds of people by their surnames. They don't want the correct "titles" which would "misgender" so can be treated as one would in public school in history by their surnames.
Can't then be accused of "misgendering" or "deadnaming". Its their correct name.
Please take care of yourself Graham. We need you! I will happily contribute to a crowdfunder if that’s what you decide to do but consider just ignoring them. This might be a tactic to overwhelm you.
The bit about "Grace's" difficulties in grooming kids on the QT using Zoom interested me because back in the mid 80's similar left wing/progressive/ or whatever they like to call themselves types had a hidden curriculum at the school I was teaching at for the equivalent then of PSHE. Thus Year 7's were to be taught about oral sex - just one example. No parental consultation and no colleagues consultation. undertaken. They professed to be teaching one thing while teaching another. When the HOD and others discovered this it was knocked on the head- thankfully. Today they can be more open about it but not too open. Very unsavoury people then and even more so now. The Gender/Trans /or whatever debate sometimes seems to me to be largely about who sticks what in who and where and when - not protecting/supporting people who have undergone or are undergoing medical interventions. The words unstable, mentally disturbed, lascivious, seedy, sordid and sleazy come to mind when being forced to think about these people. It is rather like falling into a sewer. I thought social media was bad but Graham's Update has pointed out a whole alternate universe of cess pit dwellers.
And many men referring to themselves as 'girls'. I didn't when I was one and don't now I'm a woman. It's like this view of the small, weak, soft, vulnerable, innocent, female child these men wish they were and get off on the power play and pretence. Baby pink, glitter, unicorns? Eh? Repressed and repressor. Reality doesn't stand a chance in the face of that delusion. The MMA fighter uses hashtags with 'girls like us'. It makes me want to vomit. True wolf in sheep's clothing all this. All very Biblical. As secular as I am, feels like we were warned about this!
There was an outcry at a fancy private high school in Manhattan called Dalton when a sexual educator ran a pornography section of her course which include segments on waterelecrtro torture, BDSM, barely legal and incest themed pornography.
The same teacher got in trouble for talking to first graders about masturbation. I actually think her teaching first graders using age appropriate language about bodies, and making sure to emphasize privacy and say adults should never touch you, is fine. She told kids the names of genitals, and said it’s normal to touch yourself down there, you just need to do it when you’re alone, and adults shouldn’t ever touch you there, and if they do, talk to a trusted adult, it’s not your fault, etc. I think all of this is fine. (There may or may not have been a cartoon involved- no idea).
I am NOT OKAY with showing or normalizing pornography in the classroom. I’d much rather see a sex education that critically slams pornography, showing the damage done, and instead talks about intimacy, and teaches emotional intelligence in romantic relationships, even give tips on how to please a partner- I don’t care about that! I’m open-minded and sex positive. This is a sex education course for 12th-graders, students age 17-18.
I’d be happy about a course that teaches the ins and outs (if you’ll pardon the pun) of birth control, consent, and which teaches sexual health and also sexual empathy, to care about the well-being of your sexual partners, with talks about intimacy, relationships, feelings, and how to be respectful, affectionate and have a good time even if it’s something casual. I wouldn’t care at all if discussions of how to give and receive were included in these lessons (though students should be able to opt out). Of course the seriousness of STDs and the importance of family planning and use of birth control are paramount, but so are discussions normalizing homo- and bisexuality.
I think we need to make it clear we’re not against sex, nor teaching kids about sex properly- whether hetero-, homo- or bisexual. We’re not “sex negative,” or prudish reactionary Puritans.
Rather, we’re against abusive, often violent male-dominated and centering portrayals of sex and sexuality being taught to young people.
Is this the rather sad jump on a lawsuit for any and everything tactic that happens in the US? I am worried about you Graham. It appears as they are coordinating and are baiting and trying to push you. I hope you can rest, take time away from this, and not let their poison affect you as much as they are stating they wish to.
Reporting to Twitter seems pointless and the platforms are failing to address any of this with any urgency.
Seconded. Although people would contribute to a crowdfunder, taking someone to court over defamation could be ruinously expensive. Success is not guaranteed, and the stress of a legal action is unavoidable.
Graham has responded rationally and like a decent human who has finally had enough of being defamed. There is nothing in his response to be concerned about, he sounds reasonable and calm.
I think he's just moved to a new tactic, no longer accepting being defamed over and over lying down.
I know he has, I never said otherwise, and agree with you. He's very rational. Surely you'll allow me to express my concern towards someone under attack, and no it's not fake concern either. I'm sick of the lot of it.
And in case I didn't write this as clearly as I could have, it's not Graham I think is jumping on any lawsuit - it's the LP and Grace mob trying to whip this up in reponse to his very fair statements.
Thanks for the heads up. That's not great to see, and Lavery dragging me in too. Indiscriminate and threatening. To be expected I suppose. Twitter is a sewer.
These people are lower than a snake's belly. Their personal and vitriolic attacks are a stark contrast to the measured, detailed, meticulous arguments of 'our side'. I'm so sorry that you're having to face the brunt of their bile but it's because you're such a threat to their house of cards. We know you to be a man of principle, integrity and immense courage whose support for women will never be forgotten. I'll gladly contribute to any legal funds and do whatever I can to help show these disgraceful bullies up for who they are. Take good care.
Consider doing a fundraiser for this case. A lot of people will want to show support.
Graham, if you litigate, I'll contribute, but I suspect there is a deliberate effort to use up your energy and resources on things that, in the end, don't really matter. Anyone following these AGPs and handmaidens have already formed their opinions, and anyone who hasn't just has to read your work or watch your Mess on YouTube to know the truth. Those fuckers know you care passionately about this fight, they know you will stand your ground, and they want to get you fighting on too many fronts.
no, I think this does matter. people like Laurie have been smearing feminists for too long. I think it's time to show the consequences of that and hopefully discourage others from doing it to people who don't have the support that I have.
That is entirely your decision to make and you have much support here. It has been quite difficult to support other current cases as funding sites were taken down, so I hope that's all in hand too. All the very best of luck.
We can always add another payment through Substack. You can cancel the current subscription and subscribe again if need be :)
Right you be. I'm in, captain.
"Free speech doesn't mean free of consequences" they always cry.
I think it's time they practised what they preached. I'd cough up a few quid if you needed to fundraise.
I’ll contribute too if Graham goes down that route, but I do agree with you. And Graham is doing a sterling job in raising awareness in spite of being “cancelled.” I only subscribed to the substack two months ago and I have learned a lot. I also love “The Mess We’re In” on YouTube.
Not sure I agree. Litigation is expensive, yes, but it puts your problems into the hands of lawyers and actually frees you to get on with what's important. Defamation law serves an important purpose and people should use it where they can to protect themselves. Too much of what's on Twitter is defamatory and should be challenged in court.
That would be a great outcome, if Graham was able to hand this filthy nonsense over to his lawyers and get on with what he does best - being a human right's advocate and comedy writer (not your usual byline :)) If he can pay people to deal with these unprovoked and undeserved attacks and compartmentalise it while he gets on with his life, that would be ideal.
I totally agree Shacklit.
Said this before, I'll support Graham all the way but I'd rather throw my $$$ directly at him rather than at his lawyers. (Nothing against lawyers but …) Worried that the stress of court proceedings will dilute Graham's energies. Let LP and her disgusting buddy “Grace” sputter. Ugh.
Also, worried that the glory of seeing herself as a “free speech” defendant will bring traffic to that miserable bottle-redhead nonentity's lame little substack (Penny, that is). Oh, who, by the way, came out as genderqueer in 2015 per Wikipedia, adopted they/them as pronouns in 2020, and got married to a plain old heterosexual male last year. Too funny.
Agreed. When you are in a war you don’t want your best Field Marshall being distracted by skirmishes.
Grace is not a name for this despicable vile man. I've wiped better than him off my shoe. You on the other hand are the just the loviest man and everyone you meet is lifted by it. 😘
😂❤️
Superficial cosmetic alterations do not disguise male violence. But they do illustrate how shallow, vain and narcisstic Western societies have become.
I love the term "Vichy feminism." Perfect!
I think of them as Quisling feminists. Same sort of deal really :)
Quisfems. Better than libfems, because it illustrates the reality.
I know--it's so apropos!
I actually dunno what it means, have you got time to explain it to me please?
I’m just a dumb American, and hopefully someone will correct me if I’ve got it all wrong, but I understand it as a reference to Vichy France during WWII. The Vichy government cooperated with the Nazis who invaded France. Vichy feminists, then, are women who have allowed men (autogynephiles, fetishists, etc.) to colonize feminism.
You’ve got it - that’s exactly what it means.
I should mention here that I’m not a product of the American public education system. I got into college on a seventh-grade public education. Completely missed high school, but the rampant immaturity currently on public display makes it seem like I’m attending high school now!
I've noticed you call yourself that, but you're really the absolute opposite of dumb Bug
There are a few actual trolls in this neck of the woods who delight in asking innocent questions, so be careful.
Ahh, thanks! That makes total sense, yes!
Now that sounds plausible...I did a search but got no where.
Same, the internet gave me nothing! I came here to ask what it means!
I like a nice historical allusion. So much goes back to wars. There's the old fake/real/fake enmity game between the English and the French, that this sits on, and the old 'V' sign feelings that seems to run fairly deep in some English ideas. These came rattling to the surface with Brexit, and talk of Waterloo etc. Being on whose side against whom. Cheese-eating surrender monkeys etc. Look up the Hartlepool Monkey.
Many English had close links with the 'free' French in WWII and there are very close and cooperative links still across the tiny body of water we still manage to call different things. And slightly mock each other as hopefully good friends do. It's also the name of some nice French cosmetics :-)
"Grace" can come after me any time he likes, because I believe the same as you, Graham. It'll be fun getting the court to explain how wrong he is more than once.
Graham, can I just say you have my support all the way. But I wonder whether you miight dig yourself into a big hole by going to court over this. I was reminded of the Mess when Kate and Bev from LGB Alliance joined you. They said they just don't respond when they are called bigots etc. They have a much bigger fight and they don't want to be distracted in this way. Is Grace doing this just to get a rise out of you? Take care of yourself, please.
I find 'Grace' Lavery utterly terrifying.
Let’s forget the inverted commas. Graham can’t (publicly), but we can. Let’s just call him Joe. He’s a fraud.
I wish more people understood narcissism and sexual narcissism. Sexual narcissism is behind almost all rape, and it afflicts a lot of men. Global narcissism (being overall narcissistic) does not always entail sexual narcissism, and vice versa, though many if not a majority of global narcissists (people with narcissistic personality disorder) are also sexual narcissists. Clearly, “Grace” is both.
If more people understood narcissism and sexual narcissism, they’d be able to immediately spot it in many of the most prominent personalities among the TRA crowd. Some of them are not trans, just allies; many of the autogynephilic TRAs are quite clearly sexually narcissistic.
Narcissism also entails the creation of a false self to hide behind, a false self which is applauded, gains the narc all the narcissistic supply he could want, and which provides him adequate cover for his activities. What could be better than the magic bullet of trans?
Create an entirely new identity and even name: check. Forgiven for all past crimes: check. Allowed to never mention old life: check. Forbid others from ever mentioning old life: check. Given incredible leeway, sympathy, and status: check.
*Of course* narcissists, both covert and grandiose, are like moths to the flame of this movement. Whenever you grant anyone the special privileges I mentioned above, narcissists are going to want a piece of that power. It is for the same reason so many narcissists and psychopaths were found in the Church in the past, and still today in some places where it still wields outsized power.
The best thing you can do with a narcissists is refuse to concede their false self, and see through their ruse. So I’ll call him Joe.
Graceless Joe.
I refer to these kinds of people by their surnames. They don't want the correct "titles" which would "misgender" so can be treated as one would in public school in history by their surnames.
Can't then be accused of "misgendering" or "deadnaming". Its their correct name.
Agree. DisGrace is a bile man.
Please take care of yourself Graham. We need you! I will happily contribute to a crowdfunder if that’s what you decide to do but consider just ignoring them. This might be a tactic to overwhelm you.
Support you all the way Graham.
Christ that's horrific! Sick fuck.
The bit about "Grace's" difficulties in grooming kids on the QT using Zoom interested me because back in the mid 80's similar left wing/progressive/ or whatever they like to call themselves types had a hidden curriculum at the school I was teaching at for the equivalent then of PSHE. Thus Year 7's were to be taught about oral sex - just one example. No parental consultation and no colleagues consultation. undertaken. They professed to be teaching one thing while teaching another. When the HOD and others discovered this it was knocked on the head- thankfully. Today they can be more open about it but not too open. Very unsavoury people then and even more so now. The Gender/Trans /or whatever debate sometimes seems to me to be largely about who sticks what in who and where and when - not protecting/supporting people who have undergone or are undergoing medical interventions. The words unstable, mentally disturbed, lascivious, seedy, sordid and sleazy come to mind when being forced to think about these people. It is rather like falling into a sewer. I thought social media was bad but Graham's Update has pointed out a whole alternate universe of cess pit dwellers.
Yep, trawl through the Twitter account of the average TRA and it’s all porn, anime, BDSM and pictures of furries/littles.
And many men referring to themselves as 'girls'. I didn't when I was one and don't now I'm a woman. It's like this view of the small, weak, soft, vulnerable, innocent, female child these men wish they were and get off on the power play and pretence. Baby pink, glitter, unicorns? Eh? Repressed and repressor. Reality doesn't stand a chance in the face of that delusion. The MMA fighter uses hashtags with 'girls like us'. It makes me want to vomit. True wolf in sheep's clothing all this. All very Biblical. As secular as I am, feels like we were warned about this!
There was an outcry at a fancy private high school in Manhattan called Dalton when a sexual educator ran a pornography section of her course which include segments on waterelecrtro torture, BDSM, barely legal and incest themed pornography.
The same teacher got in trouble for talking to first graders about masturbation. I actually think her teaching first graders using age appropriate language about bodies, and making sure to emphasize privacy and say adults should never touch you, is fine. She told kids the names of genitals, and said it’s normal to touch yourself down there, you just need to do it when you’re alone, and adults shouldn’t ever touch you there, and if they do, talk to a trusted adult, it’s not your fault, etc. I think all of this is fine. (There may or may not have been a cartoon involved- no idea).
I am NOT OKAY with showing or normalizing pornography in the classroom. I’d much rather see a sex education that critically slams pornography, showing the damage done, and instead talks about intimacy, and teaches emotional intelligence in romantic relationships, even give tips on how to please a partner- I don’t care about that! I’m open-minded and sex positive. This is a sex education course for 12th-graders, students age 17-18.
I’d be happy about a course that teaches the ins and outs (if you’ll pardon the pun) of birth control, consent, and which teaches sexual health and also sexual empathy, to care about the well-being of your sexual partners, with talks about intimacy, relationships, feelings, and how to be respectful, affectionate and have a good time even if it’s something casual. I wouldn’t care at all if discussions of how to give and receive were included in these lessons (though students should be able to opt out). Of course the seriousness of STDs and the importance of family planning and use of birth control are paramount, but so are discussions normalizing homo- and bisexuality.
I think we need to make it clear we’re not against sex, nor teaching kids about sex properly- whether hetero-, homo- or bisexual. We’re not “sex negative,” or prudish reactionary Puritans.
Rather, we’re against abusive, often violent male-dominated and centering portrayals of sex and sexuality being taught to young people.
Is this the rather sad jump on a lawsuit for any and everything tactic that happens in the US? I am worried about you Graham. It appears as they are coordinating and are baiting and trying to push you. I hope you can rest, take time away from this, and not let their poison affect you as much as they are stating they wish to.
Reporting to Twitter seems pointless and the platforms are failing to address any of this with any urgency.
Go on, have a cup of tea :-)
Seconded. Although people would contribute to a crowdfunder, taking someone to court over defamation could be ruinously expensive. Success is not guaranteed, and the stress of a legal action is unavoidable.
Graham has responded rationally and like a decent human who has finally had enough of being defamed. There is nothing in his response to be concerned about, he sounds reasonable and calm.
I think he's just moved to a new tactic, no longer accepting being defamed over and over lying down.
I know he has, I never said otherwise, and agree with you. He's very rational. Surely you'll allow me to express my concern towards someone under attack, and no it's not fake concern either. I'm sick of the lot of it.
And in case I didn't write this as clearly as I could have, it's not Graham I think is jumping on any lawsuit - it's the LP and Grace mob trying to whip this up in reponse to his very fair statements.
Ah. I actually thought you were saying this of Graham. Hence my reply. Thank you for clarifying.
Thank you - these are US based people doing the latest pile-on and they seem to threaten this indiscriminately.
<cough>
https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/1437736709848981510
Thanks for the heads up. That's not great to see, and Lavery dragging me in too. Indiscriminate and threatening. To be expected I suppose. Twitter is a sewer.
Yes, of course, I think you've misread it.
I deleted my comment after you provided clarification.
I like that you put 'Grace' in inverted commas..utterly vile disturbing man.
I’m so sorry you have to go through this graham