As said elsewhere - I’m beginning to think that the police now believe that wearing a balaclava and dressing like a pathetic, pasty-faced bedroom ninja - a Black Pamper - and having a smelly, untidy bedroom is a Protected Characteristic.
Nope. But what’s bothering me is the use of the description “hate crime”. I know Scotland has an official hate crime bill because they’ve gone insane, but I don’t think England does.
It doesn't have to, they have de facto created enough 'guidance' and 'policy' on hate crime. Which they seem to think are statutory to boot. They expand and 'widen' definitions as they see fit and hop on other law. Then they get told not to. Then they carry on. It's a pretty pass we're at.
Make up or widen a definition, tie it to a protected characteristic that none of them seem to be able to define and frequently list incorrectly, then make an accusation. Bingo. They are confusing words like sex and gender, then sexuality and identity.
Don't like the word crime? Ok, they'll call it 'incident' instead to get round that. You really don't like the word crime? Ok we'll call it a 'non-crime'. Hate? Oh well, if someone 'feels' it's hate, it's therefore hate and no one is allowed to dispute that. Word by word they are tipping all our reality, standards, laws, ways to communicate and understand shared experience upside down. Create a new set of victims, you create a new set of crimes. Most marginalised, by their default are actively being marginalised by some evil group of marginalisers, so the police are tracking these criminals down one by one.
their orders are coming from on top. Where the trans catechism is concerned they know exactly what they are doing and why. Stonewall instructors have trained them up to behave exactly like this.
Yeah, I can believe that. It does amaze me that individual officers are so willing to embarrass themselves! They seem so happy and proud of themselves in photos. Cringe!
Kelly is well versed with their methods. I don't think she will waste any of her time on it. If they try to pass it on to Wiltshire police, who have already had dealings with Kelly, I doubt that they will want to get involved again, unless there is real hard evidence of a crime.
They said on basis of sexual orientation, I am assuming she may have said men can't be lesbians, lesbians don't have penises or something along those lines. Surely that alleged crime would clash with other EA protected caracteristics, sex, belief (woriads), and indeed sexual orientation itself as it is based on same sex attraction. The case will be an absolute farce if it comes to anything, though I think they like to get people in for interview to try and get them to incrminate themselves, she's right not to go
the call also works as intimidation. Most would guard what they say after such a call. KJK is the exception. She won't be cowed by these hateful fools in power. Keep saying it. TWAM TMAW
Cutting off girls breasts is mutilation.
Queering the curriculum is brainwashing
Transing kids is extreme child abuse
no woman will ever have a penis
no man will eever be a lesbian or mother
no man can breast feed
This is a men's Rights Movement and the end game doesn't bear thinking about. I'm doing a recce of underground tunnels for when we all have to go into hiding.
Oh absolutely these tactics are to try and silence people and others who see what might happen to them too, in KJKs case they shoud already know it won't work
They were told to stop recording non-crime hate incidents I think. But they said this was a 'hate crime' and KJK pushed them to clarify it. The officer said that the complaint had come in about a month ago so pre-dates the new instructions. Not sure if that makes a difference though.
'Hate crimes' and NCHIs are two different things. NCHIs operate outwith the law, which is where the problem is coming from, whereas 'hate crime' is in legislation (although I think they are problematic in and of themselves).
Yes, quite. And it looks to be that the College of Policing have extended the reach of hate crime legislation into NCHI all by their (unauthorised?) selves. For homo/bi/transphobia only.
I don't think they actually care about homophobia or biphobia; that's pretty much the T's stock in trade, after all-- pressuring gay people to volunteer for rape by the straight genderists who perv on them, and doing their level best to destroy the very concept of same-sex attraction altogether. None of which constitutes a hate crime anymore, apparently. In fact LGB people are supposed to celebrate it!
There were lesbians and gay men at the Standing for Women event as well as police officers, how come Kellie wasn’t arrested at the time? Why didn’t the man in a dress report it straight away and why did the police sit on it for a month before contacting Kellie? This is TRAs acting out of desperation and why the hell the police take any notice of them is beyond me. Except the police forces have been Stonewalled.
Well it is all recorded. But whatever it is it will be BS. I think this is an intimidatory move by the police to try and silence her, because they won’t have anything to prosecute her for, so they will try and intimidate and give her a warning. It won’t work, and it will make the police look foolish, which they are.
But which police. I am curious about which officers, how senior and where they are directing or allowing all of this. We know what's been happening in Sussex and who's been 'advising' them.
It must be hard to retain any professionalism if this is sweeping through your team or area. I rewatched some events a few times. There was one very tall police officer at the Standing for Women Brighton event who kept popping up in footage, very clearly directing and ordering his colleagues, even to the point of physically turning and pushing and ordering some smaller and frankly lost looking officers to no, there, move over there etc. It was fascinating. He had eyes in the back of his head managing those crowds and his own colleagues as some looked like they really didn't know what they were doing and were intimidated or unprepared. He was clearly intervening to stop public disorder from the trans activists and protect others who clearly were the SFW attendees. I would be very interested to know what his thoughts are on all this as he did a good job from what I could see. After you've had to fight off the twentieth mewling, spitting, scratching, yelling, swearing, knife carrying trans 'activist' you surely must be able to determine who's the aggressor, the victim or innocent bystander? And deep in your gut, no matter how much 'diversity' training and propaganda you've been made to sit through.
I hope Alison Bailey and Maya Forstatter will accompany her to any appearances! The expressions we make advocating for our rights as females do not foment the shootings in the States. We are not affiliated with far right violent extremists. But consider the timing of news of the Colorado Springs tragedy and the false police report of KJK for "hate speech." My country, the United States, is ill with firearms obsessions, and deranged shooters who should have been red flagged are usually the perpetrators. We'll be smeared with the blame though--they will claim we got into that sick man's head. It will be a challenge to address, because we've been smeared with false claims of words equals violence for years now. I experienced the early phase, in my divorce from a trans identified man 25 years ago. In my blog, at my youtube channel and in the introduction of my memoir, I wrote very carefully worded paragraphs clarifying that, while my ex-husband did reprehensible things, causing mother erasure, I do NOT promote or condone violence towards any person for what they wear or how they say they want to be addressed. This is about misdiagnoses of psychiatric illness.
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods, True Tales from a Grass Widow (iuniverse, 2022)
I will also contribute towards covering her legal fees, whether it is to defend herself against potential charges or to sue the police for harassment. Please keep us posted.
It's about time all this ephemeral hate crime legislation was abolished. We need a proper government which will do this. The present woke idiot MPs are useless.
It's just bullying. This won't go anywhere because there will be no evidence of a crime. Intimidation tactics. She did (rightly) criticise the Welsh police at the Cardiff rally. Maybe this is police 'solidarity'.
There was a case in England about 15 years ago I think of a policeman who entered details of an ex-girl friend’s car reg into the police computer and flagged it as suspicious. This resulted in her being stopped regularly by police patrols to check out the car. No doubt they swap around details of Posie and other people they consider potential ‘troublesome ’
That's very common. If you want nightmares read any of the inspection reports or reviews. There seems a particular issue with domestic violence and some very pesky girlfriends and wives that nag these poor souls and have to be dealt with, so their colleagues are only too happy to look the other way. Or even vulnerable witnesses that some officers see as fair game. The 'odd bad apple' argument won't work. There are convicted criminals and those with very dodgy histories that also merrily get through 'vetting'. Then commit more and move area and like magic pass 'vetting' again. So even when reports and records are known, things are overlooked.
This smiley polite sing-song happy sounding officer represents some vile corruption. They are harassing KJK with this and it's institutional harassment. I realise cuts in funding have an impact but it doesn't explain this festering 'culture'.
What disturbs me is the reach some of these unhinged trans activists have to put in a complaint, then have multiple area police forces vie for who gets to interview or arrest based on nothing. This is the pattern unfolding for years. The process is the punishment as is said often and they are a law unto themselves. They've been told not to, Secretaries of State have told them to stop, legal rulings tell them the law, yet still they carry on.
Which has been identified as a reason why internal complaints go nowhere as officers are too afraid that when they ask for back up no one will come to their aid. Report after report on how to address some nasty cultures highlights this.
“In order to identify cases involving homophobic, biphobic or transphobic hostility, we have agreed with the police a shared definition. This definition is wider than the legal definition of a hate crime within the SA 2020 to ensure we capture all relevant cases:
““Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a person because of their sexual orientation or transgender identity or perceived sexual orientation or transgender identity by the victim or any other person.”
“It is important that relevant incidents are identified as hate crimes as early as possible. This will assist the police to obtain the best available evidence in order to support the aggravating factor at court and at sentence.
“Once a case has been flagged as a hate crime and received by the CPS, it is CPS policy not to remove the flag for any reason other than administrative error. This signals the CPS commitment to treat all such crimes seriously and to accept the victim’s perspective, even where we are unable to identify sufficient evidence to prosecute the case as a hate crime.”
Usually the police and CPS wouldn’t get involved unless they thought a crime had been committed, but under this guidance the word “crime” is equated with “incident” (which the dictionary defines as an event or occurrence).
So under this guidance the police are now being encourage to investigate incidents, not just crimes. There is a caveat, but one that merely requires the so called victim (you can’t be a victim unless a crime has been committed) or any other person to perceive hostility.
Once it’s flagged as hate crime (even though it doesn’t have to be a crime and is only perceived by a lay person to be motivated by hostility), God forbid if the police and CPS (who won’t remove the flag in any circumstances other than it was made by administrative mistake) don’t waste as much money as they possibly can trying to obtain a positive outcome (as they see it) so that they don’t look soft on this type of crime or fall down Stonewall’s rankings.
It’s this guidance that probably explains why they want to question Posie (note that the guidance also says, “There is currently no offence of stirring up hatred on the grounds of transgender identity”).
Meanwhile the conviction rate for rape remains appalling low because there aren’t enough resources to provide the specialised support and evidence gathering that’s required to preserve evidence whilst it’s fresh, and so many other crimes are also being poorly investigated.
And as I recall, the definition of 'hostility' is very broad. In fact, it's so broad it isn't actually defined at all. Merely a list of being unfriendly, giving the side-eye whatever.
Yes, it is terrifying in that strangely 'oh it's only admin' way. In the public interest? Thresholds? 'Wider than the legal definition' in the have-we-any-legs-to-stand-on-no-no-we-haven't way, like some men choose to 'broaden the definition of womanhood' and even 'being female'. All just perception now folks. It means what we want it to mean. Everything someone opines to be transphobic is therefore transphobic like their other circular definitions. Maybe that helpful CPS trans identified man has been oh so helpfully 'helping' them with their new 'guidance'.
That strange thinking is behind someone googling words and the meaning of crime and incident which is mind-boggling. Something something um erm happened maybe. Did they look it all up on Tumblr or get one of their 'trans' experts to draft it?
I am starting to feel more sorry for police officers who are to wade through College of Policing and CPS 'guidance' and guess what their course of action could be then match it up to laws not Stonewall law.
that explains a lot. They should also state that "it is also important that incidents which are not crimes should be identified as soon as possible so that police can stop wasting their time and innocent people can go about their business without interruption. Repeated reports from people alleging to be victims should also be identified as early as possible and recorded as vexatious so that the police might prosecute them for wasting their time." Add that and I am okay with it.
Does anyone else think the timing is a little ‘off’ too ?
They waited a month, is what I heard the officer say? Yesterday was the remembrance nonsense, after yet another bloody week of it, and this could ramp up the tension, and add to the most ‘marginalised and victimised members of society’, being the ‘victimised’ all over again.
Yes, it's entirely concocted. It's 'remember to self-identify as victimised week' every week for a very small proportion of our population who see TERFs under the beds. This is the constant media narrative and daily statements from politicians on 'the most vulnerable and marginalised'. They are 'most at risk' and we must 'raise awareness'. It bears no relation to reality. That the Senedd talked about remembering those 'fallen' made my blood truly boil.
The police are continually being reprimanded for ignoring reports until victims of harassment and their relatives are murdered. Then they say they will do things better and learn lessons. So they are drumming up business with those who self-identify as victims and aren't. I can only guess they somehow think they are showing they are 'proactive' in countering and preventing 'crime'. Crimes that aren't crimes and don't exist rather than the actual and repeated crimes they are conveniently overlooking.
And they sit around in their workshops wondering why people give up reporting anything to them and they lose the trust and consent of the communities they 'police'. The decent officers and halfway sane amongst the ranks must speak up, act and stop this. And we must have zero tolerance for these madey uppey faux crime squads.
The recent tragic case of the shooting at the LGBT club in Colorado has likely emboldened them regarding following up on accusations of hate crime - verbal ones that is
I doubt it because that is so rare in Britain. The shooting in Oslo earlier this year wasn't preceded by any verbal hate crime it was an isolated incident by a mentally ill person. What's behind all this is the embarrassment of the police over their totally incompetent response to the racist murder of teenager Stephen Lawrence at a Brixton bus stop back in the nineties. However where racist hate speech is very likely to be linked with actual violent racist hate crimes, violent attacks against LGBT persons in the wake of women speaking against the erosion of women's rights is completely unknown. Generally, it's the same type of thug who attacks people for being of a different colour who also attacks people for having different sexual orientations or gender configurations. This type of thug does not listen to nor is inspired by people like Kelly Jay.
And she's got a rookie! Who has "had a quick look (about Posie) online"!
Oh my.....I almost feel sorry for the officer....well I do, a bit. I'd certainly feel more gleeful if the officer were male. Like the "Untoward About Paedophiles" accuser!
As said elsewhere - I’m beginning to think that the police now believe that wearing a balaclava and dressing like a pathetic, pasty-faced bedroom ninja - a Black Pamper - and having a smelly, untidy bedroom is a Protected Characteristic.
Why does it say "Author" in red here? Does that just mean that mole at the counter is an author on Substack too?
I am an occasional contributor.
I'd guess so.
I hadn't heard of that - But a quick look, and yes, you are right.
It’s on Twitter, I’ve posted it on GETTR.
When is this farce going to end, and when will the government make these police chiefs act like police.
I’ll gladly contribute to her lawsuit after they arrest her.
I’m guessing they’ve got nothing.
Me too x
A hate crime involving sexual orientation? They are so bloody incompetent!
My guess is the police are fishing. They have no evidence.
since when did having no evidence stop them.
Sounded like it. But who knows? Is that an actual crime that the police person told KJK about? It didn't sound like it.
Nope. But what’s bothering me is the use of the description “hate crime”. I know Scotland has an official hate crime bill because they’ve gone insane, but I don’t think England does.
It doesn't have to, they have de facto created enough 'guidance' and 'policy' on hate crime. Which they seem to think are statutory to boot. They expand and 'widen' definitions as they see fit and hop on other law. Then they get told not to. Then they carry on. It's a pretty pass we're at.
Make up or widen a definition, tie it to a protected characteristic that none of them seem to be able to define and frequently list incorrectly, then make an accusation. Bingo. They are confusing words like sex and gender, then sexuality and identity.
Don't like the word crime? Ok, they'll call it 'incident' instead to get round that. You really don't like the word crime? Ok we'll call it a 'non-crime'. Hate? Oh well, if someone 'feels' it's hate, it's therefore hate and no one is allowed to dispute that. Word by word they are tipping all our reality, standards, laws, ways to communicate and understand shared experience upside down. Create a new set of victims, you create a new set of crimes. Most marginalised, by their default are actively being marginalised by some evil group of marginalisers, so the police are tracking these criminals down one by one.
We are all going to hell in a hand basket. Communism keeps popping into my mind. Or at least some of its tactics.
If that's true then they won't arrest her. She's contacting a lawyer in any case.
I wish I could share notes with Kellie. The way the police are speaking an behaving is very similar to my experience with Norfolk police.
I’m sure you could get someone to put you in touch with her… hopefully you’re ok after whatever you got put through?
It's ongoing.
Can you tell us about it?
She sounded so incompetent that she was almost apologetic! Our police force are a shambolic embarrassment.
They're a bit busy dancing at Pride and taking selfies with celebs and drag queens... it's a tough job!
their orders are coming from on top. Where the trans catechism is concerned they know exactly what they are doing and why. Stonewall instructors have trained them up to behave exactly like this.
Yeah, I can believe that. It does amaze me that individual officers are so willing to embarrass themselves! They seem so happy and proud of themselves in photos. Cringe!
Kelly is well versed with their methods. I don't think she will waste any of her time on it. If they try to pass it on to Wiltshire police, who have already had dealings with Kelly, I doubt that they will want to get involved again, unless there is real hard evidence of a crime.
They said on basis of sexual orientation, I am assuming she may have said men can't be lesbians, lesbians don't have penises or something along those lines. Surely that alleged crime would clash with other EA protected caracteristics, sex, belief (woriads), and indeed sexual orientation itself as it is based on same sex attraction. The case will be an absolute farce if it comes to anything, though I think they like to get people in for interview to try and get them to incrminate themselves, she's right not to go
the call also works as intimidation. Most would guard what they say after such a call. KJK is the exception. She won't be cowed by these hateful fools in power. Keep saying it. TWAM TMAW
Cutting off girls breasts is mutilation.
Queering the curriculum is brainwashing
Transing kids is extreme child abuse
no woman will ever have a penis
no man will eever be a lesbian or mother
no man can breast feed
This is a men's Rights Movement and the end game doesn't bear thinking about. I'm doing a recce of underground tunnels for when we all have to go into hiding.
Oh absolutely these tactics are to try and silence people and others who see what might happen to them too, in KJKs case they shoud already know it won't work
It doesn't sound like a crime, though. They were told to quit doing this.
They were told to stop recording non-crime hate incidents I think. But they said this was a 'hate crime' and KJK pushed them to clarify it. The officer said that the complaint had come in about a month ago so pre-dates the new instructions. Not sure if that makes a difference though.
'Hate crimes' and NCHIs are two different things. NCHIs operate outwith the law, which is where the problem is coming from, whereas 'hate crime' is in legislation (although I think they are problematic in and of themselves).
Yes, quite. And it looks to be that the College of Policing have extended the reach of hate crime legislation into NCHI all by their (unauthorised?) selves. For homo/bi/transphobia only.
I don't think they actually care about homophobia or biphobia; that's pretty much the T's stock in trade, after all-- pressuring gay people to volunteer for rape by the straight genderists who perv on them, and doing their level best to destroy the very concept of same-sex attraction altogether. None of which constitutes a hate crime anymore, apparently. In fact LGB people are supposed to celebrate it!
It was regarding Brighton.
The government did, but the actual authority, namely Stonewall Legal Services said they could carry on.
There were lesbians and gay men at the Standing for Women event as well as police officers, how come Kellie wasn’t arrested at the time? Why didn’t the man in a dress report it straight away and why did the police sit on it for a month before contacting Kellie? This is TRAs acting out of desperation and why the hell the police take any notice of them is beyond me. Except the police forces have been Stonewalled.
They couldn’t bear it that her US tour was a success so this is their next desperate bid to smear and cancel our voices.
Something tells me that what she said has been taken completely out of context in some measly attempt to defame Posie.
Well it is all recorded. But whatever it is it will be BS. I think this is an intimidatory move by the police to try and silence her, because they won’t have anything to prosecute her for, so they will try and intimidate and give her a warning. It won’t work, and it will make the police look foolish, which they are.
But which police. I am curious about which officers, how senior and where they are directing or allowing all of this. We know what's been happening in Sussex and who's been 'advising' them.
It must be hard to retain any professionalism if this is sweeping through your team or area. I rewatched some events a few times. There was one very tall police officer at the Standing for Women Brighton event who kept popping up in footage, very clearly directing and ordering his colleagues, even to the point of physically turning and pushing and ordering some smaller and frankly lost looking officers to no, there, move over there etc. It was fascinating. He had eyes in the back of his head managing those crowds and his own colleagues as some looked like they really didn't know what they were doing and were intimidated or unprepared. He was clearly intervening to stop public disorder from the trans activists and protect others who clearly were the SFW attendees. I would be very interested to know what his thoughts are on all this as he did a good job from what I could see. After you've had to fight off the twentieth mewling, spitting, scratching, yelling, swearing, knife carrying trans 'activist' you surely must be able to determine who's the aggressor, the victim or innocent bystander? And deep in your gut, no matter how much 'diversity' training and propaganda you've been made to sit through.
I hope Alison Bailey and Maya Forstatter will accompany her to any appearances! The expressions we make advocating for our rights as females do not foment the shootings in the States. We are not affiliated with far right violent extremists. But consider the timing of news of the Colorado Springs tragedy and the false police report of KJK for "hate speech." My country, the United States, is ill with firearms obsessions, and deranged shooters who should have been red flagged are usually the perpetrators. We'll be smeared with the blame though--they will claim we got into that sick man's head. It will be a challenge to address, because we've been smeared with false claims of words equals violence for years now. I experienced the early phase, in my divorce from a trans identified man 25 years ago. In my blog, at my youtube channel and in the introduction of my memoir, I wrote very carefully worded paragraphs clarifying that, while my ex-husband did reprehensible things, causing mother erasure, I do NOT promote or condone violence towards any person for what they wear or how they say they want to be addressed. This is about misdiagnoses of psychiatric illness.
Ute Heggen, author, In the Curated Woods, True Tales from a Grass Widow (iuniverse, 2022)
These police need to concentrate on the day job. Big time.
KJK fights for LGB people. For same SEX attracted folk.
We all know which faux sexual orientation the Police are talking about. You know the made up ‘most oppressed’ one - beginning with a T.
Stonewall Law, it’s all they see.
What the actual fucking horror show!
I will also contribute towards covering her legal fees, whether it is to defend herself against potential charges or to sue the police for harassment. Please keep us posted.
It's about time all this ephemeral hate crime legislation was abolished. We need a proper government which will do this. The present woke idiot MPs are useless.
It took the person a month to dream up an empty accusation. Pathetic.
And yes, Stephen Fry... what a traitor...
It's just bullying. This won't go anywhere because there will be no evidence of a crime. Intimidation tactics. She did (rightly) criticise the Welsh police at the Cardiff rally. Maybe this is police 'solidarity'.
Yeah, police "allyship". If you say bad things about us, we'll get our mates on you... 🙄
Yes! If you don't get to our "voluntary" interview in Brighton, we'll get our mates in Wilshire to arrest you.
Erm, it's not voluntary then, is it? It's just that there is no jurisdiction to justify a forced interview.
Someone has mates in all the right places, don't they?
There was a case in England about 15 years ago I think of a policeman who entered details of an ex-girl friend’s car reg into the police computer and flagged it as suspicious. This resulted in her being stopped regularly by police patrols to check out the car. No doubt they swap around details of Posie and other people they consider potential ‘troublesome ’
That's very common. If you want nightmares read any of the inspection reports or reviews. There seems a particular issue with domestic violence and some very pesky girlfriends and wives that nag these poor souls and have to be dealt with, so their colleagues are only too happy to look the other way. Or even vulnerable witnesses that some officers see as fair game. The 'odd bad apple' argument won't work. There are convicted criminals and those with very dodgy histories that also merrily get through 'vetting'. Then commit more and move area and like magic pass 'vetting' again. So even when reports and records are known, things are overlooked.
This smiley polite sing-song happy sounding officer represents some vile corruption. They are harassing KJK with this and it's institutional harassment. I realise cuts in funding have an impact but it doesn't explain this festering 'culture'.
What disturbs me is the reach some of these unhinged trans activists have to put in a complaint, then have multiple area police forces vie for who gets to interview or arrest based on nothing. This is the pattern unfolding for years. The process is the punishment as is said often and they are a law unto themselves. They've been told not to, Secretaries of State have told them to stop, legal rulings tell them the law, yet still they carry on.
Why can't she do the interview (no arrest) in Wiltshire, with officers who have been filled in?
Or the Brighton police can come to her!
Yeah, Brighton to Wiltshire? That's a fair few doughnuts🍩🍩🍩🤣
Which has been identified as a reason why internal complaints go nowhere as officers are too afraid that when they ask for back up no one will come to their aid. Report after report on how to address some nasty cultures highlights this.
Has a hate crime been committed? Probably not.
However, have a look at the CPS’s “Public statement on prosecuting homophobic, biphobic and transphobic hate crime” dated March 22nd 2022 at https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/public-statement-prosecuting-homophobic-biphobic-and-transphobic-hate-crime
It includes this:
“In order to identify cases involving homophobic, biphobic or transphobic hostility, we have agreed with the police a shared definition. This definition is wider than the legal definition of a hate crime within the SA 2020 to ensure we capture all relevant cases:
““Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a person because of their sexual orientation or transgender identity or perceived sexual orientation or transgender identity by the victim or any other person.”
“It is important that relevant incidents are identified as hate crimes as early as possible. This will assist the police to obtain the best available evidence in order to support the aggravating factor at court and at sentence.
“Once a case has been flagged as a hate crime and received by the CPS, it is CPS policy not to remove the flag for any reason other than administrative error. This signals the CPS commitment to treat all such crimes seriously and to accept the victim’s perspective, even where we are unable to identify sufficient evidence to prosecute the case as a hate crime.”
Usually the police and CPS wouldn’t get involved unless they thought a crime had been committed, but under this guidance the word “crime” is equated with “incident” (which the dictionary defines as an event or occurrence).
So under this guidance the police are now being encourage to investigate incidents, not just crimes. There is a caveat, but one that merely requires the so called victim (you can’t be a victim unless a crime has been committed) or any other person to perceive hostility.
Once it’s flagged as hate crime (even though it doesn’t have to be a crime and is only perceived by a lay person to be motivated by hostility), God forbid if the police and CPS (who won’t remove the flag in any circumstances other than it was made by administrative mistake) don’t waste as much money as they possibly can trying to obtain a positive outcome (as they see it) so that they don’t look soft on this type of crime or fall down Stonewall’s rankings.
It’s this guidance that probably explains why they want to question Posie (note that the guidance also says, “There is currently no offence of stirring up hatred on the grounds of transgender identity”).
Meanwhile the conviction rate for rape remains appalling low because there aren’t enough resources to provide the specialised support and evidence gathering that’s required to preserve evidence whilst it’s fresh, and so many other crimes are also being poorly investigated.
This guidance needs to change.
Any incident (vague) perceived by someone of a perceived sexual orientation perceived by, well, anyone is a hate crime. Jesus.
And as I recall, the definition of 'hostility' is very broad. In fact, it's so broad it isn't actually defined at all. Merely a list of being unfriendly, giving the side-eye whatever.
These people are truly a sacred caste.
Looks like the CPS is deciding what the law should be rather than what it is. This is terrifying.
Yes, it is terrifying in that strangely 'oh it's only admin' way. In the public interest? Thresholds? 'Wider than the legal definition' in the have-we-any-legs-to-stand-on-no-no-we-haven't way, like some men choose to 'broaden the definition of womanhood' and even 'being female'. All just perception now folks. It means what we want it to mean. Everything someone opines to be transphobic is therefore transphobic like their other circular definitions. Maybe that helpful CPS trans identified man has been oh so helpfully 'helping' them with their new 'guidance'.
That strange thinking is behind someone googling words and the meaning of crime and incident which is mind-boggling. Something something um erm happened maybe. Did they look it all up on Tumblr or get one of their 'trans' experts to draft it?
I am starting to feel more sorry for police officers who are to wade through College of Policing and CPS 'guidance' and guess what their course of action could be then match it up to laws not Stonewall law.
that explains a lot. They should also state that "it is also important that incidents which are not crimes should be identified as soon as possible so that police can stop wasting their time and innocent people can go about their business without interruption. Repeated reports from people alleging to be victims should also be identified as early as possible and recorded as vexatious so that the police might prosecute them for wasting their time." Add that and I am okay with it.
Does anyone else think the timing is a little ‘off’ too ?
They waited a month, is what I heard the officer say? Yesterday was the remembrance nonsense, after yet another bloody week of it, and this could ramp up the tension, and add to the most ‘marginalised and victimised members of society’, being the ‘victimised’ all over again.
yes. for sure.
Yes, it's entirely concocted. It's 'remember to self-identify as victimised week' every week for a very small proportion of our population who see TERFs under the beds. This is the constant media narrative and daily statements from politicians on 'the most vulnerable and marginalised'. They are 'most at risk' and we must 'raise awareness'. It bears no relation to reality. That the Senedd talked about remembering those 'fallen' made my blood truly boil.
The police are continually being reprimanded for ignoring reports until victims of harassment and their relatives are murdered. Then they say they will do things better and learn lessons. So they are drumming up business with those who self-identify as victims and aren't. I can only guess they somehow think they are showing they are 'proactive' in countering and preventing 'crime'. Crimes that aren't crimes and don't exist rather than the actual and repeated crimes they are conveniently overlooking.
And they sit around in their workshops wondering why people give up reporting anything to them and they lose the trust and consent of the communities they 'police'. The decent officers and halfway sane amongst the ranks must speak up, act and stop this. And we must have zero tolerance for these madey uppey faux crime squads.
The recent tragic case of the shooting at the LGBT club in Colorado has likely emboldened them regarding following up on accusations of hate crime - verbal ones that is
My thoughts exactly.
I doubt it because that is so rare in Britain. The shooting in Oslo earlier this year wasn't preceded by any verbal hate crime it was an isolated incident by a mentally ill person. What's behind all this is the embarrassment of the police over their totally incompetent response to the racist murder of teenager Stephen Lawrence at a Brixton bus stop back in the nineties. However where racist hate speech is very likely to be linked with actual violent racist hate crimes, violent attacks against LGBT persons in the wake of women speaking against the erosion of women's rights is completely unknown. Generally, it's the same type of thug who attacks people for being of a different colour who also attacks people for having different sexual orientations or gender configurations. This type of thug does not listen to nor is inspired by people like Kelly Jay.
This should be fun! :-D
And she's got a rookie! Who has "had a quick look (about Posie) online"!
Oh my.....I almost feel sorry for the officer....well I do, a bit. I'd certainly feel more gleeful if the officer were male. Like the "Untoward About Paedophiles" accuser!