Nothing changes. Love the crickets 😂 so true. Women are meant to just suck all the insults and take blame, carry responsibility and do it all “cheaply” and psychically because rampant misogyny and male pattern violence can’t be challenged or even spoken of except in hushed whispers. Not even in book clubs or study groups or Women’s studies at universities in case some MRA in a dress with his woman brain gets offended. Ludicrous.
Some happy news, an actually supportive article discussing JK Rowling published under the generally gynophobic beeb umbrella. Shame the author didn't quite dare say "And of course she's right because reality doesn't care about your feelpinions", but still. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55350905
Do you know, reading that article you linked to has actually given me a wee bit of a lift in these times of despondency.
The fact that it was on a BBC site really does give me some hope and I admire the author for actually managing to get something - anything - supportive of JK Rowling published on that site.
(As an aside - I had never, ever bothered with the Harry Potter books, they never appealed to me. However, when the sh*tstorm descended on JK Rowling I bought the first book in her Robert Galbraith "Cormoran Strike" series, and by gad sir! She really is a writer and a half! I now have the full set and can recommend them to anyone.)
If *ANYONE* in the public eye decides to weigh in on this subject and joins the vicious diatribe against JK Rowling - as *MANY* "celebrities" have done - a site should be created and the whole damned lot of them should be named and shamed.
They should have their names appended beneath a full list of every single one of those horrid, violent, misogynist messages posted against JK Rowling.
And can any single person, on either side of the argument, deny that messages constantly boasting of "cocks" and what the perpetrators plan to do with their "cocks" is *NOT* total misogyny?
And furthermore, can *ANY* single alleged supporter of those Trans Activists posting their vile messages, can they please explain to me *WHY* such trans-monsters are transfixed with the power of their *COCKS*?
Yep. Screenshot. I've been doing this because they will delete all their tweets when the tide turns. And I want to supply this stuff to journalists when they finally grow a pair.
It is absolutely extraordinary why some young men have so much time and violence to waste on a fabulously successful author whom they do not know. Just detached from any idea of reality!? Duh!
Your apology, Graham: thank you, just thank you and we give you so many hugs and warm wishes of appreciation for everything which you are doing for us women.
I am currently raising the stakes for transwidows, by consulting with Meghan Murphy in Canada and Stassja Frei in Australia ("Movement for Biological Reality"). I need to point out that Transwidows have been gas-lit in the UK by the NHS, the judicial service (divorce), the police. In 2007 I was convicted of common assault when my now ex-H attacked me (I had forced him to reveal a psychiatrist report), and then he laid charges - wearing a dress and a demure demeanour - to Sussex Police saying that I had attacked HIM! I had just spent 14 years like a frog being "brought to the boil" and I was "ccoked". I was so, so confused and devastated. I knew nothing about GD, narcissism, etc. I was so gas-lit (and my children were waiting for me in London) that I accepted a caution in order to escape. No, just no. NOT any more. I am working out a position for a crowdfunded action against the NHS for total lack of information and support to me and my children as the NHS abused and castrated my then husband leaving him a mutilated permanent patient with a host of iatrogenic illnesses.... Yes, it will take some time. But I am looking for other transwidows who want compensation for their ruined lives, and want to overturn trumped-up criminal convictions.
So I am full of gratitude to you. And always will be. Thank you!
My contribution: I keep complaining about the BBC's disturbing output. The particular case is CBBC's "My Life: When "Mum" became "Dad"" The BBC, a public service, are obliged to respond, although they make it as hard as possible to do so. I don't mind going on and on and on, because I believe as sure as "Transwidows are Tranwidows", that we have to keep going on. I wrote (2nd or 3rd round!):
"In your reply to me dated 12th December you did not address the points which I made.
In my discussion below, I use quotation marks " " to denote instances of fake "gender identity", and I contrast these with reality - no quotation marks.
(1) Contrary to new Dept of Education guidelines of Sept 2020, the programme perpetuated gender stereotypes in adults: the mother who, flying the face of reality, wished to "change gender" and "become a man" or "dad Jack", this mother, yes, she is still the biological mother and is STILL performing motherly duties. She has NOT become a "dad". She has stayed a mum despite having her breasts removed, taking testosterone and growing a wispy beard, and her voice changing to a lower frequency register. So what, exactly, is the point of the "change of gender"? The "gender" is a "costume", a fake identity. Why would any caring mother want to inflict such pain on her children? I don't know and this programme offers no answers. It only raises very uncomfortable questions.
(2) (3) and (4): Again you have not addressed the points which I raised.
Overall, the children of trans parents are left utterly confused, frightened and abandoned by the selfish behaviour of their mothers. They are mourning the death of their biological mothers. One of them is receiving bereavement counseling - correctly. Their feelings have been manipulated by the mothers, they are unable to call this performance by its true name, a "sham", a "performance", an "imposter syndrome". Not recognising and naming the truth is devastating to the mental health of anyone, especially a child/young adolescent. And it is true that the adolescents no longer have a role model of a mother. Why don't they? Because the mother is utterly selfish.
This programme is one of the most disturbing, destructive, sinister perversions which I have ever watched on television.
CBBC should not be commissioning such destabilising, manipulative vignettes - psychiatric histories.
The gaslighting abuse that people are expected to tolerate in the name of "being kind" to mentally ill/manipulative people is horrifying.
We are now unable to call a family member anything at all. I cannot introduce her to anyone as I won't give her a male name, but I won't argue with her and give her illness any oxygen either. We are dreading her coming round for Christmas, as she takes every opportunity to force her belief system into the conversation, distressing everyone. We avoid discussing her idealogy as a courtesy to her, because everyone agrees with reality and we don't want to gang up on her.
As a group, the family could logically and factually decimate her very easily, but care too much for her feelings to do so. She threatens self harm if reality is touched upon at all, and has actually carried it out in the past, so she has us over a barrel. If we tell her, however gently and supportively, but reality is real and you can't change sex love, she has a total melt down. If we don't (and we definitely don't) and just avoid the subject she keeps emotionally abusing us by trying to force us to say 2 +2 = 5.
Transologists are never happy to simply believe whatever they want, quietly. They must force obeisance on everyone around them. I suppose it's because they know it's crap, deep deep down, and the quiet voice of cognitive dissonance is silenced for a while if they manage to get someone to agree with them.
She tries to enforce her idealogy at every stage. She told her sister that she is upset that after years of trying to get us to believe the earth is flat we now just avoid the subject altogether. It's like having an Islamic or Christian Evangelist fundamentalist screaming abuse at us, except somehow it's supposed to be ok if you're a Transologist. She talks constantly about how abusive we are all being by just ignoring the subject altogether and being welcoming and kind to her.
It would be far easier for us to simply say "yep no worries love, you're a bloke all good" and then barely have anything to do with her. But because we love her, we cannot help her hurt herself. So we try to keep her in our lives, always hoping she will find her way back to reality. We keep a light burning in the window, and she spits venom at us because we won't affirm anti science woobabble.
I worked in mental health for years. A key tenet of psychosis (when people lose contact with reality) is that you NEVER join in and humour the mentally unwell person. You are supposed only to not argue with them, de-escalate, make them feel safe, but absolutely NEVER pretend you too could experience their delusions. It's incredibly harmful to affirm mental health delusions to anyone. They become MORE unwell by doing so, not less (as has been widely proven in the case of transology).
It is the only symptom of mental disorder that we are instructed by a mouthy minority to affirm. People who are firmly grounded in reality are expected to pretend otherwise because in this one instance, their feelpinions matter more than reality.
It's appalling. And the children you mention above are indeed being psychologically abused.
That's very kind. I do so wish they allowed an edit function here, the amount of times I sloppily don't proof read and have to delete and start again is staggering :)
You’re not alone in regretting the lack of an edit function. It’s hard to keep on top of this unfolding and enraging s***show in the middle of busy, (now covid crazy) lives, never mind comment coherently & succinctly.
Oh, gosh Alice Anne (& anyone else here in a similar position) my heart truly goes out to those who continue to try to accommodate relatives and loved ones who have been sucked into the vortex of this all-consuming cult, particularly at this time of the year. It must be incredibly stressful conducting Christmas business as usual when you have such pressure continually bubbling under the surface. I can only imagine that it leaves people more prone than ever to escalation into arguments with the cultist in question.
Not being able to use either a name or pronoun to describe a close family member probably doesn't sound that dreadful to the casual observer - however, it surely would be the kind of thing that irritates, rankles, as it forces one to continually test the boundaries of linguistics. The fear that you might accidentally say the "wrong thing" and trigger someone to self-harm must be paralysing, even though you KNOW that it's not really your fault, per se... It's no way to live, yet what can you do?
That’s very difficult for you and your family. I hope this Christmas is more peaceful.
We don’t encourage and applaud weight loss in children and adults unfortunate enough to suffer from anorexia; yet God forbid, we would dare not feed into this damaging delusion.
I am so sorry. Perhaps Graham would give you space here to post this story, if you were willing to do so? It’s definitely worth getting out there and will bring comfort to other families who are in similar situation.
I could write a tome. The problem is, it's not just my story. And it would end up a novella. Even trying to explain why I can't write about it would take me half a page,, I have already written, re written and finally deleted several long comments by way of reply. Maybe someday I will write it as a work of fiction, changing names to protect the guilty.
Oh, and to be clear I know that what we are going through is NOTHING like what you have endured Una-Jane, or what these poor children are going through. We are the tip of the iceberg, our family member only really has the power to hurt herself, from a practical standpoint. What you and your children and these other children have experienced is horrifying.
I will gladly give to any crowdfunder you organise. I'd love it if you would consider allowing Paypal to accept donations, if you get that far.
My task in 2021 is to see (1) what case we might be able to make now or in another year and (2) how many other transwidows in UK would join me. Framing the legal case depends critically on evidence, and not every transwidow has kept or wants to keep evidence. I have all e-mails, including NHS. We need research evidence about effect of abandonment on Transwidows.
I truly admire your perseverance in this matter, especially as it is rather an accepted and well-known fact that complaints to the BBC on such matters are too often brushed aside.
I do wish there was a simpler route for many such as yourself, and possibly others on the likes of this site, to make valid complaints and receive *VALID* answers.
I can only hope and wish for more power to your pen.
(Good luck - though "luck" should not enter into the equation.)
I had nearly forgotten what it was like to be able to tell the truth online about the fact that men aren't women, gender = personality, gender roles are invented by society and nobody in the history of humanity has ever changed sex. I had nearly forgotten what it was like to be able to speak the truth online without being blocked, censored and attacked. This forum is a lifeline to sanity.
"This is Rhona Hotchkiss, who was a prison governor in Scotland for 10 years, talking about self-ID and the effect on not just the women prisoners but also the staff working there.
She couldn't speak out whilst still a civil servant. She's speaking now."
Thanks for sharing this tweet Alice Anne. The speaker is very impressive and obviously has a wealth of professional experience on her side. I only hope she gets to speak to wider audiences.
I spose the men arent as bothered cos it doesnt affect them in same way and of course they want to be seen as trendy and relevant - the female actors well they are risking everything but it is very sad state of affairs that their collective silence is deafening.
There is some movement towards accepting the reality that men aren't women, however the Woobabble Anti Reality Transologists are still fighting hard to harm women. Eddie Izzard being the latest case in point.
We need to keep our shoulder against the wheel, financially support people who insist that women have human rights where we can, morally and emotionally support them where we can, keep writing, keep commenting, keep collecting evidence on WART attacks on women's sex based human rights. With Ireland very recently telling women that men can have their spaces, rights, political positions and achievements by saying "I'm a lady!" we can see that we're not there yet, not even close.
I am not too sure about that. Perhaps the outrageous screams of the perpetually outraged have indeed reached full tide but until the ebb begins to flow, and it has not done so as yet, watchfulness must be maintained.
It's women who are exhausting, who don't want to know - it's life-long friends who refuse to engage with me or read JK's actual essay. Women on SM who fawn over Elliot/Ellen and coo over Eddie publicly. Content in the safety of the correct bubble, why would the average Jo or Joanne step up and call BS on the TRAs? What's in it for them? Ostracisation. Who wants that? Easier to swallow bad science and screech Terf and Be Kind than risk losing your job and friends. People are moral cowards,because the alternative is worse.
Nothing changes. Love the crickets 😂 so true. Women are meant to just suck all the insults and take blame, carry responsibility and do it all “cheaply” and psychically because rampant misogyny and male pattern violence can’t be challenged or even spoken of except in hushed whispers. Not even in book clubs or study groups or Women’s studies at universities in case some MRA in a dress with his woman brain gets offended. Ludicrous.
Some happy news, an actually supportive article discussing JK Rowling published under the generally gynophobic beeb umbrella. Shame the author didn't quite dare say "And of course she's right because reality doesn't care about your feelpinions", but still. https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55350905
My goodness! Thank you for that link, Alice Anne.
Do you know, reading that article you linked to has actually given me a wee bit of a lift in these times of despondency.
The fact that it was on a BBC site really does give me some hope and I admire the author for actually managing to get something - anything - supportive of JK Rowling published on that site.
(As an aside - I had never, ever bothered with the Harry Potter books, they never appealed to me. However, when the sh*tstorm descended on JK Rowling I bought the first book in her Robert Galbraith "Cormoran Strike" series, and by gad sir! She really is a writer and a half! I now have the full set and can recommend them to anyone.)
Thank you, added to my list.
Thanks for sharing this Alice Anne. A glimmer of light (& courage) at the end of the tunnel, but as you say, a shame he doesn’t follow it through.
If *ANYONE* in the public eye decides to weigh in on this subject and joins the vicious diatribe against JK Rowling - as *MANY* "celebrities" have done - a site should be created and the whole damned lot of them should be named and shamed.
They should have their names appended beneath a full list of every single one of those horrid, violent, misogynist messages posted against JK Rowling.
And can any single person, on either side of the argument, deny that messages constantly boasting of "cocks" and what the perpetrators plan to do with their "cocks" is *NOT* total misogyny?
And furthermore, can *ANY* single alleged supporter of those Trans Activists posting their vile messages, can they please explain to me *WHY* such trans-monsters are transfixed with the power of their *COCKS*?
They seem to claim they are "women"!
Women do not have COCKS to abuse real women with.
Yep. Screenshot. I've been doing this because they will delete all their tweets when the tide turns. And I want to supply this stuff to journalists when they finally grow a pair.
It is absolutely extraordinary why some young men have so much time and violence to waste on a fabulously successful author whom they do not know. Just detached from any idea of reality!? Duh!
Your apology, Graham: thank you, just thank you and we give you so many hugs and warm wishes of appreciation for everything which you are doing for us women.
I am currently raising the stakes for transwidows, by consulting with Meghan Murphy in Canada and Stassja Frei in Australia ("Movement for Biological Reality"). I need to point out that Transwidows have been gas-lit in the UK by the NHS, the judicial service (divorce), the police. In 2007 I was convicted of common assault when my now ex-H attacked me (I had forced him to reveal a psychiatrist report), and then he laid charges - wearing a dress and a demure demeanour - to Sussex Police saying that I had attacked HIM! I had just spent 14 years like a frog being "brought to the boil" and I was "ccoked". I was so, so confused and devastated. I knew nothing about GD, narcissism, etc. I was so gas-lit (and my children were waiting for me in London) that I accepted a caution in order to escape. No, just no. NOT any more. I am working out a position for a crowdfunded action against the NHS for total lack of information and support to me and my children as the NHS abused and castrated my then husband leaving him a mutilated permanent patient with a host of iatrogenic illnesses.... Yes, it will take some time. But I am looking for other transwidows who want compensation for their ruined lives, and want to overturn trumped-up criminal convictions.
So I am full of gratitude to you. And always will be. Thank you!
I am very sorry for what has (& continues to happen) to you, Una-Jane. I wish you and your children health and happiness.
I am so so sorry for what you have been through.
My contribution: I keep complaining about the BBC's disturbing output. The particular case is CBBC's "My Life: When "Mum" became "Dad"" The BBC, a public service, are obliged to respond, although they make it as hard as possible to do so. I don't mind going on and on and on, because I believe as sure as "Transwidows are Tranwidows", that we have to keep going on. I wrote (2nd or 3rd round!):
"In your reply to me dated 12th December you did not address the points which I made.
In my discussion below, I use quotation marks " " to denote instances of fake "gender identity", and I contrast these with reality - no quotation marks.
(1) Contrary to new Dept of Education guidelines of Sept 2020, the programme perpetuated gender stereotypes in adults: the mother who, flying the face of reality, wished to "change gender" and "become a man" or "dad Jack", this mother, yes, she is still the biological mother and is STILL performing motherly duties. She has NOT become a "dad". She has stayed a mum despite having her breasts removed, taking testosterone and growing a wispy beard, and her voice changing to a lower frequency register. So what, exactly, is the point of the "change of gender"? The "gender" is a "costume", a fake identity. Why would any caring mother want to inflict such pain on her children? I don't know and this programme offers no answers. It only raises very uncomfortable questions.
(2) (3) and (4): Again you have not addressed the points which I raised.
Overall, the children of trans parents are left utterly confused, frightened and abandoned by the selfish behaviour of their mothers. They are mourning the death of their biological mothers. One of them is receiving bereavement counseling - correctly. Their feelings have been manipulated by the mothers, they are unable to call this performance by its true name, a "sham", a "performance", an "imposter syndrome". Not recognising and naming the truth is devastating to the mental health of anyone, especially a child/young adolescent. And it is true that the adolescents no longer have a role model of a mother. Why don't they? Because the mother is utterly selfish.
This programme is one of the most disturbing, destructive, sinister perversions which I have ever watched on television.
CBBC should not be commissioning such destabilising, manipulative vignettes - psychiatric histories.
The gaslighting abuse that people are expected to tolerate in the name of "being kind" to mentally ill/manipulative people is horrifying.
We are now unable to call a family member anything at all. I cannot introduce her to anyone as I won't give her a male name, but I won't argue with her and give her illness any oxygen either. We are dreading her coming round for Christmas, as she takes every opportunity to force her belief system into the conversation, distressing everyone. We avoid discussing her idealogy as a courtesy to her, because everyone agrees with reality and we don't want to gang up on her.
As a group, the family could logically and factually decimate her very easily, but care too much for her feelings to do so. She threatens self harm if reality is touched upon at all, and has actually carried it out in the past, so she has us over a barrel. If we tell her, however gently and supportively, but reality is real and you can't change sex love, she has a total melt down. If we don't (and we definitely don't) and just avoid the subject she keeps emotionally abusing us by trying to force us to say 2 +2 = 5.
Transologists are never happy to simply believe whatever they want, quietly. They must force obeisance on everyone around them. I suppose it's because they know it's crap, deep deep down, and the quiet voice of cognitive dissonance is silenced for a while if they manage to get someone to agree with them.
She tries to enforce her idealogy at every stage. She told her sister that she is upset that after years of trying to get us to believe the earth is flat we now just avoid the subject altogether. It's like having an Islamic or Christian Evangelist fundamentalist screaming abuse at us, except somehow it's supposed to be ok if you're a Transologist. She talks constantly about how abusive we are all being by just ignoring the subject altogether and being welcoming and kind to her.
It would be far easier for us to simply say "yep no worries love, you're a bloke all good" and then barely have anything to do with her. But because we love her, we cannot help her hurt herself. So we try to keep her in our lives, always hoping she will find her way back to reality. We keep a light burning in the window, and she spits venom at us because we won't affirm anti science woobabble.
I worked in mental health for years. A key tenet of psychosis (when people lose contact with reality) is that you NEVER join in and humour the mentally unwell person. You are supposed only to not argue with them, de-escalate, make them feel safe, but absolutely NEVER pretend you too could experience their delusions. It's incredibly harmful to affirm mental health delusions to anyone. They become MORE unwell by doing so, not less (as has been widely proven in the case of transology).
It is the only symptom of mental disorder that we are instructed by a mouthy minority to affirm. People who are firmly grounded in reality are expected to pretend otherwise because in this one instance, their feelpinions matter more than reality.
It's appalling. And the children you mention above are indeed being psychologically abused.
I just wanted to say I love reading your comments, Alice Anne! So eloquent
That's very kind. I do so wish they allowed an edit function here, the amount of times I sloppily don't proof read and have to delete and start again is staggering :)
You’re not alone in regretting the lack of an edit function. It’s hard to keep on top of this unfolding and enraging s***show in the middle of busy, (now covid crazy) lives, never mind comment coherently & succinctly.
Oh, gosh Alice Anne (& anyone else here in a similar position) my heart truly goes out to those who continue to try to accommodate relatives and loved ones who have been sucked into the vortex of this all-consuming cult, particularly at this time of the year. It must be incredibly stressful conducting Christmas business as usual when you have such pressure continually bubbling under the surface. I can only imagine that it leaves people more prone than ever to escalation into arguments with the cultist in question.
Not being able to use either a name or pronoun to describe a close family member probably doesn't sound that dreadful to the casual observer - however, it surely would be the kind of thing that irritates, rankles, as it forces one to continually test the boundaries of linguistics. The fear that you might accidentally say the "wrong thing" and trigger someone to self-harm must be paralysing, even though you KNOW that it's not really your fault, per se... It's no way to live, yet what can you do?
That’s very difficult for you and your family. I hope this Christmas is more peaceful.
We don’t encourage and applaud weight loss in children and adults unfortunate enough to suffer from anorexia; yet God forbid, we would dare not feed into this damaging delusion.
I am so sorry. Perhaps Graham would give you space here to post this story, if you were willing to do so? It’s definitely worth getting out there and will bring comfort to other families who are in similar situation.
I could write a tome. The problem is, it's not just my story. And it would end up a novella. Even trying to explain why I can't write about it would take me half a page,, I have already written, re written and finally deleted several long comments by way of reply. Maybe someday I will write it as a work of fiction, changing names to protect the guilty.
Oh, and to be clear I know that what we are going through is NOTHING like what you have endured Una-Jane, or what these poor children are going through. We are the tip of the iceberg, our family member only really has the power to hurt herself, from a practical standpoint. What you and your children and these other children have experienced is horrifying.
I will gladly give to any crowdfunder you organise. I'd love it if you would consider allowing Paypal to accept donations, if you get that far.
That is very kind, thank you.
My task in 2021 is to see (1) what case we might be able to make now or in another year and (2) how many other transwidows in UK would join me. Framing the legal case depends critically on evidence, and not every transwidow has kept or wants to keep evidence. I have all e-mails, including NHS. We need research evidence about effect of abandonment on Transwidows.
I truly admire your perseverance in this matter, especially as it is rather an accepted and well-known fact that complaints to the BBC on such matters are too often brushed aside.
I do wish there was a simpler route for many such as yourself, and possibly others on the likes of this site, to make valid complaints and receive *VALID* answers.
I can only hope and wish for more power to your pen.
(Good luck - though "luck" should not enter into the equation.)
I had nearly forgotten what it was like to be able to tell the truth online about the fact that men aren't women, gender = personality, gender roles are invented by society and nobody in the history of humanity has ever changed sex. I had nearly forgotten what it was like to be able to speak the truth online without being blocked, censored and attacked. This forum is a lifeline to sanity.
I feel like this is an important tweet. https://twitter.com/ShazzBakes/status/1311184910883975170
"This is Rhona Hotchkiss, who was a prison governor in Scotland for 10 years, talking about self-ID and the effect on not just the women prisoners but also the staff working there.
She couldn't speak out whilst still a civil servant. She's speaking now."
Thanks for sharing this tweet Alice Anne. The speaker is very impressive and obviously has a wealth of professional experience on her side. I only hope she gets to speak to wider audiences.
I spose the men arent as bothered cos it doesnt affect them in same way and of course they want to be seen as trendy and relevant - the female actors well they are risking everything but it is very sad state of affairs that their collective silence is deafening.
Tide has turned
There is some movement towards accepting the reality that men aren't women, however the Woobabble Anti Reality Transologists are still fighting hard to harm women. Eddie Izzard being the latest case in point.
We need to keep our shoulder against the wheel, financially support people who insist that women have human rights where we can, morally and emotionally support them where we can, keep writing, keep commenting, keep collecting evidence on WART attacks on women's sex based human rights. With Ireland very recently telling women that men can have their spaces, rights, political positions and achievements by saying "I'm a lady!" we can see that we're not there yet, not even close.
I am not too sure about that. Perhaps the outrageous screams of the perpetually outraged have indeed reached full tide but until the ebb begins to flow, and it has not done so as yet, watchfulness must be maintained.
It's women who are exhausting, who don't want to know - it's life-long friends who refuse to engage with me or read JK's actual essay. Women on SM who fawn over Elliot/Ellen and coo over Eddie publicly. Content in the safety of the correct bubble, why would the average Jo or Joanne step up and call BS on the TRAs? What's in it for them? Ostracisation. Who wants that? Easier to swallow bad science and screech Terf and Be Kind than risk losing your job and friends. People are moral cowards,because the alternative is worse.