I just had an absolutely insane interaction with some lunatic this evening. I blocked them in the end. Too upsetting. I pointed out that the new safeguarding guidance for teachers now lists breast ironing/flattening as a form of abuse that we have to look out for and report. It is, apparently, a practice in some communities. Ironically it is apparently done largely by women to girls to enable girls to escape sexual attention and in some way protect them from sexual assault. But it is abuse and causes physical pain and damage. Obviously. My point was - why on earth is Mermaids then allowed to send kids binders without permission and suffer no consequences whatever? The reply I received from one ghoul said that children are consenting to this so it’s fine, that they are allowed to choose how they dress and express themselves and ‘they have bodily autonomy.’ I pointed out the fking obvious- binders are not ‘clothes’, cause physical harm, kids don’t have blanket bodily autonomy and cannot consent to, for example, sex. The loathsome creature then replied to say amongst other things that ‘you don’t own kids sweetie.’ Made my flesh crawl. These people are vile.
Look after yourself as yes, they are. Making out this is about parents or caregivers not 'owning kids' lays bare the utter lack of safeguarding and how they have absolutely no clue what that means. Consent, competence, coercion, autonomy. All those words mean different things to them - autonomy means the autonomy to be raped or abused. It's as if children could 'consent' to CSA. It's gibberish. They don't seem to grasp anything or how decisions are made. This isn't about 'freedom' or 'rights', or rather, it's about their rights to have the freedom to abuse and influence vulnerable people and dress it up as something else.
There is/are a large number of like minded "woke" ghouls, as you so accurately identify them as being. They are part of a cadre of social anarchists who seek to change our language, perceptions of right and wrong, the legal system, and all that has historically been considered to be characteristics and values that preserve and support a culture and society. The only explanation I have is to use the word "evil". They will eventually try to change that word to the inverse of what it means. And what I mean by inverse is that they will attempt to invert the meaning to apply to those who call them out as being the evil ones rather than themselves.
Even now Mermaids are still saying binders are completely safe and so are puberty blockers. So there you go. Oh and Prince Harry is backing Mermaids. Clueless🤡
This is what is so mad - there is so much discussion of doing an inherently dangerous, unnecessary and unsafe thing 'safely'. There is no 'safe' breast binding. It's an oxymoron. I cannot believe they are successfully derailing concerns with this 'as long as you do it safely' tack. There is no sticking forks in your eyes safely either. Why are we convincing and allowing kids to think they are 'born' or 'feel' they're in 'the wrong body', that's the highly unsafe premise to all this that is being pushed. It's self-harm and abuse dressed up as enlightenment and emancipation.
There's no profit in talking therapy & fostering confidence, love & comfort in their own bodies. Sadly that's what this cult boils down to - profit & fetish. This is the fight of our lives.
I read a novel years ago that described the process. It was fairly brutal, one girl died of blood poisoning. But the prize was dainty lotus petal feet I think it was, and a good marriage.
Isn't it interesting how "civilized" humans see deformity as beauty? Every day I see women on television wearing stilettos -- required footwear?-- clown makeup, and clothes bordering on pornographic. When one sees a normal-looking woman one sighs with relief.
I just wish they would wear flats when they’re heavily pregnant. I have seen some ridiculous get ups on celebrity panel shows lately. Really bizarre make up and dresses.
Indeed! I wonder where the non-binaries go in the women and children first lineup are the next before the men or with the men or do we just use a sorting hat...?
I am a youth worker and have run several lgbT and just T projects . The lack of any sort of meaningful exploration from the NHS with young people who want to transition blew my mind and we offered another side to this discussion with conversations about gender stereotypes and gender norms. One of the saddest things I’ve ever seen was a young person wearing a binder who was asthmatic and had been to the dr once before being referred to the Tavistock. They had so much bruising and damage from the binder and were given testosterone. Due to have too surgery the reality’s of what was actually going to happen to this persons body set in and they decided to dr transition, 4 years later they are still suffering the side effects of Testosterone, the reminder that they has transitioned for a period and changed their name is constant when applying for CRB check and driving licence and they still have scars where the binder literally cut into their chest from the sheer force of the elastic. This person is one of many I have and continue to work with who go down the route of medical transition but then change their minds. Against the force of stonewall and of all sorts a more local lgbt organisation it is hard for us to speak about these issues openly but with the young people we support we always discuss all options and feelings etc about gender and gender identities. Sorry for the long potentially irrelevant message but the binder issue is something that really does make me so sad for these young people.
It's good to hear that you have provided a supportive space for young people to explore and question, rather than just affirm as in most groups. It's so important. Have you been ok in the way you work ie have you been called transphobic?
We have to be very very careful about how we speak etc I am a lesbian myself and often have conversations about sexuality and growing up feeling “different” I have been to trans pride in Brighton twice as part of my work ans have been to the museum of transolgoy 4 times with various groups of young people this I found very traumatic as it had a jar of removed breasts on display. A lot of the young people also Didn’t like this so it was in a way a good experience to show what can and does happen to the body. I have overheads young people discuss that they think they have seen a “terf” and then questioned what this means. We also run projects for other young people non lgbt and had a young girl who was pregnant she wanted a gender reveal party and some of the T said they didn’t want that to happen again we question why not if this other young person wants to then that’s her choice and that needs to be respected in the same way that we respect what you are doing, we have employed a member of staff who was MTF non medically transitioning. I haven’t been called transphobic but I’ve had alor of discussions about what this actually means and the difference between being pro women and anti trans, our main aim is to keep having the conversations whatever they are and to not rule out discussions or silence peoples opinions and in the main the young people are all very respectful of that when they are gently and openly asked to discuss.
It's really unfortunate that young people did not apparently learn anything in school about hormones and how powerful they are. I've noticed in the U.S. we no longer get news reports about MEN using testosterone and how dangerous it is for males! I can only assume this information is deliberately withheld -- pharmaceutical companies virtually control broadcast and print media -- so that young women will think it's safe to dose themselves with testosterone.
An autistic person who became trans-identified at university was told that there were only two choices for her and other trans-identified females: wear a binder or cut off your breasts. She'd picked up in trans forums that these were the only possibilities open to girls who become convinced they're not girls. Acceptance of their breasts wasn't considered a possibility.
This was a teen who'd had no body dysphoria, said so, as was also clear from her life before trans. Her autism made her susceptible to black & white messaging and to being given rules to follow.
Did you find that this either/or of 'you need to bind them or cut them off' is still common messaging?
I found that the top surgery was generally considered to be the “right” way to transition and within the close knit trans community that I had observed though my work and speaking to there is a hierarchy with trans people between those who have had medical intervention and those who haven’t. Part of this was manifested in my opinion by the museum of transology and EJ Scott who seemed to be the leader of the movement in Brighton and prided himself on the amount of mastication taken and medical procedures that he had, part of the museum display was a jacket made of used pill packs from testosterone. I also think there is a strong correlation between young people who have diagnosed and non diagnosed autism who are seem to be (anecdotally) keener to follow the route of medical transition and surgery. One young person that I worked with had a phalloplasty over 8 years ago and has since spent no longer than 3 months without being in hospital for complications due to this procedure. I am so worried about speaking about a lot of this because of my proximity to Brighton which has a higher than national average number of people who identify as Trans it’s like the trans equivalent of Clearwater for Scientology.
I'm sadly not surprised at the hierarchy you describe, nor at hearing your observed strong correlation between those who have autism and becoming fixated on following the medical/surgical route as the template to follow. Partly the appeal of being given a checklist of switchouts to make with the promise that you'll become more at ease with yourself and others if you tick the 'change me' boxes. Being led to misread the problem, then sold a promise of cure.
Thank you also for distinguishing between those diagnosed with autism and as yet undiagnosed, as it seems the latter may be in some ways especially susceptible to coming to believe that their sense of difference and difficulty with matters of personal identity, to name just two areas of susceptibility, can be explained by 'it sounds like I'm trans', as they have not been made aware that they are simply on the autism spectrum. And as girls are far more likely to go undiagnosed than boys, often masking better and so on, it's yet another reason to be concerned at the disproportionate numbers of girls caught up in it.
The phalloplasty patient you describe – how desperately sad to hear, yet how important that people learn of such outcomes. Again, sadly unsurprised at such an ordeal of suffering when the touted surgery is so extreme and fantastically danger-ridden. Rooted in and falsely selling a fantasy rather than in providing any real capacity or medical benefit, in my view. More like a guarantee of medical harms? Are prospective patients made aware in any truthful way of what others' real outcomes truly are, I wonder? Don't feel that you need to reply – I'm wondering aloud.
And yes, I can well imagine it's like Clearwater! Thank you for these observations. It's good to know you are there, worrying toward better outcomes on behalf of those you work with.
I’m my experience the patients are not made aware of any of the real outcomes I have been to the Tavistock with one client and went as their adult supporter they asked me to, I was pretty shocked about the total lack of information tbh a 20 min appointment followed by an immediate blood test next door and then a prescription of testosterone and the advice to legally change name and give up smoking for 2 years and living as a man. There was no information about how the testosterone would affect the person in the long term and just a conversation about waiting times for surgery. Another young person had been bullied at school for being a “dyke” and wanted to have top surgery, they had it and posted on Facebook photos of post operative scars etc but then after that they still didn’t feel right in themselves and still felt the way that they did before they had the surgery. They then went back to the dr and were finally diagnosed with autism. The person now lives as what they describe themselves as a freak half man half woman because they didn’t have bottom surgery and no longer take testosterone but have still got the after effects of it such as facial hair and a voice that sounds like it is breaking. This person has said that had they known about this prior to surgery they would not have had it. This is just one example of many there’s been so much stuff that has happened in this area as part of my work over the last 11 years. I think there needs to be a massive overhaul of the system and much much more emphasis on the talking therapies rather than a direct line to medical procedures. I also think more conversations about gender stereotypes and gender non conformity with young people who feel like they don’t fit in for whatever reason. X
'In my experience the patients are not made aware of any of the real outcomes'
Me too. Isn't it shocking. I was kind of hoping your experience (more individuals, from the sound of it) was less shocking. Complete dereliction of duty of care. A total absence of medical ethics, it seems. I'm now in a stage of waiting and worrying about psychological outcomes for ASD young adults who, as you describe, have followed the programme and are now at 'freak half man half woman'. The fallout from this craze is going to be huge.
I couldn't agree more about the absolute necessity of massive overhaul toward safeguarding AGAINST transition practices and instead treating what's in the mind. And yes, reassuring young people about their bodies and non-conformity and not to worry about stereotypes.
I found the final episode of Sex Education on Netflix very uncomfortable - discussion re binding ‘safely’ between two pupils as if there is a safe way of doing it. Irresponsible. They used bandages as opposed to a binder.
Yes, I remember when they were called breast binders. Chest binders sounds less harmful, somehow, as if they're not really flattening anything. Maybe we should call them breast binders again (like Pink News!)
Let's call them what they are; 21st century corsets. Preventing deep breathing, causing malformations of ribs (hello, tribes that made young women wear necklaces to distort their neck length, teeth filing in various remote rainforests, Chinese foot-binding. and the tradition, all over the world, of feeding male members of family first)
A new James Esses interview at this link, attempts to promote actual sanity"
It’s interesting that ‘girldick’ is allowed but ‘boybreasts’ aren’t, rather like if a female teacher wore a giant prosthetic penis, it wouldn’t be considered ok. Or would it? Why on earth would there be a difference between these examples? We are told chest binders are essential for mental health, but I thought it wasn’t a mental illness? So many questions, but no debate.
Why would a girl need to bind her breasts if gender isn't sex, and out of all the hundreds of supposed genders why do these physical interventions always serve to support one of two choices - either resembling a male or resembling a female - a binary FFS? And while I'm on a rant, why aren't Mermaids mailing out bollock flatteners for boys? Where are the steel-sprung budgie smugglers to help the lads express their true inner selves?
Liverpool ‘Lush’ were distributing binders at one point. Dunno if they still are - could have been the local franchiser’s decision. I asked in another store & they’d heard nothing about it.
You’d think handing out binders to young women would be against their anti-animal cruelty / cosmetics / pro Mother Nature position as they cause physical damage & add to the concept of ‘being in the wrong body’. I understand why females want to wear them (to escape the male gaze / freedom of movement etc) but a Corporation whose business is retailing planet -friendly cosmetics has no business handing out potentially harmful items. They can affect your breathing - which apart from being a little necessary in its own right, also affects you if you play a wind instrument / you sing ; they can break ribs or bruise ribs, affect your back, shoulders and neck & make you lightheaded. They shouldn’t be worn for long periods of time. They’re used on the pathway to transition; but often females on that path often have their breasts removed and stop at that because they don’t actually want to be men. It’s body dysmorphia rather than gender dysphoria. Sexism is the root cause we should be looking at - not encouraging mass surgery.
A person may use binding as a way to affirm their gender identity. People who are transgender or nonbinary may find that binding helps them feel more comfortable with their bodies.
Although some trans and nonbinary individuals use chest binding, it is not necessary for everyone. There is no right or wrong way to be trans, and a person can express their identity in the way that suits them best.
A woman stating that Mermaids not sending out breast binders isn't illegal, comparing it to teenagers being given contraception. Stating gender dysphoria presents risk of suicide. Others pushing back stating contraception doesn't break ribs and requires assessment and advice by trained medical professional. Another tweet stating breast binders are 'just glorified sports bras'🙄
“I ask Corrin about a photo they posted of themself in a chest binder last July along with a caption about safe binding practices. Posting anything to Instagram about gender identity can be “really scary,” they say, and the July post prompted a flood of comments, not all of them respectful. “In my mind, gender just isn’t something that feels fixed,” they say, “and I don’t know if it ever will be; there might always be some fluidity there for me.” “
A public library in Hannover, Germany, has brochures on binding and tucking on display, visible for children and young adults. Sorry, all sources in German:
One bloke tried to draw parallels between gymnasts and ballerinas in terms of physical damage! 'So would you stop your child from doing ballet?' These people are insane.
This article takes the standard route of ‘it’s so brave and such good representation but also please ask a doctor if you have scoliosis, asthma, or any breathing problems’ right at the end in a Tony’s disclaimer before saying ‘watch Netflix now!’
I have asked breastfeeding organisation La Leche League International what their position on breastbinding is on several occasions and received no response. They publish quite a number of articles on trans breastfeeding but avoid this uncomfortable conversation because it is quite obviously extremely unhealthy to bind breasts which are producing milk.
Kellymom.com (a popular site for breastfeeding support in the US but much used by UK mothers has the following) on binding:
'A trans man who has not had top surgery may choose to bind his chest in order to flatten it, thereby managing his gender dysphoria. Many years of binding may adversely affect the glandular tissue [It doesn't take 'many years' to cause damage does it?]. Binding during the immediate postpartum period will increase the risk of blocked ducts and mastitis and may damage the milk supply. [As an ex breastfeeding counsellor, I'd say this would be more than likely and might also lead to abscess]. However, some individuals have had success with occasional, careful binding once the milk supply is well established and regulated. [How do you define 'careful binding'? I cannot understand how any one who understands breastfeeding could suggest such a thing.] Anyone who practices binding during the lactation period should be advised of the risks of doing so, and should monitor the health of their chest closely.'[So contradicting what she just said with regards to a bit of binding being OK.]
“Even that was still extremely difficult to put on. You get used to it, though. The tightness is a double-edged sword — sometimes you feel like you’re being suffocated, but at other times a binder feels like a close hug.”
Loads of examples in this article from NYT.
And of course the lovely not emotionally manipulative article title: ‘It’s binding or suicide’
We could all do with that teacher in Canada wearing a breast binder.
😍
Lol.
Ooh Pink News have said 'breast binder' and not chest binder - how transphobic.
I just had an absolutely insane interaction with some lunatic this evening. I blocked them in the end. Too upsetting. I pointed out that the new safeguarding guidance for teachers now lists breast ironing/flattening as a form of abuse that we have to look out for and report. It is, apparently, a practice in some communities. Ironically it is apparently done largely by women to girls to enable girls to escape sexual attention and in some way protect them from sexual assault. But it is abuse and causes physical pain and damage. Obviously. My point was - why on earth is Mermaids then allowed to send kids binders without permission and suffer no consequences whatever? The reply I received from one ghoul said that children are consenting to this so it’s fine, that they are allowed to choose how they dress and express themselves and ‘they have bodily autonomy.’ I pointed out the fking obvious- binders are not ‘clothes’, cause physical harm, kids don’t have blanket bodily autonomy and cannot consent to, for example, sex. The loathsome creature then replied to say amongst other things that ‘you don’t own kids sweetie.’ Made my flesh crawl. These people are vile.
Look after yourself as yes, they are. Making out this is about parents or caregivers not 'owning kids' lays bare the utter lack of safeguarding and how they have absolutely no clue what that means. Consent, competence, coercion, autonomy. All those words mean different things to them - autonomy means the autonomy to be raped or abused. It's as if children could 'consent' to CSA. It's gibberish. They don't seem to grasp anything or how decisions are made. This isn't about 'freedom' or 'rights', or rather, it's about their rights to have the freedom to abuse and influence vulnerable people and dress it up as something else.
I limited who could see my tweets after that exchange. These people are mad and malign and I don’t want them anywhere near me - not even virtually.
I’m going to assume that was a paedophile.
its not consent becuase kids and parents are agreeing to these things based on a ton of lies and misinformation.
No, you don't own kids, gender ideology owns kids in this brave new world of ours.
Yes, when I read that line, the continuation in my head was 'you don't own kids, sweetie, we do'.
It takes time, money and courage to raise children. I did my myself. Now they are doing as I did.
Awful. I saw that conversation. We see them.
There is/are a large number of like minded "woke" ghouls, as you so accurately identify them as being. They are part of a cadre of social anarchists who seek to change our language, perceptions of right and wrong, the legal system, and all that has historically been considered to be characteristics and values that preserve and support a culture and society. The only explanation I have is to use the word "evil". They will eventually try to change that word to the inverse of what it means. And what I mean by inverse is that they will attempt to invert the meaning to apply to those who call them out as being the evil ones rather than themselves.
There are only parents and children in this. Those who don't know what being a parent mean are children.
Even now Mermaids are still saying binders are completely safe and so are puberty blockers. So there you go. Oh and Prince Harry is backing Mermaids. Clueless🤡
This is what is so mad - there is so much discussion of doing an inherently dangerous, unnecessary and unsafe thing 'safely'. There is no 'safe' breast binding. It's an oxymoron. I cannot believe they are successfully derailing concerns with this 'as long as you do it safely' tack. There is no sticking forks in your eyes safely either. Why are we convincing and allowing kids to think they are 'born' or 'feel' they're in 'the wrong body', that's the highly unsafe premise to all this that is being pushed. It's self-harm and abuse dressed up as enlightenment and emancipation.
Putting the moron in oxymoron.
You’re spot on!! 🤣
There's no profit in talking therapy & fostering confidence, love & comfort in their own bodies. Sadly that's what this cult boils down to - profit & fetish. This is the fight of our lives.
No surprise about PH - he really is dumb & mislead. Where did he say he back Mermaids? Would love to see the source.
this is from 2019, but would like to see more recent article.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6954169/Prince-Harry-shows-support-transgender-charity-Mermaids.html
the last thing i can find with PH and mermaids is from 2019. maybe hes wised up. funny how much smarter ppl become after leaving UK
Hardly: he's become even more brainwashed since moving to the States with Me-Gain and all this ideology started in the States in the first place.
Unless they go to Canada, which PH did initially.
I don’t think Harry’s wised up in any way whatsoever! Hopefully I am proven wrong
one of the Harry articles was from 2017, another from 2019... but yeah. Eugh.
Thank you super helpful
Still applies Eugh!
You do realize that the royal family has mountains of investments? Undoubtedly some of them are in pharmaceuticals.
Sure and same for all banks - we all use those too! Can’t avoid it really. I closed my NatWest because of this only to find Barclays are worse!
Not an example, but I always wondered how Chinese foot-binding became a thing. Now I know.
I read a novel years ago that described the process. It was fairly brutal, one girl died of blood poisoning. But the prize was dainty lotus petal feet I think it was, and a good marriage.
Isn't it interesting how "civilized" humans see deformity as beauty? Every day I see women on television wearing stilettos -- required footwear?-- clown makeup, and clothes bordering on pornographic. When one sees a normal-looking woman one sighs with relief.
I just wish they would wear flats when they’re heavily pregnant. I have seen some ridiculous get ups on celebrity panel shows lately. Really bizarre make up and dresses.
Emma Corrin did a whole “I’m non binary” shoot in Vogue magazine, lots of “glamour fashion” shots in a very loose binder.
Disturbing
My phone isn’t letting me link sorry.
If they shouted "Women and children first!" on a sinking ship I'm pretty sure her authentic self would resurface at speed.
Indeed! I wonder where the non-binaries go in the women and children first lineup are the next before the men or with the men or do we just use a sorting hat...?
I think they reject the oppressive binary of male/female to the point where they succumb to the oppressive binary of living/drowned.
Yes, I saw that at the time, black and white arty shots trying to make it all look oh so cool.
I am a youth worker and have run several lgbT and just T projects . The lack of any sort of meaningful exploration from the NHS with young people who want to transition blew my mind and we offered another side to this discussion with conversations about gender stereotypes and gender norms. One of the saddest things I’ve ever seen was a young person wearing a binder who was asthmatic and had been to the dr once before being referred to the Tavistock. They had so much bruising and damage from the binder and were given testosterone. Due to have too surgery the reality’s of what was actually going to happen to this persons body set in and they decided to dr transition, 4 years later they are still suffering the side effects of Testosterone, the reminder that they has transitioned for a period and changed their name is constant when applying for CRB check and driving licence and they still have scars where the binder literally cut into their chest from the sheer force of the elastic. This person is one of many I have and continue to work with who go down the route of medical transition but then change their minds. Against the force of stonewall and of all sorts a more local lgbt organisation it is hard for us to speak about these issues openly but with the young people we support we always discuss all options and feelings etc about gender and gender identities. Sorry for the long potentially irrelevant message but the binder issue is something that really does make me so sad for these young people.
Ps I'm asthmatic and the thought of what that poor young person would have gone through is just horrific
It was so horrible and like the worst sort of self harm imo
It's good to hear that you have provided a supportive space for young people to explore and question, rather than just affirm as in most groups. It's so important. Have you been ok in the way you work ie have you been called transphobic?
We have to be very very careful about how we speak etc I am a lesbian myself and often have conversations about sexuality and growing up feeling “different” I have been to trans pride in Brighton twice as part of my work ans have been to the museum of transolgoy 4 times with various groups of young people this I found very traumatic as it had a jar of removed breasts on display. A lot of the young people also Didn’t like this so it was in a way a good experience to show what can and does happen to the body. I have overheads young people discuss that they think they have seen a “terf” and then questioned what this means. We also run projects for other young people non lgbt and had a young girl who was pregnant she wanted a gender reveal party and some of the T said they didn’t want that to happen again we question why not if this other young person wants to then that’s her choice and that needs to be respected in the same way that we respect what you are doing, we have employed a member of staff who was MTF non medically transitioning. I haven’t been called transphobic but I’ve had alor of discussions about what this actually means and the difference between being pro women and anti trans, our main aim is to keep having the conversations whatever they are and to not rule out discussions or silence peoples opinions and in the main the young people are all very respectful of that when they are gently and openly asked to discuss.
It's really unfortunate that young people did not apparently learn anything in school about hormones and how powerful they are. I've noticed in the U.S. we no longer get news reports about MEN using testosterone and how dangerous it is for males! I can only assume this information is deliberately withheld -- pharmaceutical companies virtually control broadcast and print media -- so that young women will think it's safe to dose themselves with testosterone.
An autistic person who became trans-identified at university was told that there were only two choices for her and other trans-identified females: wear a binder or cut off your breasts. She'd picked up in trans forums that these were the only possibilities open to girls who become convinced they're not girls. Acceptance of their breasts wasn't considered a possibility.
This was a teen who'd had no body dysphoria, said so, as was also clear from her life before trans. Her autism made her susceptible to black & white messaging and to being given rules to follow.
Did you find that this either/or of 'you need to bind them or cut them off' is still common messaging?
I found that the top surgery was generally considered to be the “right” way to transition and within the close knit trans community that I had observed though my work and speaking to there is a hierarchy with trans people between those who have had medical intervention and those who haven’t. Part of this was manifested in my opinion by the museum of transology and EJ Scott who seemed to be the leader of the movement in Brighton and prided himself on the amount of mastication taken and medical procedures that he had, part of the museum display was a jacket made of used pill packs from testosterone. I also think there is a strong correlation between young people who have diagnosed and non diagnosed autism who are seem to be (anecdotally) keener to follow the route of medical transition and surgery. One young person that I worked with had a phalloplasty over 8 years ago and has since spent no longer than 3 months without being in hospital for complications due to this procedure. I am so worried about speaking about a lot of this because of my proximity to Brighton which has a higher than national average number of people who identify as Trans it’s like the trans equivalent of Clearwater for Scientology.
Thank you for your insights on this.
I'm sadly not surprised at the hierarchy you describe, nor at hearing your observed strong correlation between those who have autism and becoming fixated on following the medical/surgical route as the template to follow. Partly the appeal of being given a checklist of switchouts to make with the promise that you'll become more at ease with yourself and others if you tick the 'change me' boxes. Being led to misread the problem, then sold a promise of cure.
Thank you also for distinguishing between those diagnosed with autism and as yet undiagnosed, as it seems the latter may be in some ways especially susceptible to coming to believe that their sense of difference and difficulty with matters of personal identity, to name just two areas of susceptibility, can be explained by 'it sounds like I'm trans', as they have not been made aware that they are simply on the autism spectrum. And as girls are far more likely to go undiagnosed than boys, often masking better and so on, it's yet another reason to be concerned at the disproportionate numbers of girls caught up in it.
The phalloplasty patient you describe – how desperately sad to hear, yet how important that people learn of such outcomes. Again, sadly unsurprised at such an ordeal of suffering when the touted surgery is so extreme and fantastically danger-ridden. Rooted in and falsely selling a fantasy rather than in providing any real capacity or medical benefit, in my view. More like a guarantee of medical harms? Are prospective patients made aware in any truthful way of what others' real outcomes truly are, I wonder? Don't feel that you need to reply – I'm wondering aloud.
And yes, I can well imagine it's like Clearwater! Thank you for these observations. It's good to know you are there, worrying toward better outcomes on behalf of those you work with.
I’m my experience the patients are not made aware of any of the real outcomes I have been to the Tavistock with one client and went as their adult supporter they asked me to, I was pretty shocked about the total lack of information tbh a 20 min appointment followed by an immediate blood test next door and then a prescription of testosterone and the advice to legally change name and give up smoking for 2 years and living as a man. There was no information about how the testosterone would affect the person in the long term and just a conversation about waiting times for surgery. Another young person had been bullied at school for being a “dyke” and wanted to have top surgery, they had it and posted on Facebook photos of post operative scars etc but then after that they still didn’t feel right in themselves and still felt the way that they did before they had the surgery. They then went back to the dr and were finally diagnosed with autism. The person now lives as what they describe themselves as a freak half man half woman because they didn’t have bottom surgery and no longer take testosterone but have still got the after effects of it such as facial hair and a voice that sounds like it is breaking. This person has said that had they known about this prior to surgery they would not have had it. This is just one example of many there’s been so much stuff that has happened in this area as part of my work over the last 11 years. I think there needs to be a massive overhaul of the system and much much more emphasis on the talking therapies rather than a direct line to medical procedures. I also think more conversations about gender stereotypes and gender non conformity with young people who feel like they don’t fit in for whatever reason. X
'In my experience the patients are not made aware of any of the real outcomes'
Me too. Isn't it shocking. I was kind of hoping your experience (more individuals, from the sound of it) was less shocking. Complete dereliction of duty of care. A total absence of medical ethics, it seems. I'm now in a stage of waiting and worrying about psychological outcomes for ASD young adults who, as you describe, have followed the programme and are now at 'freak half man half woman'. The fallout from this craze is going to be huge.
I couldn't agree more about the absolute necessity of massive overhaul toward safeguarding AGAINST transition practices and instead treating what's in the mind. And yes, reassuring young people about their bodies and non-conformity and not to worry about stereotypes.
This is heartbreaking though certainly very relevant. Thank you for sharing
I found the final episode of Sex Education on Netflix very uncomfortable - discussion re binding ‘safely’ between two pupils as if there is a safe way of doing it. Irresponsible. They used bandages as opposed to a binder.
The preferred term apparently is "chest binders" because trans-men don't like to admit they have -- shudder -- "breasts".
https://www.andyamor.com/collections/chest-binders
And udder is hidden in shudder. 😄
Yes, I remember when they were called breast binders. Chest binders sounds less harmful, somehow, as if they're not really flattening anything. Maybe we should call them breast binders again (like Pink News!)
Plus chest can be read as 'see he's t'! 😄
90 quid and look just like a sports bra. Money for old rope
Let's call them what they are; 21st century corsets. Preventing deep breathing, causing malformations of ribs (hello, tribes that made young women wear necklaces to distort their neck length, teeth filing in various remote rainforests, Chinese foot-binding. and the tradition, all over the world, of feeding male members of family first)
A new James Esses interview at this link, attempts to promote actual sanity"
https://wordpress.com/post/uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com/4740
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods. True Tales from a Grass Widow (iuniverse, 2022)
uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com
You have probably seen it but for everyone else...
Statement in response to a Telegraph article published Sunday 25 September
https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/statement-in-response-to-a-telegraph-article-published-sunday-25-september/
It’s interesting that ‘girldick’ is allowed but ‘boybreasts’ aren’t, rather like if a female teacher wore a giant prosthetic penis, it wouldn’t be considered ok. Or would it? Why on earth would there be a difference between these examples? We are told chest binders are essential for mental health, but I thought it wasn’t a mental illness? So many questions, but no debate.
Why would a girl need to bind her breasts if gender isn't sex, and out of all the hundreds of supposed genders why do these physical interventions always serve to support one of two choices - either resembling a male or resembling a female - a binary FFS? And while I'm on a rant, why aren't Mermaids mailing out bollock flatteners for boys? Where are the steel-sprung budgie smugglers to help the lads express their true inner selves?
Liverpool ‘Lush’ were distributing binders at one point. Dunno if they still are - could have been the local franchiser’s decision. I asked in another store & they’d heard nothing about it.
You’d think handing out binders to young women would be against their anti-animal cruelty / cosmetics / pro Mother Nature position as they cause physical damage & add to the concept of ‘being in the wrong body’. I understand why females want to wear them (to escape the male gaze / freedom of movement etc) but a Corporation whose business is retailing planet -friendly cosmetics has no business handing out potentially harmful items. They can affect your breathing - which apart from being a little necessary in its own right, also affects you if you play a wind instrument / you sing ; they can break ribs or bruise ribs, affect your back, shoulders and neck & make you lightheaded. They shouldn’t be worn for long periods of time. They’re used on the pathway to transition; but often females on that path often have their breasts removed and stop at that because they don’t actually want to be men. It’s body dysmorphia rather than gender dysphoria. Sexism is the root cause we should be looking at - not encouraging mass surgery.
From the bc gov’t health authority website
http://www.phsa.ca/transcarebc/care-support/transitioning/bind-pack-tuck-pad
http://www.phsa.ca/transcarebc/Documents/HealthProf/Binding-Handout.pdf
Not the drawbacks do NOT include anything actually bad like rib compression or fractures, difficulty exercising etc.
What is binding, and how can I do it safely?
A person may use binding as a way to affirm their gender identity. People who are transgender or nonbinary may find that binding helps them feel more comfortable with their bodies.
Although some trans and nonbinary individuals use chest binding, it is not necessary for everyone. There is no right or wrong way to be trans, and a person can express their identity in the way that suits them best.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/breast-binding#overview
Possible risks of unsafe chest binding include:
chest pain
scarring
overheating
shortness of breath
a buildup of fluid in the lungs
reduced exercise tolerance
difficulty speaking
broken ribs
back pain
skin issues
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/caa/child-abuse/breast-ironing-flattening/ The Met call it child abuse
Now there's a link worth posting in response to every ghoul on twitter.
This is interesting..
https://twitter.com/firewomon/status/1574414992635580417
A woman stating that Mermaids not sending out breast binders isn't illegal, comparing it to teenagers being given contraception. Stating gender dysphoria presents risk of suicide. Others pushing back stating contraception doesn't break ribs and requires assessment and advice by trained medical professional. Another tweet stating breast binders are 'just glorified sports bras'🙄
Mermaids sending out breast binders......
They might as well send out rainbow coloured razors for self cutting. It's their bodies after all.
Aren't they worried that later on when they have babies that they may have problems with CHEST FEEDING????
If they believe they're turning into actual boys they probably aren't thinking about babies.
OH really? I thought it was PREGNANT PEOPLE now??? ;->
Sent you a couple of examples.
Might have been insta:
“I ask Corrin about a photo they posted of themself in a chest binder last July along with a caption about safe binding practices. Posting anything to Instagram about gender identity can be “really scary,” they say, and the July post prompted a flood of comments, not all of them respectful. “In my mind, gender just isn’t something that feels fixed,” they say, “and I don’t know if it ever will be; there might always be some fluidity there for me.” “
https://www.vogue.com/article/emma-corrin-august-2022-cover
Oh my lord what an utter bollocks grammar infringement that so called article is. Laughable
https://twitter.com/I_will_debate_u/status/1574421155955593217?s=20&t=8f5HNqKF6i62256DMvcIPw
https://twitter.com/stormtroopers99/status/1574455424853708824?s=12
Couple of tweets in a thread I commented on.
https://twitter.com/thenameishyde/status/1574318415111606272?t=Djszu_yeT4aSvvkP-0-oyw&s=19
https://twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1574346589044461573?t=kr-5Z5jAQ5ZStZDTrVmyqg&s=19
https://4w.pub/australian-charity-sends-harmful-breast-binders-to-girls/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/06/emma-corrin-pictured-wearing-chest-binder/
A public library in Hannover, Germany, has brochures on binding and tucking on display, visible for children and young adults. Sorry, all sources in German:
https://twitter.com/leih_verkehr/status/1572168697040470017?s=46&t=U3uCEPAWr-bpyjbsCCG1jQ
https://www.haz.de/lokales/hannover/transidentitaet-in-hannover-dieses-glossar-hilft-in-der-oeffentlichen-debatte-UHWIJ46X2ROLSQVE3RWAMS4ZZE.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1664009139
One bloke tried to draw parallels between gymnasts and ballerinas in terms of physical damage! 'So would you stop your child from doing ballet?' These people are insane.
How insulting to gymnasts and ballerinas everywhere
I know!
Mousely Logical...goes illogically fallacious. Binders good, other lady-things bad.
https://twitter.com/BlueMouseEeek/status/1574354480896049152?t=p1hTMPKmG45odKutPMs-mA&s=19
Netflix’s ‘Sex Education’ season 3 had an oh-so brave and oh-so-nuanced plot about binders and the difficulties of being non-binary. https://www.newsweek.com/chest-binders-sex-education-season-3-gender-identity-1629032?amp=1
This article takes the standard route of ‘it’s so brave and such good representation but also please ask a doctor if you have scoliosis, asthma, or any breathing problems’ right at the end in a Tony’s disclaimer before saying ‘watch Netflix now!’
*tinsy not Tony’s - let’s all leave Tony out of this, he’s had a tough day.
another one. https://twitter.com/Alpha_RatsNest/status/1574513061112688640?s=20&t=eZ04AFuWcUBWm1rANbCewQ
https://www.instagram.com/p/CfZBFQqDx-p/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= This appears to acknowledge the dangers but suggest it's ok if you limit the time you do it. Nowhere is this time specified.
I have asked breastfeeding organisation La Leche League International what their position on breastbinding is on several occasions and received no response. They publish quite a number of articles on trans breastfeeding but avoid this uncomfortable conversation because it is quite obviously extremely unhealthy to bind breasts which are producing milk.
Kellymom.com (a popular site for breastfeeding support in the US but much used by UK mothers has the following) on binding:
'A trans man who has not had top surgery may choose to bind his chest in order to flatten it, thereby managing his gender dysphoria. Many years of binding may adversely affect the glandular tissue [It doesn't take 'many years' to cause damage does it?]. Binding during the immediate postpartum period will increase the risk of blocked ducts and mastitis and may damage the milk supply. [As an ex breastfeeding counsellor, I'd say this would be more than likely and might also lead to abscess]. However, some individuals have had success with occasional, careful binding once the milk supply is well established and regulated. [How do you define 'careful binding'? I cannot understand how any one who understands breastfeeding could suggest such a thing.] Anyone who practices binding during the lactation period should be advised of the risks of doing so, and should monitor the health of their chest closely.'[So contradicting what she just said with regards to a bit of binding being OK.]
“Even that was still extremely difficult to put on. You get used to it, though. The tightness is a double-edged sword — sometimes you feel like you’re being suffocated, but at other times a binder feels like a close hug.”
Loads of examples in this article from NYT.
And of course the lovely not emotionally manipulative article title: ‘It’s binding or suicide’
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/reader-center/chest-binding.amp.html
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0a6ce47eae3e6f6944cfed53b5ab1add/e6c18ac4e2c68e42-f5/s1280x1920/b0df156e1a9b256f012dbea4a940b64b7417b582.jpg A shame the username is redacted. He's almost onto realising that there might be some overlap between the people who wear binders And high heels...
This guy on twitter saying binders are “shirts”
https://twitter.com/i_will_debate_u/status/1574396591657684992?s=46&t=3B9uHf4pRYJz-KHL0b0aCg
This popped up on twitter here https://twitter.com/thervt/status/1572974254060179458?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q in the comments this ensued here https://twitter.com/KyuHusky/status/1574295124896522243?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q read the comment replies to KyuHusky, I'm Apple Pi I think she walked herself right into it. Lol.
This popped up on twitter here https://twitter.com/thervt/status/1572974254060179458?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q in the comments this ensued here https://twitter.com/KyuHusky/status/1574295124896522243?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q read the comment replies to KyuHusky, I'm Apple Pi I think she walked herself right into it. Lol.
https://transgenderni.org.uk/binder-scheme/ https://twitter.com/TransgenderNI/status/1391832009916485633
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7xzpxx/chest-binding-health-project-inside-landmark-overdue-transgender-study
Another one. The fetishists are getting upset.
https://twitter.com/satanicqueer92/status/1574507205281214465?s=20&t=eZ04AFuWcUBWm1rANbCewQ
Me no twitter but anything to get panties in a bunch, poof it up so much it pops like a boil....
For serious genital compression, shop here:
https://medieval-armour.com/online-shop/medieval-objects/chastity-belt-man-html
>>>Chastity Belt (man)
Male version chastity belt. Made entirely of wrought iron <<<
And I would say, "Hey you want compression down there? Try this!"
After he got it on (me not watching...) I'd say, "Oops, I just dropped the key down the loo..."
If he insists he's "woman" there's also Medieval Chastity Belt in the female version, wearable, entirely made in burnished iron ...