I just had an absolutely insane interaction with some lunatic this evening. I blocked them in the end. Too upsetting. I pointed out that the new safeguarding guidance for teachers now lists breast ironing/flattening as a form of abuse that we have to look out for and report. It is, apparently, a practice in some communities. Ironically it is apparently done largely by women to girls to enable girls to escape sexual attention and in some way protect them from sexual assault. But it is abuse and causes physical pain and damage. Obviously. My point was - why on earth is Mermaids then allowed to send kids binders without permission and suffer no consequences whatever? The reply I received from one ghoul said that children are consenting to this so it’s fine, that they are allowed to choose how they dress and express themselves and ‘they have bodily autonomy.’ I pointed out the fking obvious- binders are not ‘clothes’, cause physical harm, kids don’t have blanket bodily autonomy and cannot consent to, for example, sex. The loathsome creature then replied to say amongst other things that ‘you don’t own kids sweetie.’ Made my flesh crawl. These people are vile.
Even now Mermaids are still saying binders are completely safe and so are puberty blockers. So there you go. Oh and Prince Harry is backing Mermaids. Clueless🤡
I am a youth worker and have run several lgbT and just T projects . The lack of any sort of meaningful exploration from the NHS with young people who want to transition blew my mind and we offered another side to this discussion with conversations about gender stereotypes and gender norms. One of the saddest things I’ve ever seen was a young person wearing a binder who was asthmatic and had been to the dr once before being referred to the Tavistock. They had so much bruising and damage from the binder and were given testosterone. Due to have too surgery the reality’s of what was actually going to happen to this persons body set in and they decided to dr transition, 4 years later they are still suffering the side effects of Testosterone, the reminder that they has transitioned for a period and changed their name is constant when applying for CRB check and driving licence and they still have scars where the binder literally cut into their chest from the sheer force of the elastic. This person is one of many I have and continue to work with who go down the route of medical transition but then change their minds. Against the force of stonewall and of all sorts a more local lgbt organisation it is hard for us to speak about these issues openly but with the young people we support we always discuss all options and feelings etc about gender and gender identities. Sorry for the long potentially irrelevant message but the binder issue is something that really does make me so sad for these young people.
I found the final episode of Sex Education on Netflix very uncomfortable - discussion re binding ‘safely’ between two pupils as if there is a safe way of doing it. Irresponsible. They used bandages as opposed to a binder.
Let's call them what they are; 21st century corsets. Preventing deep breathing, causing malformations of ribs (hello, tribes that made young women wear necklaces to distort their neck length, teeth filing in various remote rainforests, Chinese foot-binding. and the tradition, all over the world, of feeding male members of family first)
A new James Esses interview at this link, attempts to promote actual sanity"
It’s interesting that ‘girldick’ is allowed but ‘boybreasts’ aren’t, rather like if a female teacher wore a giant prosthetic penis, it wouldn’t be considered ok. Or would it? Why on earth would there be a difference between these examples? We are told chest binders are essential for mental health, but I thought it wasn’t a mental illness? So many questions, but no debate.
Why would a girl need to bind her breasts if gender isn't sex, and out of all the hundreds of supposed genders why do these physical interventions always serve to support one of two choices - either resembling a male or resembling a female - a binary FFS? And while I'm on a rant, why aren't Mermaids mailing out bollock flatteners for boys? Where are the steel-sprung budgie smugglers to help the lads express their true inner selves?
Liverpool ‘Lush’ were distributing binders at one point. Dunno if they still are - could have been the local franchiser’s decision. I asked in another store & they’d heard nothing about it.
You’d think handing out binders to young women would be against their anti-animal cruelty / cosmetics / pro Mother Nature position as they cause physical damage & add to the concept of ‘being in the wrong body’. I understand why females want to wear them (to escape the male gaze / freedom of movement etc) but a Corporation whose business is retailing planet -friendly cosmetics has no business handing out potentially harmful items. They can affect your breathing - which apart from being a little necessary in its own right, also affects you if you play a wind instrument / you sing ; they can break ribs or bruise ribs, affect your back, shoulders and neck & make you lightheaded. They shouldn’t be worn for long periods of time. They’re used on the pathway to transition; but often females on that path often have their breasts removed and stop at that because they don’t actually want to be men. It’s body dysmorphia rather than gender dysphoria. Sexism is the root cause we should be looking at - not encouraging mass surgery.
A person may use binding as a way to affirm their gender identity. People who are transgender or nonbinary may find that binding helps them feel more comfortable with their bodies.
Although some trans and nonbinary individuals use chest binding, it is not necessary for everyone. There is no right or wrong way to be trans, and a person can express their identity in the way that suits them best.
A woman stating that Mermaids not sending out breast binders isn't illegal, comparing it to teenagers being given contraception. Stating gender dysphoria presents risk of suicide. Others pushing back stating contraception doesn't break ribs and requires assessment and advice by trained medical professional. Another tweet stating breast binders are 'just glorified sports bras'🙄
“I ask Corrin about a photo they posted of themself in a chest binder last July along with a caption about safe binding practices. Posting anything to Instagram about gender identity can be “really scary,” they say, and the July post prompted a flood of comments, not all of them respectful. “In my mind, gender just isn’t something that feels fixed,” they say, “and I don’t know if it ever will be; there might always be some fluidity there for me.” “
A public library in Hannover, Germany, has brochures on binding and tucking on display, visible for children and young adults. Sorry, all sources in German:
One bloke tried to draw parallels between gymnasts and ballerinas in terms of physical damage! 'So would you stop your child from doing ballet?' These people are insane.
This article takes the standard route of ‘it’s so brave and such good representation but also please ask a doctor if you have scoliosis, asthma, or any breathing problems’ right at the end in a Tony’s disclaimer before saying ‘watch Netflix now!’
I have asked breastfeeding organisation La Leche League International what their position on breastbinding is on several occasions and received no response. They publish quite a number of articles on trans breastfeeding but avoid this uncomfortable conversation because it is quite obviously extremely unhealthy to bind breasts which are producing milk.
Kellymom.com (a popular site for breastfeeding support in the US but much used by UK mothers has the following) on binding:
'A trans man who has not had top surgery may choose to bind his chest in order to flatten it, thereby managing his gender dysphoria. Many years of binding may adversely affect the glandular tissue [It doesn't take 'many years' to cause damage does it?]. Binding during the immediate postpartum period will increase the risk of blocked ducts and mastitis and may damage the milk supply. [As an ex breastfeeding counsellor, I'd say this would be more than likely and might also lead to abscess]. However, some individuals have had success with occasional, careful binding once the milk supply is well established and regulated. [How do you define 'careful binding'? I cannot understand how any one who understands breastfeeding could suggest such a thing.] Anyone who practices binding during the lactation period should be advised of the risks of doing so, and should monitor the health of their chest closely.'[So contradicting what she just said with regards to a bit of binding being OK.]
“Even that was still extremely difficult to put on. You get used to it, though. The tightness is a double-edged sword — sometimes you feel like you’re being suffocated, but at other times a binder feels like a close hug.”
Loads of examples in this article from NYT.
And of course the lovely not emotionally manipulative article title: ‘It’s binding or suicide’
We could all do with that teacher in Canada wearing a breast binder.
Ooh Pink News have said 'breast binder' and not chest binder - how transphobic.
I just had an absolutely insane interaction with some lunatic this evening. I blocked them in the end. Too upsetting. I pointed out that the new safeguarding guidance for teachers now lists breast ironing/flattening as a form of abuse that we have to look out for and report. It is, apparently, a practice in some communities. Ironically it is apparently done largely by women to girls to enable girls to escape sexual attention and in some way protect them from sexual assault. But it is abuse and causes physical pain and damage. Obviously. My point was - why on earth is Mermaids then allowed to send kids binders without permission and suffer no consequences whatever? The reply I received from one ghoul said that children are consenting to this so it’s fine, that they are allowed to choose how they dress and express themselves and ‘they have bodily autonomy.’ I pointed out the fking obvious- binders are not ‘clothes’, cause physical harm, kids don’t have blanket bodily autonomy and cannot consent to, for example, sex. The loathsome creature then replied to say amongst other things that ‘you don’t own kids sweetie.’ Made my flesh crawl. These people are vile.
Even now Mermaids are still saying binders are completely safe and so are puberty blockers. So there you go. Oh and Prince Harry is backing Mermaids. Clueless🤡
Not an example, but I always wondered how Chinese foot-binding became a thing. Now I know.
Emma Corrin did a whole “I’m non binary” shoot in Vogue magazine, lots of “glamour fashion” shots in a very loose binder.
Disturbing
My phone isn’t letting me link sorry.
I am a youth worker and have run several lgbT and just T projects . The lack of any sort of meaningful exploration from the NHS with young people who want to transition blew my mind and we offered another side to this discussion with conversations about gender stereotypes and gender norms. One of the saddest things I’ve ever seen was a young person wearing a binder who was asthmatic and had been to the dr once before being referred to the Tavistock. They had so much bruising and damage from the binder and were given testosterone. Due to have too surgery the reality’s of what was actually going to happen to this persons body set in and they decided to dr transition, 4 years later they are still suffering the side effects of Testosterone, the reminder that they has transitioned for a period and changed their name is constant when applying for CRB check and driving licence and they still have scars where the binder literally cut into their chest from the sheer force of the elastic. This person is one of many I have and continue to work with who go down the route of medical transition but then change their minds. Against the force of stonewall and of all sorts a more local lgbt organisation it is hard for us to speak about these issues openly but with the young people we support we always discuss all options and feelings etc about gender and gender identities. Sorry for the long potentially irrelevant message but the binder issue is something that really does make me so sad for these young people.
I found the final episode of Sex Education on Netflix very uncomfortable - discussion re binding ‘safely’ between two pupils as if there is a safe way of doing it. Irresponsible. They used bandages as opposed to a binder.
The preferred term apparently is "chest binders" because trans-men don't like to admit they have -- shudder -- "breasts".
https://www.andyamor.com/collections/chest-binders
Let's call them what they are; 21st century corsets. Preventing deep breathing, causing malformations of ribs (hello, tribes that made young women wear necklaces to distort their neck length, teeth filing in various remote rainforests, Chinese foot-binding. and the tradition, all over the world, of feeding male members of family first)
A new James Esses interview at this link, attempts to promote actual sanity"
https://wordpress.com/post/uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com/4740
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods. True Tales from a Grass Widow (iuniverse, 2022)
uteheggengrasswidow.wordpress.com
You have probably seen it but for everyone else...
Statement in response to a Telegraph article published Sunday 25 September
https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/statement-in-response-to-a-telegraph-article-published-sunday-25-september/
It’s interesting that ‘girldick’ is allowed but ‘boybreasts’ aren’t, rather like if a female teacher wore a giant prosthetic penis, it wouldn’t be considered ok. Or would it? Why on earth would there be a difference between these examples? We are told chest binders are essential for mental health, but I thought it wasn’t a mental illness? So many questions, but no debate.
Why would a girl need to bind her breasts if gender isn't sex, and out of all the hundreds of supposed genders why do these physical interventions always serve to support one of two choices - either resembling a male or resembling a female - a binary FFS? And while I'm on a rant, why aren't Mermaids mailing out bollock flatteners for boys? Where are the steel-sprung budgie smugglers to help the lads express their true inner selves?
Liverpool ‘Lush’ were distributing binders at one point. Dunno if they still are - could have been the local franchiser’s decision. I asked in another store & they’d heard nothing about it.
You’d think handing out binders to young women would be against their anti-animal cruelty / cosmetics / pro Mother Nature position as they cause physical damage & add to the concept of ‘being in the wrong body’. I understand why females want to wear them (to escape the male gaze / freedom of movement etc) but a Corporation whose business is retailing planet -friendly cosmetics has no business handing out potentially harmful items. They can affect your breathing - which apart from being a little necessary in its own right, also affects you if you play a wind instrument / you sing ; they can break ribs or bruise ribs, affect your back, shoulders and neck & make you lightheaded. They shouldn’t be worn for long periods of time. They’re used on the pathway to transition; but often females on that path often have their breasts removed and stop at that because they don’t actually want to be men. It’s body dysmorphia rather than gender dysphoria. Sexism is the root cause we should be looking at - not encouraging mass surgery.
From the bc gov’t health authority website
http://www.phsa.ca/transcarebc/care-support/transitioning/bind-pack-tuck-pad
http://www.phsa.ca/transcarebc/Documents/HealthProf/Binding-Handout.pdf
Not the drawbacks do NOT include anything actually bad like rib compression or fractures, difficulty exercising etc.
What is binding, and how can I do it safely?
A person may use binding as a way to affirm their gender identity. People who are transgender or nonbinary may find that binding helps them feel more comfortable with their bodies.
Although some trans and nonbinary individuals use chest binding, it is not necessary for everyone. There is no right or wrong way to be trans, and a person can express their identity in the way that suits them best.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/breast-binding#overview
Possible risks of unsafe chest binding include:
chest pain
scarring
overheating
shortness of breath
a buildup of fluid in the lungs
reduced exercise tolerance
difficulty speaking
broken ribs
back pain
skin issues
https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/caa/child-abuse/breast-ironing-flattening/ The Met call it child abuse
This is interesting..
https://twitter.com/firewomon/status/1574414992635580417
A woman stating that Mermaids not sending out breast binders isn't illegal, comparing it to teenagers being given contraception. Stating gender dysphoria presents risk of suicide. Others pushing back stating contraception doesn't break ribs and requires assessment and advice by trained medical professional. Another tweet stating breast binders are 'just glorified sports bras'🙄
Sent you a couple of examples.
Might have been insta:
“I ask Corrin about a photo they posted of themself in a chest binder last July along with a caption about safe binding practices. Posting anything to Instagram about gender identity can be “really scary,” they say, and the July post prompted a flood of comments, not all of them respectful. “In my mind, gender just isn’t something that feels fixed,” they say, “and I don’t know if it ever will be; there might always be some fluidity there for me.” “
https://www.vogue.com/article/emma-corrin-august-2022-cover
https://twitter.com/I_will_debate_u/status/1574421155955593217?s=20&t=8f5HNqKF6i62256DMvcIPw
https://twitter.com/stormtroopers99/status/1574455424853708824?s=12
Couple of tweets in a thread I commented on.
https://twitter.com/thenameishyde/status/1574318415111606272?t=Djszu_yeT4aSvvkP-0-oyw&s=19
https://twitter.com/KatyMontgomerie/status/1574346589044461573?t=kr-5Z5jAQ5ZStZDTrVmyqg&s=19
https://4w.pub/australian-charity-sends-harmful-breast-binders-to-girls/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/06/emma-corrin-pictured-wearing-chest-binder/
A public library in Hannover, Germany, has brochures on binding and tucking on display, visible for children and young adults. Sorry, all sources in German:
https://twitter.com/leih_verkehr/status/1572168697040470017?s=46&t=U3uCEPAWr-bpyjbsCCG1jQ
https://www.haz.de/lokales/hannover/transidentitaet-in-hannover-dieses-glossar-hilft-in-der-oeffentlichen-debatte-UHWIJ46X2ROLSQVE3RWAMS4ZZE.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1664009139
One bloke tried to draw parallels between gymnasts and ballerinas in terms of physical damage! 'So would you stop your child from doing ballet?' These people are insane.
Mousely Logical...goes illogically fallacious. Binders good, other lady-things bad.
https://twitter.com/BlueMouseEeek/status/1574354480896049152?t=p1hTMPKmG45odKutPMs-mA&s=19
Netflix’s ‘Sex Education’ season 3 had an oh-so brave and oh-so-nuanced plot about binders and the difficulties of being non-binary. https://www.newsweek.com/chest-binders-sex-education-season-3-gender-identity-1629032?amp=1
This article takes the standard route of ‘it’s so brave and such good representation but also please ask a doctor if you have scoliosis, asthma, or any breathing problems’ right at the end in a Tony’s disclaimer before saying ‘watch Netflix now!’
another one. https://twitter.com/Alpha_RatsNest/status/1574513061112688640?s=20&t=eZ04AFuWcUBWm1rANbCewQ
https://www.instagram.com/p/CfZBFQqDx-p/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= This appears to acknowledge the dangers but suggest it's ok if you limit the time you do it. Nowhere is this time specified.
I have asked breastfeeding organisation La Leche League International what their position on breastbinding is on several occasions and received no response. They publish quite a number of articles on trans breastfeeding but avoid this uncomfortable conversation because it is quite obviously extremely unhealthy to bind breasts which are producing milk.
Kellymom.com (a popular site for breastfeeding support in the US but much used by UK mothers has the following) on binding:
'A trans man who has not had top surgery may choose to bind his chest in order to flatten it, thereby managing his gender dysphoria. Many years of binding may adversely affect the glandular tissue [It doesn't take 'many years' to cause damage does it?]. Binding during the immediate postpartum period will increase the risk of blocked ducts and mastitis and may damage the milk supply. [As an ex breastfeeding counsellor, I'd say this would be more than likely and might also lead to abscess]. However, some individuals have had success with occasional, careful binding once the milk supply is well established and regulated. [How do you define 'careful binding'? I cannot understand how any one who understands breastfeeding could suggest such a thing.] Anyone who practices binding during the lactation period should be advised of the risks of doing so, and should monitor the health of their chest closely.'[So contradicting what she just said with regards to a bit of binding being OK.]
“Even that was still extremely difficult to put on. You get used to it, though. The tightness is a double-edged sword — sometimes you feel like you’re being suffocated, but at other times a binder feels like a close hug.”
Loads of examples in this article from NYT.
And of course the lovely not emotionally manipulative article title: ‘It’s binding or suicide’
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/reader-center/chest-binding.amp.html
https://64.media.tumblr.com/0a6ce47eae3e6f6944cfed53b5ab1add/e6c18ac4e2c68e42-f5/s1280x1920/b0df156e1a9b256f012dbea4a940b64b7417b582.jpg A shame the username is redacted. He's almost onto realising that there might be some overlap between the people who wear binders And high heels...
This guy on twitter saying binders are “shirts”
https://twitter.com/i_will_debate_u/status/1574396591657684992?s=46&t=3B9uHf4pRYJz-KHL0b0aCg
This popped up on twitter here https://twitter.com/thervt/status/1572974254060179458?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q in the comments this ensued here https://twitter.com/KyuHusky/status/1574295124896522243?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q read the comment replies to KyuHusky, I'm Apple Pi I think she walked herself right into it. Lol.
This popped up on twitter here https://twitter.com/thervt/status/1572974254060179458?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q in the comments this ensued here https://twitter.com/KyuHusky/status/1574295124896522243?s=20&t=YN7xstNo3ZtGeNe2Eu4M8Q read the comment replies to KyuHusky, I'm Apple Pi I think she walked herself right into it. Lol.
https://transgenderni.org.uk/binder-scheme/ https://twitter.com/TransgenderNI/status/1391832009916485633
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7xzpxx/chest-binding-health-project-inside-landmark-overdue-transgender-study
Another one. The fetishists are getting upset.
https://twitter.com/satanicqueer92/status/1574507205281214465?s=20&t=eZ04AFuWcUBWm1rANbCewQ