That's so encouraging to hear. I'm old (a lot older than 25 anyway) and it's easy to believe everyone under 30 has been captured by this nonsense if social media is anything to go by.
Maybe he should have asked what was so terrible that the 77 year old standing next to me felt you had to stand for 3 hours holding a banner. Was proud to be there today and will be there till she is freed.
I read a post on Mumsnet once that I've never forgotten: a woman arguing that the reason older women are so vilified and men clutch so hard to the idea that older women are worthless is not just because they attach worth to attractiveness. It's because older women are the ones who get between young women and paedophiles, who pay attention to and interfere with grooming, who protected girls from Saville and Epstein. We are 'terfs' and 'Karens' for a reason: we must be discredited because we stop men getting what they want.
older women when we speak out, remind men of their mothers telling them off, a 'telling off' that is at same time protecting them. like telling a child not to run into the road.
Bin Chicken, I just posted a comment here, a few minutes before seeing yours. The same thing was confirmed to me by self-identified pedophiles having conversations on Twitter. BBC of course, has a lovely history of protecting these men.
I’m 38, but look a bit young for my age (though I’ve been through enough shit- rape, abuse, ptsd, followed by a relationship with a 40-something teenage boy- in these past five years alone that I’m not as comparatively young-looking as I once was; on a good day I could *maybe* pass for 25, the rest of the time 30, or early 30ish).
Sexist men- of all ages- are always shocked at how much I cannot stand their shit. I am very different than I was as a young woman, though it’s still a struggle. It’s horrendously difficult dating men. If they’re not spectacularly dangerous, they’re still often quite sexist and hurtful. In any case.
Women’s “baggage” as we get older is having had to deal with men’s horrific shit, from rape and sexual assault and harassment to physical violence to everyday, constant sexism, and doing the brunt of physical and emotional labor, all from and for the people who are supposed to love us.
Men’s “baggage” is usually having had to deal with women not putting up with said shit from them, and reacting in less than pleasant ways. (I know there are genuinely abusive women, but not many). I recently read a study analyzing men’s claims of domestic violence. They included “nagging” about cleanup, and saying no to their male partner’s ideas and suggestions regarding use of funds and care of children. I kid you not. This is what these men termed “abuse.”
Remember too much, more like. Older than 60 and you're likely to remember a time when you got paid 2/3rds of what a man got for doing the same work, couldn't get a mortgage or a loan without a male guarantor, had to get a much higher mark to pass the 11+, couldn't get contraceptives if you were single, and could only get them if you were married if your husband consent. When judges had to remind juries when summing up that women are likely to lie, when there were professional quotas against too many women....
The young women I work with think these rights have always been in place, they do not know that women had to fight for Every Single Right that they benefit from. Despite #MeToo and the Handmaiden's Tale. they haven't put it together yet that large numbers of men hate women sufficiently to organise to bring on Gilead.
I was there, and I'm in my mid-thirties. And I spoke to rather a few other women in their thirties. And who gives a fucking shit anyway. I can't bloody wait to be an 'old woman' (i.e. 40+.....FFS!) - they are fucking awesome. Apologies for the language. This 30-something-year-old has driven from Liverpool to Glasgow and back in one day. (And has lots of 30-something-year-old-friends and relatives who agree with me...but they can't turn up to things like this because they might be fired or have to leave their kids for two years for a stint in prison because of ribbons).
I’m 49. It’s nice to know that a BBC journalist thinks that this “old” woman’s opinions aren’t as valid as “young” women’s. Looks like the BBC’s mission to make women of a certain age invisible is continuing with gusto. Great.
BBC Journalist is being somewhat discriminatory with the age comment. Younger women probably ARE aware and not happy - but due to being younger, are more nervous of speaking out.
My response to BBC Journalist would have been that s/he was being ageist as well as a misogynist and maybe they should reframe their thinking on both topics before commenting.
I'm 48. Appalling that a journalist for a state broadcaster should condemn an entire group of people as irrelevant based on age and sex. Next they'll be saying women should be euthanized if we don't pass a fuckability test.
Whoever this journalist is - clearly anti older females whilst paid for by the public purse and supposedly therefore neutral - they should be named and asked to explain their comment.
Ye dinae hivtae be that 'auld' any female over fanciable and accessible age tae men ... is ignored/invisible. It was ever thus. Notable exceptions no included Graham 😁
Maybe that young man from the BBC should remind himself that it is the older women who pay the TV Licence that pays his wages. Those younger women tend to use online services and I wonder how many bother to read the BBC web site.
Even if it's *true, that only 'old' women oppose gender identity ideology, declaring "People who lack maturity and life experience disagree with you" really isn't the gotcha they think it is.
*It isn't. I know plenty of teens and twenty-somethings who know it's all utter bum-wash.
'Older women' isn't an argument at the other end of the spectrum, when young girls are given hormone blockers. Would a BBC journalist tell Keira Bell it's all older women that agrees with her?
Oh FFS! Do the journalists not realise that the younger women are at work and, having seen what is happening to Marion, probably think it is just too dangerous to be visible. People have rent, mortgages, childcare etc to pay for - it's only us women of a certain age with nothing left to lose that can afford to speak out. It's bad enough being labelled a bigoted transphobe and face losing your job or income, another thing entirely to risk a criminal prosecution hanging over you (without even been told what the charges are until the day you appear in court).
Yes that last bit has bewildered me from the start of this mess. Does anyone know if this is a particular Scottish law thing that an accused can be kept in the dark in this way until it's too late to prepare a defence? Seems a monstrous lack of justice to me, a trial which follows such a procedure is bound to be weighted in favour of the prosecution. Or is it just par for the course that the charges are read on the first day after which defense counsel requests a deferment which almost automatically gets granted?
I suppose that's their evidence and they produce it now the case has started. Normally when someone is charged with a crime you would know exactly what you had or hadn't done. This is the added problem when they're trying to contrive a criminal charge from nothing much. It's all very weird and even more scarey thinking the police and courts are entertaining this nonsense.
Well I reached pensionable age today and I'm a man. I can't help either fact, so if anyone wishes to decry my support for Marion because (a) I'm old; and (b) I'm a man, they'll simply have to get over it. Rejection of injustice and oppression is not age-sensitive. Asinine bastards.
Wow! “Young women disagree with you.” Young women might be less likely to speak up for various reasons - start of the their career, not wanting to risk friendships, concerned with being popular, etc., but that doesn’t mean they don’t agree. I’m 32 and know younger people who know gender ideology is nonsense, and know older people who have fallen for it. Rather than age it seems to be how much someone cares about being seen as progressive and open minded that determines whether or not they allow themselves to accept the issue with gender ideology.
I feel very moved by all the images of the day, people may not realise it but so much hangs on this. One can only hope that the ongoing pain is rewarded by legal precedent that means no one else can ever go through this.
As for the age thing - that is classic - it’s like how all old people were blamed for brexit. They were nazis too weren’t they, so maybe it is all being positioned that the old are to blame for everything the London echo chamber bubble doesn’t like.
I hate that these elitist idiots think they get to speak on our behalf. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm indoctrinated into reality denying postmodern bullshit! And I want nothing to do with their ageism either, thanks. I don't even watch the BBC because it's archaic and I have other means of finding news and debate which doesn't involve their vile sneering or misogyny. That they think they represent young people at this point is so hilariously lacking in self awareness that it's farcical!
Older women are often retired, so the Trans Taliban cannot remove us from our jobs, or destroy our reputations/future careers. I think MANY younger women are with us, but are too scared to say a word against what is happening. It's like living in East Germany, before The Wall came down...everyone terrified/watching/suspicious, all brought out by deep fear and that deep fear is there due to those who scream 'bigot/facist/transphobe' at anyone who DARES to speak out.
Older women ain't frightened, not even of life sentences..... #IStandWithMarionMillar
😄 Trans Taliban yes that's a good one! And indeed it has to be said- the extremist faction of trans rights are to LGBT exactly what the Taliban are to Islam. This show trial seems politically designed to inculcate fear and coerce obedience and silence. If that's what the young generation stand for then they're going to be sorry one day they didn't listen to the elder. Because they're going to get older too and a new generation will come after them. I so desperately hope for their sake this is going to backfire on the perpetrators and the snake pit of Scottish politics which has reintroduced this mediaevalism and made such an abomination at all possible.
And I have my doubts in any case that this feeble BBC reporter knows the younger generation as well as (s)he seems to believe.
Well, I'm a young woman (25) and I know *lots* of other young women who are with Marion!
I’ve got a bit on you but still under 40 and know others !
That's so encouraging to hear. I'm old (a lot older than 25 anyway) and it's easy to believe everyone under 30 has been captured by this nonsense if social media is anything to go by.
Maybe he should have asked what was so terrible that the 77 year old standing next to me felt you had to stand for 3 hours holding a banner. Was proud to be there today and will be there till she is freed.
I read a post on Mumsnet once that I've never forgotten: a woman arguing that the reason older women are so vilified and men clutch so hard to the idea that older women are worthless is not just because they attach worth to attractiveness. It's because older women are the ones who get between young women and paedophiles, who pay attention to and interfere with grooming, who protected girls from Saville and Epstein. We are 'terfs' and 'Karens' for a reason: we must be discredited because we stop men getting what they want.
I love that idea. Woman as disruptor in the best sense.
older women when we speak out, remind men of their mothers telling them off, a 'telling off' that is at same time protecting them. like telling a child not to run into the road.
Bin Chicken, I just posted a comment here, a few minutes before seeing yours. The same thing was confirmed to me by self-identified pedophiles having conversations on Twitter. BBC of course, has a lovely history of protecting these men.
I love the meme I saw a while ago - "Never pick a fight with a woman older than 40. They are full of rage and sick of everyone's shit."
I’m 38, but look a bit young for my age (though I’ve been through enough shit- rape, abuse, ptsd, followed by a relationship with a 40-something teenage boy- in these past five years alone that I’m not as comparatively young-looking as I once was; on a good day I could *maybe* pass for 25, the rest of the time 30, or early 30ish).
Sexist men- of all ages- are always shocked at how much I cannot stand their shit. I am very different than I was as a young woman, though it’s still a struggle. It’s horrendously difficult dating men. If they’re not spectacularly dangerous, they’re still often quite sexist and hurtful. In any case.
Women’s “baggage” as we get older is having had to deal with men’s horrific shit, from rape and sexual assault and harassment to physical violence to everyday, constant sexism, and doing the brunt of physical and emotional labor, all from and for the people who are supposed to love us.
Men’s “baggage” is usually having had to deal with women not putting up with said shit from them, and reacting in less than pleasant ways. (I know there are genuinely abusive women, but not many). I recently read a study analyzing men’s claims of domestic violence. They included “nagging” about cleanup, and saying no to their male partner’s ideas and suggestions regarding use of funds and care of children. I kid you not. This is what these men termed “abuse.”
Their poor wives.
and know too much
Remember too much, more like. Older than 60 and you're likely to remember a time when you got paid 2/3rds of what a man got for doing the same work, couldn't get a mortgage or a loan without a male guarantor, had to get a much higher mark to pass the 11+, couldn't get contraceptives if you were single, and could only get them if you were married if your husband consent. When judges had to remind juries when summing up that women are likely to lie, when there were professional quotas against too many women....
The young women I work with think these rights have always been in place, they do not know that women had to fight for Every Single Right that they benefit from. Despite #MeToo and the Handmaiden's Tale. they haven't put it together yet that large numbers of men hate women sufficiently to organise to bring on Gilead.
Love this!
I was there, and I'm in my mid-thirties. And I spoke to rather a few other women in their thirties. And who gives a fucking shit anyway. I can't bloody wait to be an 'old woman' (i.e. 40+.....FFS!) - they are fucking awesome. Apologies for the language. This 30-something-year-old has driven from Liverpool to Glasgow and back in one day. (And has lots of 30-something-year-old-friends and relatives who agree with me...but they can't turn up to things like this because they might be fired or have to leave their kids for two years for a stint in prison because of ribbons).
I’m 49. It’s nice to know that a BBC journalist thinks that this “old” woman’s opinions aren’t as valid as “young” women’s. Looks like the BBC’s mission to make women of a certain age invisible is continuing with gusto. Great.
BBC Journalist is being somewhat discriminatory with the age comment. Younger women probably ARE aware and not happy - but due to being younger, are more nervous of speaking out.
My response to BBC Journalist would have been that s/he was being ageist as well as a misogynist and maybe they should reframe their thinking on both topics before commenting.
I'm 48. Appalling that a journalist for a state broadcaster should condemn an entire group of people as irrelevant based on age and sex. Next they'll be saying women should be euthanized if we don't pass a fuckability test.
Whoever this journalist is - clearly anti older females whilst paid for by the public purse and supposedly therefore neutral - they should be named and asked to explain their comment.
Ye dinae hivtae be that 'auld' any female over fanciable and accessible age tae men ... is ignored/invisible. It was ever thus. Notable exceptions no included Graham 😁
“They’re all old aren’t they? Young women disagree with you.” not the young women I know.
Exactly - my daughter, her girlfriend, my daughter in law - all under 35!
Maybe that young man from the BBC should remind himself that it is the older women who pay the TV Licence that pays his wages. Those younger women tend to use online services and I wonder how many bother to read the BBC web site.
And given today is a working day, one guesses that most younger women were at work.
My thought when aa first read it. It was still a disrespectful question.
Even if it's *true, that only 'old' women oppose gender identity ideology, declaring "People who lack maturity and life experience disagree with you" really isn't the gotcha they think it is.
*It isn't. I know plenty of teens and twenty-somethings who know it's all utter bum-wash.
'Older women' isn't an argument at the other end of the spectrum, when young girls are given hormone blockers. Would a BBC journalist tell Keira Bell it's all older women that agrees with her?
That's the truth.
Oh FFS! Do the journalists not realise that the younger women are at work and, having seen what is happening to Marion, probably think it is just too dangerous to be visible. People have rent, mortgages, childcare etc to pay for - it's only us women of a certain age with nothing left to lose that can afford to speak out. It's bad enough being labelled a bigoted transphobe and face losing your job or income, another thing entirely to risk a criminal prosecution hanging over you (without even been told what the charges are until the day you appear in court).
That's exactly what I thought Ellen - it's a weekday morning and so many people work in "captured" institutions/ businesses they're scared.
Yes that last bit has bewildered me from the start of this mess. Does anyone know if this is a particular Scottish law thing that an accused can be kept in the dark in this way until it's too late to prepare a defence? Seems a monstrous lack of justice to me, a trial which follows such a procedure is bound to be weighted in favour of the prosecution. Or is it just par for the course that the charges are read on the first day after which defense counsel requests a deferment which almost automatically gets granted?
I suppose that's their evidence and they produce it now the case has started. Normally when someone is charged with a crime you would know exactly what you had or hadn't done. This is the added problem when they're trying to contrive a criminal charge from nothing much. It's all very weird and even more scarey thinking the police and courts are entertaining this nonsense.
BURN THE WITCH!!
"A BBC journalist approached me and said “They’re all old aren’t they? Young women disagree with you.”
FIDDLE-FADDLING WHILE ROME BURNS . . .
“You don’t know who agrees with what because on the day Marion Millar is going through this, they’re talking about curries on Woman’s Hour.”
Well I reached pensionable age today and I'm a man. I can't help either fact, so if anyone wishes to decry my support for Marion because (a) I'm old; and (b) I'm a man, they'll simply have to get over it. Rejection of injustice and oppression is not age-sensitive. Asinine bastards.
Happy birthday
Why thank you!
Wow! “Young women disagree with you.” Young women might be less likely to speak up for various reasons - start of the their career, not wanting to risk friendships, concerned with being popular, etc., but that doesn’t mean they don’t agree. I’m 32 and know younger people who know gender ideology is nonsense, and know older people who have fallen for it. Rather than age it seems to be how much someone cares about being seen as progressive and open minded that determines whether or not they allow themselves to accept the issue with gender ideology.
And who is this person to speak for all younger women?
I'm old. Old and outraged.
I feel very moved by all the images of the day, people may not realise it but so much hangs on this. One can only hope that the ongoing pain is rewarded by legal precedent that means no one else can ever go through this.
As for the age thing - that is classic - it’s like how all old people were blamed for brexit. They were nazis too weren’t they, so maybe it is all being positioned that the old are to blame for everything the London echo chamber bubble doesn’t like.
I hate that these elitist idiots think they get to speak on our behalf. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm indoctrinated into reality denying postmodern bullshit! And I want nothing to do with their ageism either, thanks. I don't even watch the BBC because it's archaic and I have other means of finding news and debate which doesn't involve their vile sneering or misogyny. That they think they represent young people at this point is so hilariously lacking in self awareness that it's farcical!
Older women are often retired, so the Trans Taliban cannot remove us from our jobs, or destroy our reputations/future careers. I think MANY younger women are with us, but are too scared to say a word against what is happening. It's like living in East Germany, before The Wall came down...everyone terrified/watching/suspicious, all brought out by deep fear and that deep fear is there due to those who scream 'bigot/facist/transphobe' at anyone who DARES to speak out.
Older women ain't frightened, not even of life sentences..... #IStandWithMarionMillar
😄 Trans Taliban yes that's a good one! And indeed it has to be said- the extremist faction of trans rights are to LGBT exactly what the Taliban are to Islam. This show trial seems politically designed to inculcate fear and coerce obedience and silence. If that's what the young generation stand for then they're going to be sorry one day they didn't listen to the elder. Because they're going to get older too and a new generation will come after them. I so desperately hope for their sake this is going to backfire on the perpetrators and the snake pit of Scottish politics which has reintroduced this mediaevalism and made such an abomination at all possible.
And I have my doubts in any case that this feeble BBC reporter knows the younger generation as well as (s)he seems to believe.
I'm in my fifties and every single woman (and man) I know is against cockfrockers and their vile fetish.
Ooooh I LOVE that phrase! "cockfrockers" - so utterly perfect! :-D
(and yes it is a vile fetish).
Think I got it off Instagram. Going down a storm there too 😂🤣😂
Just run it by my mum ~ she approves 🤣🤣🎶