Yes, absolutely. Spatial analysis, we were literally only exposed to those who could access us with those physical locations or older forms of tech. We had perverts phoning us up or stealing underwear from washing lines and exposing themselves in the street. And local communities knew. An older lady was talking to me by chance about the …
Yes, absolutely. Spatial analysis, we were literally only exposed to those who could access us with those physical locations or older forms of tech. We had perverts phoning us up or stealing underwear from washing lines and exposing themselves in the street. And local communities knew. An older lady was talking to me by chance about the local bobby who knew who the 'local pervert' and 'flasher' was. And we were taught and learnt warnings and to be wary (not that this can ever stop a determined abuser). Genderology has so many similarities to the Catholic Church and the way that too was and still is covered up. I was not allowed to be in rooms alone with some 'family priests' and it was 'managed' as best it could be. Everyone knew why, but only in my older teen years did I realise exactly why and things are still being revealed 50 years after events that happened before I was born. We have forgotten or not be bothered to learn those lessons at our peril. I cannot bear the sometimes deliberate naivety.
I am particularly interested in risk and behaviour and the application to public health in my work, so we are still trying to officially figure this out over twenty years (nearer 30) after it become so popular to move everything 'online'. I was an early adopter anyway for a few reasons and in the 90s forums when it was on the one hand geeky and an almost innocent time, but a steep learning curve, and those behaviours were there even back then. I am female and was actually taken more seriously in tech or 'male' fields, so when people then met me professionally in person for technical meetings (usually in groups of older men/men) the dynamic was quite different (what's a woman know about XYZ and I would be spoken over and credit for my work assumed to be by others). Tech and engineering has a high proportion of those who struggle with other forms of interaction and there is a lot of disturbing behaviour from successful or driven people so it was brilliant for many, but as you say, an open door with no safety measures and a heap of trust/identity checking failures that are both informal and formal that we go through in 'real' life.
When I used to chat with those who develop this online stuff, if you have kids, do your own kids use it? They were the ones saying 'no way' or 'only when they're old enough' and 'only for some things' decades ago.
The more parts of the world getting access later, which is allowing access and equality and all the good things like disease prevention and access to finance, they are also being thrown into the seedier and more damaging scam sides with fewer protections. And relatively much wealthier Western men have capitalised on that purchasing power. This is all in the hands of the few, so no wonder WPATH was full of male lawyers, business owners, surgeons, entrepreneurs, and software people.
Demon infested waters. I've heard the Vatican are still covering up for men like that, which does nothing to regain trust and respect. I happen to be just starting to look into Christianity, and am looking at the different types of churches, reading up on catechism and all that. I bet it's easier when you start as a child.
Yes. And you're right, it doesn't and many are still fighting to be heard. For me, well, it's familiar - so I think I tend to be slightly better at spotting (religious) indoctrination. It really takes your ability to flip your brain and believe (or not) the unthinkable that others are telling you isn't or can't be happening (but it is your experience, like abuse). It's in my lifetime that I had to keep quiet about my background for some jobs, or in some social groups and I wasn't really allowed to 'celebrate' Halloween or Guy Fawkes as a child. I still hear slurs now, and also about 'the Irish' within UK Government circles. Jokes about terrorism are not uncommon, or our supposed stupidity. I also get a bit annoyed when nice middle-class parents openly lie to get their kids into 'church' schools and then ask me what's going on having lied their way in. My friend's son was terrified about the crown of thorns and it was stopping him from sleeping. So much like that would terrify a small boy (and it used to me too as there were images up all around houses let alone the statues).
I was also part-in and part-out as my father was not of the same religion and then my parents divorced. I know a few who are lovely and happen to be of many other faiths, and quite a few 'lapsed' or less observant but very decent too. I do miss the better and definitely community aspects of faith and church which my grandparents and their communities relied on. I have been shown some amazing grace and kindness from some. But then from agnostics and atheists and those with no labels and beliefs too.
It sounds like being a Catholic child was not such an easy time of it. Speaking of images, I can remember twenty years back seeing life size alabaster crucifixes in church graveyards. It was quite surreal to me.
My childhood was Christian lite. A nan who made my parents get me christened in case I died and couldn't get into heaven, Hymns sung in school assembly, a mum who took us to a Methodist church because she wanted to make friends, and a grandma who believed in fairies. How does Catholicism stand on fairies I wonder.
Similar to my childhood in many respects as I was at a school where we sang hymns but it was very subtle and unforced and I sat with my Muslim friend who opted out of morning prayers and when I gave my reasoning I was allowed to sit and keep her company. My gran was apparently always sprinkling me with Holy water 'just in case' I wasn't being properly Catholic enough and shhh I was never baptised as a child and was also told I would go straight to hell by others who think that's a funny thing. My family were two sides of a sectarian divide. I have actually had these 'but what about fairies' and belief chats with nuns and priests and other fairly senior people who are much nicer, more welcoming and pragmatic. And also with hospital and other chaplains. I was in some ways protected by my mother due to her experiences, and so we weren't brought up 'in' the Church (still went to services and was confused by lots). My more Jesuitical and fairly unpleasant relative recently revealed how angry she still is at her for not letting us be 'in the fold' etc. Like we are lost sheep. My sister and I were viewed as outcasts. I feel very much for 'detransitioners' as being 'in' or 'ex' cultlike anything can be a hard route. I am not sure what I am now, I attended a church as an adult and then found it worse than Catholicism (it was Evangelical). And my great grandmother converted for love, so there we go.
A Catholic friend at Uni was shocked by my experiences and things had very much changed since - so you weren't/aren't ex-communicated for being divorced or with divorced parents and could receive blessings and be welcomed. I think I was still believing things that had actually changed - that shows how things can change despite your own little family or community holding on, especially true where you leave a country and hold the old ways dear. And a lot can change between generations.
Being in Ireland and seeing the shrines by the road taps into things we think going back Centuries - it's a mix of beliefs, spirituality and community. Very strangely I was discussing a large memorial to a relative of mine the other day - it was put up to remember someone who was much loved and that's what's supposed to be at the heart of all this.
Interesting. My Dad was baptised in his forties (I think something to do with an age crisis. Like he was panicking about turning forty. He jumped out of a plane at around the same time) he decided to stop going to church because of some dishonesty he’d noticed with the local priest and a visiting bishop. It was also to do with the eagerness of the congregation to believe or go along with the lies. I think that would be hard to tolerate, but I think it’s the human element that’s at fault rather than the religion itself. You say your experience felt cultish, have I got that right? That would be extremely off putting I think. About the fairies, I recently heard a podcast called Haunted Cosmos, made by a priest or deacon, can’t remember which, and his friend who’s of the same church. They went over the idea, and concluded that if God made everything then he made fairies too, possibly as caretakers of the environment. So there you go. I’ve heard a Scottish woman go through a story about fairies being fallen angels, which would probably be a way of weaving your original beliefs into the new beliefs.
It all is, isn't it? It helps when we can have a chance to listen, hear, and speak to each other and there's not enough of that, so we all end up at cross purposes. Someone in my family who was a very vocal atheist suddenly converted in his 60s I think, having criticised his wife, Catholicism and all that part of my family for decades, being fairly rude to my grandmother and other more observant in our family. So was then very zealous about that too of course. Religion is people; people are the religion. Someone wished me a happy Easter today (bit early, kind of wrong day but a nice, friendly intention) and I wished them Mubarak for when that happens and the end of his fast too as I probably won't see him again before then. I know some Arab and Middle Eastern Christians, who are now in the UK (and came to be safe/r). I quite like a theological, spiritual and humanist chat when I can :-)
Hard to explain, but yes, some elements cultish. It's also about class too and I find it very hard when some within churches (any 'community') are rude, cruel or unwelcoming (like all humans can be). Hard to explain, but it's about showing respect and some seem to want to offend and show disrespect to make some point. But then I've been welcomed in other countries and felt 'at home' with that welcome and some understanding of people's culture and faith (or none) helps with that. You reminded me of not just fairies or angels but also Sheela Na Gig - very interesting weaving of a lot of beliefs, myths and legends. Some things change, some things stay the same!
Yes, absolutely. Spatial analysis, we were literally only exposed to those who could access us with those physical locations or older forms of tech. We had perverts phoning us up or stealing underwear from washing lines and exposing themselves in the street. And local communities knew. An older lady was talking to me by chance about the local bobby who knew who the 'local pervert' and 'flasher' was. And we were taught and learnt warnings and to be wary (not that this can ever stop a determined abuser). Genderology has so many similarities to the Catholic Church and the way that too was and still is covered up. I was not allowed to be in rooms alone with some 'family priests' and it was 'managed' as best it could be. Everyone knew why, but only in my older teen years did I realise exactly why and things are still being revealed 50 years after events that happened before I was born. We have forgotten or not be bothered to learn those lessons at our peril. I cannot bear the sometimes deliberate naivety.
I am particularly interested in risk and behaviour and the application to public health in my work, so we are still trying to officially figure this out over twenty years (nearer 30) after it become so popular to move everything 'online'. I was an early adopter anyway for a few reasons and in the 90s forums when it was on the one hand geeky and an almost innocent time, but a steep learning curve, and those behaviours were there even back then. I am female and was actually taken more seriously in tech or 'male' fields, so when people then met me professionally in person for technical meetings (usually in groups of older men/men) the dynamic was quite different (what's a woman know about XYZ and I would be spoken over and credit for my work assumed to be by others). Tech and engineering has a high proportion of those who struggle with other forms of interaction and there is a lot of disturbing behaviour from successful or driven people so it was brilliant for many, but as you say, an open door with no safety measures and a heap of trust/identity checking failures that are both informal and formal that we go through in 'real' life.
When I used to chat with those who develop this online stuff, if you have kids, do your own kids use it? They were the ones saying 'no way' or 'only when they're old enough' and 'only for some things' decades ago.
The more parts of the world getting access later, which is allowing access and equality and all the good things like disease prevention and access to finance, they are also being thrown into the seedier and more damaging scam sides with fewer protections. And relatively much wealthier Western men have capitalised on that purchasing power. This is all in the hands of the few, so no wonder WPATH was full of male lawyers, business owners, surgeons, entrepreneurs, and software people.
Demon infested waters. I've heard the Vatican are still covering up for men like that, which does nothing to regain trust and respect. I happen to be just starting to look into Christianity, and am looking at the different types of churches, reading up on catechism and all that. I bet it's easier when you start as a child.
Yes. And you're right, it doesn't and many are still fighting to be heard. For me, well, it's familiar - so I think I tend to be slightly better at spotting (religious) indoctrination. It really takes your ability to flip your brain and believe (or not) the unthinkable that others are telling you isn't or can't be happening (but it is your experience, like abuse). It's in my lifetime that I had to keep quiet about my background for some jobs, or in some social groups and I wasn't really allowed to 'celebrate' Halloween or Guy Fawkes as a child. I still hear slurs now, and also about 'the Irish' within UK Government circles. Jokes about terrorism are not uncommon, or our supposed stupidity. I also get a bit annoyed when nice middle-class parents openly lie to get their kids into 'church' schools and then ask me what's going on having lied their way in. My friend's son was terrified about the crown of thorns and it was stopping him from sleeping. So much like that would terrify a small boy (and it used to me too as there were images up all around houses let alone the statues).
I was also part-in and part-out as my father was not of the same religion and then my parents divorced. I know a few who are lovely and happen to be of many other faiths, and quite a few 'lapsed' or less observant but very decent too. I do miss the better and definitely community aspects of faith and church which my grandparents and their communities relied on. I have been shown some amazing grace and kindness from some. But then from agnostics and atheists and those with no labels and beliefs too.
It sounds like being a Catholic child was not such an easy time of it. Speaking of images, I can remember twenty years back seeing life size alabaster crucifixes in church graveyards. It was quite surreal to me.
My childhood was Christian lite. A nan who made my parents get me christened in case I died and couldn't get into heaven, Hymns sung in school assembly, a mum who took us to a Methodist church because she wanted to make friends, and a grandma who believed in fairies. How does Catholicism stand on fairies I wonder.
Sorry, I meant life size alabaster crucifixes in Ireland.
Similar to my childhood in many respects as I was at a school where we sang hymns but it was very subtle and unforced and I sat with my Muslim friend who opted out of morning prayers and when I gave my reasoning I was allowed to sit and keep her company. My gran was apparently always sprinkling me with Holy water 'just in case' I wasn't being properly Catholic enough and shhh I was never baptised as a child and was also told I would go straight to hell by others who think that's a funny thing. My family were two sides of a sectarian divide. I have actually had these 'but what about fairies' and belief chats with nuns and priests and other fairly senior people who are much nicer, more welcoming and pragmatic. And also with hospital and other chaplains. I was in some ways protected by my mother due to her experiences, and so we weren't brought up 'in' the Church (still went to services and was confused by lots). My more Jesuitical and fairly unpleasant relative recently revealed how angry she still is at her for not letting us be 'in the fold' etc. Like we are lost sheep. My sister and I were viewed as outcasts. I feel very much for 'detransitioners' as being 'in' or 'ex' cultlike anything can be a hard route. I am not sure what I am now, I attended a church as an adult and then found it worse than Catholicism (it was Evangelical). And my great grandmother converted for love, so there we go.
A Catholic friend at Uni was shocked by my experiences and things had very much changed since - so you weren't/aren't ex-communicated for being divorced or with divorced parents and could receive blessings and be welcomed. I think I was still believing things that had actually changed - that shows how things can change despite your own little family or community holding on, especially true where you leave a country and hold the old ways dear. And a lot can change between generations.
Being in Ireland and seeing the shrines by the road taps into things we think going back Centuries - it's a mix of beliefs, spirituality and community. Very strangely I was discussing a large memorial to a relative of mine the other day - it was put up to remember someone who was much loved and that's what's supposed to be at the heart of all this.
Interesting. My Dad was baptised in his forties (I think something to do with an age crisis. Like he was panicking about turning forty. He jumped out of a plane at around the same time) he decided to stop going to church because of some dishonesty he’d noticed with the local priest and a visiting bishop. It was also to do with the eagerness of the congregation to believe or go along with the lies. I think that would be hard to tolerate, but I think it’s the human element that’s at fault rather than the religion itself. You say your experience felt cultish, have I got that right? That would be extremely off putting I think. About the fairies, I recently heard a podcast called Haunted Cosmos, made by a priest or deacon, can’t remember which, and his friend who’s of the same church. They went over the idea, and concluded that if God made everything then he made fairies too, possibly as caretakers of the environment. So there you go. I’ve heard a Scottish woman go through a story about fairies being fallen angels, which would probably be a way of weaving your original beliefs into the new beliefs.
It all is, isn't it? It helps when we can have a chance to listen, hear, and speak to each other and there's not enough of that, so we all end up at cross purposes. Someone in my family who was a very vocal atheist suddenly converted in his 60s I think, having criticised his wife, Catholicism and all that part of my family for decades, being fairly rude to my grandmother and other more observant in our family. So was then very zealous about that too of course. Religion is people; people are the religion. Someone wished me a happy Easter today (bit early, kind of wrong day but a nice, friendly intention) and I wished them Mubarak for when that happens and the end of his fast too as I probably won't see him again before then. I know some Arab and Middle Eastern Christians, who are now in the UK (and came to be safe/r). I quite like a theological, spiritual and humanist chat when I can :-)
Hard to explain, but yes, some elements cultish. It's also about class too and I find it very hard when some within churches (any 'community') are rude, cruel or unwelcoming (like all humans can be). Hard to explain, but it's about showing respect and some seem to want to offend and show disrespect to make some point. But then I've been welcomed in other countries and felt 'at home' with that welcome and some understanding of people's culture and faith (or none) helps with that. You reminded me of not just fairies or angels but also Sheela Na Gig - very interesting weaving of a lot of beliefs, myths and legends. Some things change, some things stay the same!