Another couple of thoughts on this for what it's worth. I watched Graham's fascinating interview with Skylar the other day and she said something that I've been thinking a lot about recently, and which Arty also mentioned in a recent episode of "The Mess We're In". And it's that many and indeed possibly most people have little or no idea that something as dystopian and hideous as this - a brutal mysognist who has killed a woman, is imprisoned in a men's jail but then transitions and manages to get themselves transferred to a women's prison - actually happened. This partly comes down to under-reporting (partly due to the woke agenda) I imagine, but the main thing in my view is that it stems from that disconnect we probably all feel between what we imagine couldn't possibly be allowed to happen in a liberal western democracy (in this case Sweden) and the sickening reality. In other words, if you don't read the whole piece you might just think "Nah, that can't possibly have happened, can it? Sweden would never do that." And then you move on with your life and try and forget about it.
So here's the other thing - a question. In this context I thought Graham's piece and his thoroughly appropriate linking of it to Alex Sobel MP's rejection of single-sex refuges and prisons should be read by a wider audience. So I used the sharing tools and tweeted it. I'm still pretty new to this group so I'm just checking this is OK. It won't have much impact as I'm not very active on Twitter (on the fairly rare occasions I do tweet it's mainly about football), I only have 79 followers and am not really looking for more. Anyhow, just checking it really was OK to share via the sharing tool (that upward arrow on the right).
I think you're right - I've shared it on twitter too. Expect death threats and a pile on. Stay polite, screenshot and report, then block if it's getting to you.
Just realised you're a bloke (unless I'm 'misgendering you!). You probably won't get the STFU TERF death threats with a gun pointed at you, it seems to be women they target. My OH not on twitter but he is on FB and has started posting this kind of stuff on there to spread awareness amongst people who have no clue this is going on at all. The more men that wade in to support this campaign, the better. If we could get Labour to maintain their current policy position of protecting women's spaces, that would be an achievement. I think Starmer's desperation to win back the 'red wall' seats will probably help, since I can't imagine many of my northern counterparts thinking this is a great idea.
Yeah, I'm a bloke. Thanks very much for your comments. And yes, since I've been engaging with this horrible cess pit of misogynist abuse I've realised that the STFU TERF stuff gets hurled at women with impunity, but not nearly so much at men. This of course says a lot in itself. You're also right of course that Labour's current policy position is to maintain women's spaces, so Alex Sobel's comments are - apart from anything else - in contravention of party policy.
(1) You are right, GenderWang. Best to ask Glinner to put you in contact with each other. And to remove the information above.
(2) Be careful with @NWYoungLab - Young Labour in the NW of England. Young Labour are either TRAs or ultra-woke. I tweeted: "Length of your T thread is in inverse proportion to common sense in it. Transwomen are biological men who suffer from mental disorder GD (S25 GRA). You are falling prey to "gender grievances" of ultra-sensitive trans activists. Look at the money pushing these destructive beliefs" and got suspended. Any mention of "gender" sets off the Twitter censors. I should have checked who @NWYoungLab were - my fault!
I think you're right about how few people know and how many can't believe it. (I know it is the case, and I can barely believe it myself).
One problem I suspect is also how we think about prisons and about the people in them. Out of sight out of mind, combined with the kind of punitive mentality that thinks "Well, anything that happens to them they deserved it." (Anything? Really?)
For decades there's been an awareness that many men's prisons (in the US at least, but also in the UK) are hell-holes of rape and violence.
Jokes about man on man rape in prison are pretty much accepted as ok. (I suspect that's almost the only situation in which those people who don't typically think of themselves as being rapeable are OK with imagining people physically like themselves - ie, male - getting raped, probably because they don't think they're the kind of men who'll ever be incarcerated, so tee-hee if it happens to other men or other classes & colours).
But I don't think anyone thinks about rape in women's prisons, and all these tropes about "prison rape: hilarious" and "well, they deserve whatever happens to them" fit alongside the cultural attitudes of "rape of women is basically legal now" and "criminals deserve the worst, and women crims deserve even worse than that", with "TWAW".
Good points. The whole concept of putting biological males into women's prisons is utterly horrific and nightmarish - tantamount to state-sanctioned violence in my view. It's an interesting theory that there are perhaps some assumptions underlying or enabling this practice, i.e. "Oh well, they're only criminals/prisoners/jail should be about punishment" etc.
Another couple of thoughts on this for what it's worth. I watched Graham's fascinating interview with Skylar the other day and she said something that I've been thinking a lot about recently, and which Arty also mentioned in a recent episode of "The Mess We're In". And it's that many and indeed possibly most people have little or no idea that something as dystopian and hideous as this - a brutal mysognist who has killed a woman, is imprisoned in a men's jail but then transitions and manages to get themselves transferred to a women's prison - actually happened. This partly comes down to under-reporting (partly due to the woke agenda) I imagine, but the main thing in my view is that it stems from that disconnect we probably all feel between what we imagine couldn't possibly be allowed to happen in a liberal western democracy (in this case Sweden) and the sickening reality. In other words, if you don't read the whole piece you might just think "Nah, that can't possibly have happened, can it? Sweden would never do that." And then you move on with your life and try and forget about it.
So here's the other thing - a question. In this context I thought Graham's piece and his thoroughly appropriate linking of it to Alex Sobel MP's rejection of single-sex refuges and prisons should be read by a wider audience. So I used the sharing tools and tweeted it. I'm still pretty new to this group so I'm just checking this is OK. It won't have much impact as I'm not very active on Twitter (on the fairly rare occasions I do tweet it's mainly about football), I only have 79 followers and am not really looking for more. Anyhow, just checking it really was OK to share via the sharing tool (that upward arrow on the right).
I think you're right - I've shared it on twitter too. Expect death threats and a pile on. Stay polite, screenshot and report, then block if it's getting to you.
Just realised you're a bloke (unless I'm 'misgendering you!). You probably won't get the STFU TERF death threats with a gun pointed at you, it seems to be women they target. My OH not on twitter but he is on FB and has started posting this kind of stuff on there to spread awareness amongst people who have no clue this is going on at all. The more men that wade in to support this campaign, the better. If we could get Labour to maintain their current policy position of protecting women's spaces, that would be an achievement. I think Starmer's desperation to win back the 'red wall' seats will probably help, since I can't imagine many of my northern counterparts thinking this is a great idea.
Yeah, I'm a bloke. Thanks very much for your comments. And yes, since I've been engaging with this horrible cess pit of misogynist abuse I've realised that the STFU TERF stuff gets hurled at women with impunity, but not nearly so much at men. This of course says a lot in itself. You're also right of course that Labour's current policy position is to maintain women's spaces, so Alex Sobel's comments are - apart from anything else - in contravention of party policy.
Are you on Twitter as AndrewH? I'll follow.
This comment stream isn't private, I thought it was.
Best delete comments with personal information.
Are you on Twitter as Ellen Highwater? I'm there as Carson Goldeneye.
found you and followed
You are doxxing yourselves! This is a public forum on the open internet!
(1) You are right, GenderWang. Best to ask Glinner to put you in contact with each other. And to remove the information above.
(2) Be careful with @NWYoungLab - Young Labour in the NW of England. Young Labour are either TRAs or ultra-woke. I tweeted: "Length of your T thread is in inverse proportion to common sense in it. Transwomen are biological men who suffer from mental disorder GD (S25 GRA). You are falling prey to "gender grievances" of ultra-sensitive trans activists. Look at the money pushing these destructive beliefs" and got suspended. Any mention of "gender" sets off the Twitter censors. I should have checked who @NWYoungLab were - my fault!
Thanks, Ellen!
I think you're right about how few people know and how many can't believe it. (I know it is the case, and I can barely believe it myself).
One problem I suspect is also how we think about prisons and about the people in them. Out of sight out of mind, combined with the kind of punitive mentality that thinks "Well, anything that happens to them they deserved it." (Anything? Really?)
For decades there's been an awareness that many men's prisons (in the US at least, but also in the UK) are hell-holes of rape and violence.
Jokes about man on man rape in prison are pretty much accepted as ok. (I suspect that's almost the only situation in which those people who don't typically think of themselves as being rapeable are OK with imagining people physically like themselves - ie, male - getting raped, probably because they don't think they're the kind of men who'll ever be incarcerated, so tee-hee if it happens to other men or other classes & colours).
But I don't think anyone thinks about rape in women's prisons, and all these tropes about "prison rape: hilarious" and "well, they deserve whatever happens to them" fit alongside the cultural attitudes of "rape of women is basically legal now" and "criminals deserve the worst, and women crims deserve even worse than that", with "TWAW".
Good points. The whole concept of putting biological males into women's prisons is utterly horrific and nightmarish - tantamount to state-sanctioned violence in my view. It's an interesting theory that there are perhaps some assumptions underlying or enabling this practice, i.e. "Oh well, they're only criminals/prisoners/jail should be about punishment" etc.
Fantastic piece, this one, really hits the nail on the head
All these TERF dogs! Who knew?