Every time I see pronouns used by any company, I am going to annonymously email the organisation concerned using something similar to the above. It seems such an obvious thing to do, but I would never have thought of it, or been able to word it so well. Thanks for posting it Graham.
I sent this through to the Victorian Department of Health, COVID-19 Response Division a couple of months ago. I haven't received an full explanation of policies as yet.
"Both in the initial processing stages for my first dose and in the survey post vaccination regarding symptoms (voluntary), I was asked what 'gender I identified as'. My sex is female. As this is a medical procedure, questions should be limited to those of a physiological nature and be relevant to the procedure.
My concern is that the credibility of the COVID vaccination program is diminished by including questions that are not relevant to the specific type of health service being provided, such as questions about a person's subjective opinion of their gender identity.
If the purpose of this question is to make people feel safe and included while getting this procedure, it did not make me feel this way. In fact, I felt the opposite. This question made me feel like I was in the hands of a health service entirely captured by unscientific ‘gender woo’. It is an issue of credibility and that is worth considering as the government sinks so many resources into convincing people to get vaccinated."
I'm not as brave as some, but try and push back in little ways. I continued to be inspired by the activism of women like these. Thanks!
Speaking of which, I have just contacted the BBC with positive comments about today's Woman's Hour with Prof. Kathleen Stock, suggesting they might like to have more guests on who have faced similar experiences. Here is the link to the broadcast
I did too. What a great interview, and what deplorable treatment Kathleen has suffered. I went straight on to buy Material Girls, noticed on eBay that 2 others had bought a copy in the same hour 😀
It really is. I did not like her dismissal of AGP, and her singling out of Julia Long, by name, though.
What's so striking is that amongst all women writing and speaking about this, Stock is THE most moderate; the most willing to be conciliatory. Yet they went for her. BIG mistake on their part.
I am really hoping she will be snapped up by another University that still values education and academic enquiry. After a long break, and a rest of course. And on much better terms.
I’m in California and purchased my copy from Kenny’s Books in Maryland (East Coast), but the free bookmark says Kenny’s Library & Collector Services in Galway, Ireland. Helen Joyce’s book has been released in the U.S.A. by her publisher in Ireland, so maybe Professor Stock has the same arrangement. This lovely hardcover book says “Printed and bound in Great Britain by Clays Limited, Elcograf S.p.A.”
I have been emailing Nolan and Thompson direct (nolan@bbc.co.uk) Possibly with a frequency and volume that might be seen as excessive... But like you I feel there is an opportunity here. for them to look at the many many other places not already mentioned in the podcast Stonewall has reached, and the many people it has affected.
Good thinking. I will contact them too. They're probably glad to get positive responses. I'm guessing they might have had a fair amount of stick from some quarters over their podcasts so hopefully any positive feedback will be welcome.
Love this...I hadn't thought of contacting the health service here in Ireland regarding this. I have been for a few covid tests (young kids in school who bring home every cold going) and evey time i make an appointment for a test i'm asked if my gender is male/female/non binary/unknown. Like surely with important medical data such as this they need to know facts not peooles imaginings! Thank you for posting this as I think I will send an email now too.
Excellent letter! Really puts the spotlight on this craziness.
I rang M&S yesterday, re their 'Pronoun Badges' for their staff. I was put through to the HR dept, the one staff use, no idea why...but I think it was a good move by the Customer Complaints folks. I told them how deeply invasive this nonsense is to the private lives of their staff, how insane it all is and how I won't shop there at all until they leave Stonewall and stop with this Woman Hating, insane Nonsense. Obviously, the poor lass I was talking to wasn't able to pass comment...and I pointed out that the very fact she couldn't do so should show her just how controlling Transworld is, for she'd be in fear of losing her job, were she to tell me what she truly felt about this...That's exactly what M&S are doing, creating fear amongst their staff if they don't go along with this monstrous behaviour, that their jobs may suffer, or, disappear entirely, with the staff being thought of as 'transphobic'. She assured me she'd pass it up the line...We ALL have to stand up to this, because, if we don't..................................................................................................................
I wish I had the balls (unfortunate turn of phrase in this debate) to post this on LInkedin to all those wankers with their pronouns in the bios - my clients are all HR, L&D people. So there are many.
Louise, I'm lucky, in that I'm now 66, thus a pensioner...so, free to say what I want without fear of retribution, job-wise, albeit The Cancelling Ones have got me banned on Twitter without any evidence of my 'wrongdoing' being sent to me by Twitter. I also rang The Welsh Govt, spoke to a young woman who told me she was the Gender Equality Officer, (?!?, but, when I asked what this actually meant, her title, she couldn't explain. I suppressed many giggles...told her that 'gender' is just a 'feeling', so really, her title should be 'Feelings Equality Officer'. I prattled on about how insane it all is, and the dangers of Self ID, which Welsh Govt is heading towards...also directed her to the 10 part podcast on Stonewally, by Stephen Nolan, so she could pass it up the line and suggest to those in charge that they too step away from Stonewall and all this madness.... She also was unable to comment, obviously. I'll persist, not least for all those who would love to, but cannot, at present, due to fear of losing their jobs, etc. xx Onward and Upward.
Well done, and thank you. Keep going. Every book shared, every conversation, every tweet (if you are not banned, I have banned myself to 15 mins a day), we just all have to keep going.
My childs school held an assembly for Year 8 yesterday (12/13 year olds) which rubber stamped gender ideology. The good news is that parents are talking about it and when they ask me they get the whole institutional capture, gay conversion, cocks in frocks, fannies that don't work - I just think you need to get down and dirty in this debate. I have become an obsessed loon!! We are all nutters and I am proud of all of us. XX
"it does not make me feel comfortable at all, and makes me feel like they would not treat me fairly if they knew that I profoundly disagreed with their political views on the importance of women's rights"
Yes this ideologue is not mine...and I should not be discriminated because I don't believe in it.
Brilliant response to today's pronoun idiocy. I was asked at one of my hospital's service offices for my pronouns. I said don't bother me with that, that's not what I'm here for; enter whatever you'd like - I'll bet that you get it right. Unsurprisingly, they got it right, I later learned.
I have an answer prepared: "my pronouns are I, me, my, mine'. How you refer to me when I'm not there is none of my concern and frankly it's a ridiculous question"
That would raise some eyebrows, surely. Adjectives actually *do* describe us, too. The whole damned pronoun game is necessary because “trans” assertions run completely counter to observable, biological reality. I’ll try this tactic out when I have the next opportunity. Thanks!
My husband works for Merseyside Police whose staff have recently been asked to do the pronoun rubbish as part of 'inclusion week'. I wrote to our PCC (female) to ask her to raise this with the Chief Constable (also female). Amongst other things (many the same as the Mumsnet piece), I pointed out that the Police Service rightly dumped the term 'WPC' many years ago but are now once again asking female members of staff to publicly declare their sex in all correspondence just so that a tiny proportion of the workforce feel 'safe'. I received an official response stating that she would look into it and respond within 30 days. However, one of my husband's colleagues is married to her PA and he has assured us that she has this issue (and violence against women and girls) firmly in her sights. Making sure our voices are heard definitely makes a difference. Squeaky wheel and all that...
Hi Shirley, thanks for the heads up but trolls hold no fear for me. I stand by everything I say and do 100% and will never be cowed into hiding my identity by trolls or TRAs. Plus, I have nothing to cancel!
Not that I'm aware but they do have a newly appointed 'Inclusion & Diversity Officer' who we can probably assume has had the gender woo woo brainwashing or 'education & training' as it's probably referred to in the shiny brochure.
I’ve just seen your comment about your husband and the Nolan podcast. I’m glad he’s trying to keep everyone sane. Gender ideology is the last thing Merseyside needs.
This is amazing. Assuming the Mumsnetter who wrote this is happy for it to be shared, I am going to use it everywhere. #Inserts Standing Ovation GIF here
I work with people who use pronouns to sign off their emails because they work for a company that's a Stonewall Champion. I have to avoid looking below their signatures on a daily basis because it makes my blood boil and my teeth grind and I want to reply to them in caps I KNOW WHAT SEX YOU ARE!!!! (They're ALL NATAL FEMALES but on their knees with their foreheads on the carpet before the Great God Gender Woo.) I look forward to the day when pronouns just quietly disappear and nobody mentions them again, through sheer embarrassment. And people will tell their kids and grandkids for cultural history lessons about the days when we all had to pretend men could become women, and if we didn't, we could be arrested and lose our jobs, and people lived in fear of even liking tweets in case their bosses found out and they lost their livelihoods ...
So do I and I feel exactly the same way! It makes it so hard some days. I even challenged one once and they said "Well the youngsters know more than us about this". I am still puzzling over that one - to say that younger people know more because you don't understand why you are doing something and just accepting it is bizarre to me.
Older people subscribing to bugman ideology, how pathetic. Erase the past, erase history, erase knowledge, and bow down to a bunch of know-nothings carrying pink and blue flags. NEVER!
<< You would not expect to see staff stating their position on Brexit in their email signatures, with "Leave" or "Remain" added under their contact details. >>
Quite. I have to say that I had all this anger 5 years ago, then the issue came to me at my workplace and the anxiety ramped up. This stuff is Orwellian. I know that analogy is used a lot, but it really is. Things are slowly starting to move now. Some hope is creeping in.
Me too. The Caitlyn Jenner worship made me feel uneasy: Feminism Chat explained why. Every single prediction they have made about how this thing would go has been correct. Really wise women there
What a fantastic email. I thought the point about to being similar to someone putting 'leave', 'remain' or a religious phrase in an email signature is such a good angle to make people see how it comes across. Thank you for sharing it
Every time I see pronouns used by any company, I am going to annonymously email the organisation concerned using something similar to the above. It seems such an obvious thing to do, but I would never have thought of it, or been able to word it so well. Thanks for posting it Graham.
I dropped Tampax for the same reason after they posted about “menstrators”
Me too. And Superdrug when they introduced sanitary products for "people who menstruate" and I haven't been back in their since.
*there not their.
I sent this through to the Victorian Department of Health, COVID-19 Response Division a couple of months ago. I haven't received an full explanation of policies as yet.
"Both in the initial processing stages for my first dose and in the survey post vaccination regarding symptoms (voluntary), I was asked what 'gender I identified as'. My sex is female. As this is a medical procedure, questions should be limited to those of a physiological nature and be relevant to the procedure.
My concern is that the credibility of the COVID vaccination program is diminished by including questions that are not relevant to the specific type of health service being provided, such as questions about a person's subjective opinion of their gender identity.
If the purpose of this question is to make people feel safe and included while getting this procedure, it did not make me feel this way. In fact, I felt the opposite. This question made me feel like I was in the hands of a health service entirely captured by unscientific ‘gender woo’. It is an issue of credibility and that is worth considering as the government sinks so many resources into convincing people to get vaccinated."
I'm not as brave as some, but try and push back in little ways. I continued to be inspired by the activism of women like these. Thanks!
It is going to take a lot of ordinary people pushing back to make a difference. So don’t diminish your contribution!
Speaking of which, I have just contacted the BBC with positive comments about today's Woman's Hour with Prof. Kathleen Stock, suggesting they might like to have more guests on who have faced similar experiences. Here is the link to the broadcast
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001153q
and the comments form I used
https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments
I did too. What a great interview, and what deplorable treatment Kathleen has suffered. I went straight on to buy Material Girls, noticed on eBay that 2 others had bought a copy in the same hour 😀
It is an excellent book, first book of philosophy I have ever read. So clearly explained; she must be a great teacher. Really Sussex students' loss!!
It really is. I did not like her dismissal of AGP, and her singling out of Julia Long, by name, though.
What's so striking is that amongst all women writing and speaking about this, Stock is THE most moderate; the most willing to be conciliatory. Yet they went for her. BIG mistake on their part.
I am really hoping she will be snapped up by another University that still values education and academic enquiry. After a long break, and a rest of course. And on much better terms.
Just got mine delivered today in the U.S.A. Yay!
From UK? No US publishers brave evough??
I’m in California and purchased my copy from Kenny’s Books in Maryland (East Coast), but the free bookmark says Kenny’s Library & Collector Services in Galway, Ireland. Helen Joyce’s book has been released in the U.S.A. by her publisher in Ireland, so maybe Professor Stock has the same arrangement. This lovely hardcover book says “Printed and bound in Great Britain by Clays Limited, Elcograf S.p.A.”
Thank you Nings! I didn’t even know about that- definitely gonna give that a listen!
I have been emailing Nolan and Thompson direct (nolan@bbc.co.uk) Possibly with a frequency and volume that might be seen as excessive... But like you I feel there is an opportunity here. for them to look at the many many other places not already mentioned in the podcast Stonewall has reached, and the many people it has affected.
Good thinking. I will contact them too. They're probably glad to get positive responses. I'm guessing they might have had a fair amount of stick from some quarters over their podcasts so hopefully any positive feedback will be welcome.
Love this...I hadn't thought of contacting the health service here in Ireland regarding this. I have been for a few covid tests (young kids in school who bring home every cold going) and evey time i make an appointment for a test i'm asked if my gender is male/female/non binary/unknown. Like surely with important medical data such as this they need to know facts not peooles imaginings! Thank you for posting this as I think I will send an email now too.
Same.
Colds and viruses are known to be quite transphobic, not respecting people's inherent sense of gender woo-woo.
That is a great response.
Excellent letter! Really puts the spotlight on this craziness.
I rang M&S yesterday, re their 'Pronoun Badges' for their staff. I was put through to the HR dept, the one staff use, no idea why...but I think it was a good move by the Customer Complaints folks. I told them how deeply invasive this nonsense is to the private lives of their staff, how insane it all is and how I won't shop there at all until they leave Stonewall and stop with this Woman Hating, insane Nonsense. Obviously, the poor lass I was talking to wasn't able to pass comment...and I pointed out that the very fact she couldn't do so should show her just how controlling Transworld is, for she'd be in fear of losing her job, were she to tell me what she truly felt about this...That's exactly what M&S are doing, creating fear amongst their staff if they don't go along with this monstrous behaviour, that their jobs may suffer, or, disappear entirely, with the staff being thought of as 'transphobic'. She assured me she'd pass it up the line...We ALL have to stand up to this, because, if we don't..................................................................................................................
Well done you, that's amazing!
Well done.
I wish I had the balls (unfortunate turn of phrase in this debate) to post this on LInkedin to all those wankers with their pronouns in the bios - my clients are all HR, L&D people. So there are many.
Louise, I'm lucky, in that I'm now 66, thus a pensioner...so, free to say what I want without fear of retribution, job-wise, albeit The Cancelling Ones have got me banned on Twitter without any evidence of my 'wrongdoing' being sent to me by Twitter. I also rang The Welsh Govt, spoke to a young woman who told me she was the Gender Equality Officer, (?!?, but, when I asked what this actually meant, her title, she couldn't explain. I suppressed many giggles...told her that 'gender' is just a 'feeling', so really, her title should be 'Feelings Equality Officer'. I prattled on about how insane it all is, and the dangers of Self ID, which Welsh Govt is heading towards...also directed her to the 10 part podcast on Stonewally, by Stephen Nolan, so she could pass it up the line and suggest to those in charge that they too step away from Stonewall and all this madness.... She also was unable to comment, obviously. I'll persist, not least for all those who would love to, but cannot, at present, due to fear of losing their jobs, etc. xx Onward and Upward.
Well done, and thank you. Keep going. Every book shared, every conversation, every tweet (if you are not banned, I have banned myself to 15 mins a day), we just all have to keep going.
My childs school held an assembly for Year 8 yesterday (12/13 year olds) which rubber stamped gender ideology. The good news is that parents are talking about it and when they ask me they get the whole institutional capture, gay conversion, cocks in frocks, fannies that don't work - I just think you need to get down and dirty in this debate. I have become an obsessed loon!! We are all nutters and I am proud of all of us. XX
Please speak to the school and send them the Transgender Trend educational materials. Or post them anonymously :)
I am on it. Going to post office today (have included books)
I hope someone reads them. Ideally headteacher and chair of govs. Let us know how you get on x
sending to owner of the school group (independent schools) my husband thinks they will not get read. am doing anonymously.
Thank you for persisting and doing this.
I do as well.
"it does not make me feel comfortable at all, and makes me feel like they would not treat me fairly if they knew that I profoundly disagreed with their political views on the importance of women's rights"
Yes this ideologue is not mine...and I should not be discriminated because I don't believe in it.
Bloody love this and the woman (she/fab) who wrote it. Will be nicking and repurposing with gay abandon.
With gay abandon - you have certainly set us all straight there 😂
Brilliant response to today's pronoun idiocy. I was asked at one of my hospital's service offices for my pronouns. I said don't bother me with that, that's not what I'm here for; enter whatever you'd like - I'll bet that you get it right. Unsurprisingly, they got it right, I later learned.
🤣 Good on you, sir! Thank you for refusing to coddle the cult members!
At my age, the only thing I coddle are my eggs.
I have an answer prepared: "my pronouns are I, me, my, mine'. How you refer to me when I'm not there is none of my concern and frankly it's a ridiculous question"
Or maybe what we should do is act all confused about grammatical terminology and give our adjectives instead: crotchety/discombobulated/fabulous
My husband said if anyone ever asked him his pronouns he would reply WTF.
That would raise some eyebrows, surely. Adjectives actually *do* describe us, too. The whole damned pronoun game is necessary because “trans” assertions run completely counter to observable, biological reality. I’ll try this tactic out when I have the next opportunity. Thanks!
Pretty snappy response that is!
My husband works for Merseyside Police whose staff have recently been asked to do the pronoun rubbish as part of 'inclusion week'. I wrote to our PCC (female) to ask her to raise this with the Chief Constable (also female). Amongst other things (many the same as the Mumsnet piece), I pointed out that the Police Service rightly dumped the term 'WPC' many years ago but are now once again asking female members of staff to publicly declare their sex in all correspondence just so that a tiny proportion of the workforce feel 'safe'. I received an official response stating that she would look into it and respond within 30 days. However, one of my husband's colleagues is married to her PA and he has assured us that she has this issue (and violence against women and girls) firmly in her sights. Making sure our voices are heard definitely makes a difference. Squeaky wheel and all that...
Hi Vicky. Maybe worth deleting this and reposting anonymised as there are trolls on this site?
Hi Shirley, thanks for the heads up but trolls hold no fear for me. I stand by everything I say and do 100% and will never be cowed into hiding my identity by trolls or TRAs. Plus, I have nothing to cancel!
I was thinking of your husband too but if he’s not prepared either to put up with this nonsense there’s no problem! 👏👏👏
He's more of a warrior than us! He's got the whole office listening to the Nolan podcast through their headphones!
That is brilliant. A real mole. Just what the police service need if they are to shake themselves from their stupor. Thank you both x
But sincere thanks for thinking of us💕
Thanks so much both of you for your courage.This gives me hope that there are police officers who understand what is happening.
Are Merseyside police working for stonewall?
Not that I'm aware but they do have a newly appointed 'Inclusion & Diversity Officer' who we can probably assume has had the gender woo woo brainwashing or 'education & training' as it's probably referred to in the shiny brochure.
I’ve just seen your comment about your husband and the Nolan podcast. I’m glad he’s trying to keep everyone sane. Gender ideology is the last thing Merseyside needs.
This is amazing. Assuming the Mumsnetter who wrote this is happy for it to be shared, I am going to use it everywhere. #Inserts Standing Ovation GIF here
I work with people who use pronouns to sign off their emails because they work for a company that's a Stonewall Champion. I have to avoid looking below their signatures on a daily basis because it makes my blood boil and my teeth grind and I want to reply to them in caps I KNOW WHAT SEX YOU ARE!!!! (They're ALL NATAL FEMALES but on their knees with their foreheads on the carpet before the Great God Gender Woo.) I look forward to the day when pronouns just quietly disappear and nobody mentions them again, through sheer embarrassment. And people will tell their kids and grandkids for cultural history lessons about the days when we all had to pretend men could become women, and if we didn't, we could be arrested and lose our jobs, and people lived in fear of even liking tweets in case their bosses found out and they lost their livelihoods ...
So do I and I feel exactly the same way! It makes it so hard some days. I even challenged one once and they said "Well the youngsters know more than us about this". I am still puzzling over that one - to say that younger people know more because you don't understand why you are doing something and just accepting it is bizarre to me.
Older people subscribing to bugman ideology, how pathetic. Erase the past, erase history, erase knowledge, and bow down to a bunch of know-nothings carrying pink and blue flags. NEVER!
Love this line:
<< You would not expect to see staff stating their position on Brexit in their email signatures, with "Leave" or "Remain" added under their contact details. >>
Mumsnetters - concerned about kids and good at rooting out nasty stains - the perfect combination to take on gender crap
Mumsnet peaked me five years ago… forever grateful.
Same, similarly grateful. And good tips for leggings and household stains - it's the whole package!
And me but I'm ashamed to say only two years ago. On the other hand I'm glad not to have been angry for five years!
Quite. I have to say that I had all this anger 5 years ago, then the issue came to me at my workplace and the anxiety ramped up. This stuff is Orwellian. I know that analogy is used a lot, but it really is. Things are slowly starting to move now. Some hope is creeping in.
I listened to 1984 recently and I found myself laughing out loud about spot on it is. Especially the rewriting of history.
Same here!!
Me too. The Caitlyn Jenner worship made me feel uneasy: Feminism Chat explained why. Every single prediction they have made about how this thing would go has been correct. Really wise women there
What a fantastic email. I thought the point about to being similar to someone putting 'leave', 'remain' or a religious phrase in an email signature is such a good angle to make people see how it comes across. Thank you for sharing it
This is so helpful to share with colleagues even in a "have you thought of how you are making some people feel by your use of pronouns?" kind of way.
Brilliant- I’m also facing the situation in the workplace. Cannot wait to adapt this to my needs.