I have nothing but respect for KJK. She is smart, down to Earth, and couldn't be better at communicating her message. She is also usually very graceful about the women that are viciously trying to sabotage her. Massive respect to her, and a large amount of side eye to the women trying to tarnish her by association.
I'm a bloke, and I am aware that my contribution to feminism might just be as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit.
The attacks on Posie are a combination of laughable and distressing to me.
She is displaying more fortitude than anyone I can think of (outside Iran and Afghanistan).
I'm genuinely concerned that a TRA lunatic will physically attack her. It puts the 'I don't feel safe' brigade into even sharper focus. Her family must be at their wits end.
I'll relax when she has returned back to the UK safely.
Good is indivisible. It hurts me to see men feel so unwelcome in what is essentially a human rights struggle. A struggle to end a patriarchy that diminishes everyone. A struggle that will benefit all of us. Good is indivisible. Real true feminism is good for women, children, and men. What’s good for women is good for men is good for children. It’s good for girls and boys, teen girls and teen boys, young women and young men. Good for all of us. Good is indivisible.
Well said. This point is so often lost as it really isn't about man hating, which many seem to think it is. Ridiculous stereotyped gender roles hurt us all, so genderology is that writ large.
I admit that as a gay man who was always supportive of feminists, I’m starting to lose patience with some of the radfems in the movement:
-They ask where the men are when TRAs attack them at demonstrations, but I've seen many men turned away (myself included) when they say they want to participate in a feminist demonstration, with the same variation of "this is a space for women, we don't need men to protect us".
-On several occasions I have seen the same women ask "where have the gay men been these last few years?" only to see them mocking men with crude homophobia, jokes about AIDS, telling us to stop complaining because gender ideology only affects our saunas (no, it doesn't), that we hate women like all men, blaming us for surrogacy (none of the GC gays I know have used women for surrogacy), etc.
-they violently attack male detransitioners when they want to talk about the role feminism may have played in their view of masculinity
-they stab KJK and other women in the back for reasons unknown.
And then they complain that they have been alone in this fight for years and are exhausted! No shit, Sherlock.
Thank God most feminists aren't like this, but I don't see how they can hope to win this movement if they keep pushing potential allies away with this nonsense.
Huge thanks to you and also for detailing why you think how you think and what you think! And your nuance. Now that is something I can work with. What has led to further ennui for me is how this unfolded over the past week or two and tracking back what happened is being obscured. I once had my ear bent about Sufragettes vs Suffragists and all this is reminiscent.
I also like that we can discuss here based on what we write and depending on our screen name it's sometimes hard to tell if we are women, men, LGB or TQIA+.
The UK has imported some strains of US 'Antifa' type thinking, then people here are unaware of what that means in practice in the US. We have our own Antifa flavours but they are different. The guns thing does make it different. The histories make it different. The Constitution makes it different.
Having had a shufty I can see there are photos of KJK in the US with Proud Boys (and/or other affiliated type of off-shoots), but then it's tricky as there are other images circulating with Nazi flags, other peed off people, then things where it's hard to work out the source and quotes taken out of context. All smushed up as being 'those who are wrong'. Then the outright lies. There's a meme of Helen Joyce with 'quotes' about disabled and genocide. It's a huge stretch to claim Helen is advocating what some are inferring. Some are linking the Hearts of Oak presence with or without KJK's 'permission' at the recent event in Brighton which had plenty of footage.
It reminded me of the Deplorables thing. My heart sank at that point, and I wondered who was advising the Democrats that insulting the voting public would encourage them to vote for them. It did the exact opposite. And we're still at that point. Midterms is a febrile time. There are things at stake.
We are in a very dangerous and messy place where they are many pissed off people who feel disenfranchised (some have guns), who take their values and view of their nation and country very seriously. Then they are being ignored, feel ignored and told they are fascist. This 'pick a side' thing is terrifying. What a choice - which side to run from or to? Men in masks with knives and guns or men in big hats with...knives and guns. Men and women need to work together. And be realistic and pragmatic.
I think it takes some in the UK who are unfamilar with guns a while to realise that some people with guns are highly law abiding and I thought it would be obvious why (they are used to them). Not everyone with a gun is a freak or a terrorist. I have sometimes felt very safe, and oddly safer around those with guns who are trained to think and behave calmly around them.
I'm not sure how any of that would lead people to think I was Right wing, Left wing or neither and if they hurl something at me, they lose ground and credibility.
I wonder how this will pan out again, and if KJK, JCJ and JB can address the claims made. I will check KJK's channel as I suspect she will have already, or will address this directly.
You're right and personally, I'm pleased to see more and more men joining the demonstrations. If both men and women push back against the trans menace, we're more likely to be listened to rather than be dismissed as cranky women.
KJK has really brought this fight to the fore and this is what we should focus on. I don't always agree with her but in the fight against TRAs, she's been great. Let's not concern ourselves with her other views, they are not relevant to us right now.
Point 1 - “Where are all the men we expect to come rescue us” says no feminist ever.
Point 2 - References same mythological women that are expecting rescue from men AND attributes mocking homophobia and gaslighting to said creatures. (Gay men DO exploit women through surrogacy - your personal friend group isn’t relevant.).
Point 3 - Feminism is about centering WOMEN’S interests and abolishing gender stereotypes. Yes, I would expect that they would be rather unpersuaded by the line of thinking that blames feminists for the delusional thinking and rigid adherence to gender stereotypes found in TIMs. Not to mention the huge role that porn plays in turbocharging their ideology and practices. Feminists are certainly to blame for our porn-saturated culture too. I really can’t understand why women aren’t more generous to de-TIMs. We must do better.
Point 4 - Maybe one day feminists can become the fair-minded peace keepers that men have demonstrated themselves to be. #dobetterladies
Point 5 - and there it is. We’re the problem. There is a whole world of men who would gladly take up this fight, but their scruples prevent them from working alongside non-perfect people AND we hurt their feelings.
Point 1: I’ve heard women who say they are feminists say that, I’ve seen them write it. Or are they the wrong kind of feminists?
Point 2: I’ve seen that too. Are you saying I’m a liar? Regarding surrogacy: yes, some women seem to blame gay men when most of the surrogacies are for straight couples, but somehow they are not attacking the women who do it. Again, some women.
Point 3: did you listen to males detransitioners? Not all of them were porn addicts and have said they have issues with how masculinity is perceived today. I’m not saying they are right, but I think they raise some interesting questions.
Point 4: that’s not what I’m saying. Nice DARVO.
POINT 5: that’s not what I’m saying. A lot of men are helping already, like me. So either you can’t read, or you reply in bad faith.
“What a load of bollocks”: yes, we can agree you write a lot of bollocks.
You specifically call out radfeminists, and I’m quite sure I know many more than you. They do not wander around asking “where are the men?” They don’t.
You may be interested in the interesting questions of TIMs who are detransitioning, but many women are not when these interesting questions begin with the premise that feminism has anything whatsoever with the mental delusions, sexual kinks, and predatory behavior of TIMs. I would recommend that they look for more a more receptive audience than radical feminists.
I can read just fine. Your final point in the post was that women are self-defeating, have run the men off with their complaining about surrogacy, their hostility to being assigned any sort of role in the rise of the TIM, and their backstabbing of other women. You conclude ‘no shit sherlock’, as if women’s behavior justifies the state of the movement and men’s absence. That was exactly your point and I faithfully recounted it.
Yesss! It isn't about men-hating at all though I do think that some feminists have been clear enough on that. Look at KJK, I feel she does a great job setting femalism apart. More and more men are turning up to events, she lets them speak (occasionally before women, though only if needs be). She values their contribution. She understands that many of them are dads of kids in the cult. I suppose what is happening to children does broaden this specific campaign but still - men's voices are welcome! I love it!
No of course feminism isn't about that but sadly it is definitely about man-hating, woman-hating, sneering and hating full stop for some who call themselves all sorts of things - this is part of how incels gained so much ground, they had the impression they were hated, or didn't feel celebrated as others' rights were being made prominent, this fed in to their 'nobody loves me' wail, so they go and slaughter people to 'get them back'.
Like what Tellus Quislet wrote above. It's why waves of feminism are so important to see in context. You get some acting like and assuming all gay men hate all women, all lesbians hate all men. I found it the opposite - that this is actually bringing men and women together, left and right, gay, straight and bisexual and even uniting those in constituent parts of the UK. And those men who identify as trans, but say very openly that they are men.
It's really sad that we have to state this all, but we do. Then actual hate is dressed up as inclusion.
We get really weird statements like 'all women now want to kill babies' (usually from slightly unhinged men). And 'you want women's rights and equality, so you want all babies murdered'. Huh? There's a lot of conflating.
Yeah I get you. I need to brush up on the waves of feminism. I'm not all that familiar with it and as a result, I'm a bit naive. I think that's because the only time it has ever sparked a real interest for me is when KJK came along. Of course the fight is very real (and extends to children) but aside from that, it's the first time I feel a sense of belonging to it. Before then I always felt too unintelligent (versus the academic types), or too exclusionary (versus intersectional feminists). I really believe KJK's message is on point. It annoys me that women who support her are treated as cult followers. No, it's because we resonate so much with the message!
Only so you can identify which bits are which so you can feel more confident in talking, engaging, debating and holding or ceding your ground where you need. Bullying anyone into a position is just that, bullying. The fact that women who 'do feminism' are snarling about picking other women off is bizarre to watch.
Please, never feel 'too unintelligent'. That makes me want to weep. It's the Goldilocks view of life that others tell us we're never quite good enough to be in their club and none of us live in a fairytale. Intersectionality now seems like a regressive, point-scoring football wallchart of goodness.
Some are reacting with real glee that the overprivileged in London are losing their arts funding which smells of stirring up political division. We have centres of excellence all over the UK, but all lot of this 'rebalancing' seems driven by spite and revenge.
I believe KJK is on point too. I like nice food, but that doesn't mean I'm in the cult of nice food. I'm also a fan of not going hungry, but I'm not in the anti-hunger cult. The need to believe in something (anything, whatever) is never something I would have thought could be driving so much but it's a good explanation for a lot of this.
I got grief on FB ages ago because I qualified my comment by writing that I'm not a feminist. I was told that I obviously don't want equal pay for women, etc. The assumption that what you write implies a lot of other things (as if humans were mind readers) is tiresome.
I don't call myself a feminist because I've never read any Germaine Greer or Betty Friedan (though I truly respect them) but I've no interest in the likes of Camille Pagliari or Naomi Wolf, and I'm repulsed by feminists who've espoused queer theory.
Women, of whatever philosophy should still stick together and the more men friends, gay or straight, join us, the better. I personally also welcome transsexual women (post op) who stand up for us (notably Debbie Hayton). I know several women on this site have had personal problems over this and that's fair enough, but transsexuals are not transgender and if they want to distance themselves from the transgender bullshit, this makes it harder for TRAs to attack back, so it can help us too.
KJ is always getting attacked by people on the "same side". She was called a pound shop Marine Le Pen I believe. Absolutely disgraceful and unfounded. It stinks of snobbery and jealousy of the massive impact she has made. Yet KJ always says she will stand alongside those women in this fight no matter what they've said about her. She is the adult with one aim...to beat this trans movement. Phil Marlowe
To be honest I've always been sceptical when accusations like that are made against people. Whenever I've heard so and so is a fascist I've tried to find out all I can about and by them. Without fail you'll find no proof of fascism etc. The number done on you Graham is an example of these smear tactics. Phil Marlowe
I agree, this comparison was utterly crass. I travelled 150 miles to vote against Le Pen earlier this year (I'm French) but I have nothing but admiration for KJK
I have not heard her say that. What I have heard her say is that she is not a feminist, also the only "side" I have heard her say she is on is that of women and children. She doesn't need me, a bloke defending her, please just listen to her and let what she says speak for her.
Oh dear don’t you like women to use their skills? How is she supposed to spread her billboard message or fund her work? You expect her not only to do the risky groundwork but also self fund?
Selliing your book at a conference is being a business woman too, whether it's got a feminist change the world message in or not. Likely theres a middle man or woman, that's all. Agent/publisher. (middleman/middle class) Ditto selling a journal. It's all business. KJK is a brilliant business woman. She's selling the message and funding herself and her campaigning at the same time. Great way to earn a living as well. She's got great products with a great message.
Some just go in for the priestly patreon begging bowl. Some do product and begging. Some campaign by dipping in their own pocket. What's your point. I prefer the business model. Take your choice.
it's fine to make money from your work and ideas. It's a business model. It's not a dirty business model. The form and substance of KJK's business is/are married up perfectly. Elegant!
Even if she was making something it would be ok. I hope she is. Some people I have worked with over the years, on above average wages, don’t work that hard. Posie looks like one of life’s grafters to me
i can't stand that trolling word. You need a devil's advocate. I welcome so called trolls. Aren't they just people with opposing opinions. Excuse piety:)
She is not in my side. She is undermining feminism and attacking anyone who dares to disagree with her. Yes, I watch her Shopping Channel. The way she has been attacking other women is absolutely horrendous.
Shopping channel? When it comes to fighting GI she means business. The Iconic dictionary definition shirt is famous world wide, Copied by all. It works. I wore mine once and someone on the fence targeted me for a long gender conversation. She's no control freak. At SFW events she enables every woman to speak for herself.
She is on the side of women and children, which puts her on the same side as some of us who still call ourselves feminists - those of us whose feminism is and always has been about women's liberation and not male entitlement to redefine what we are.
If anyone ever looks down on you, uses deliberately obscure or impenetrable language and you get that gut instinct they are trying to appear superior, then you have every right to feel that. We are always allowed to ask questions, and if we don't get a point someone has made, we are allowed to ask again. That doesn't mean we are stupid.
I speak as a subject matter expert, who frequently gets patronised and doubt myself. We are allowed to have knowledge and expertise, but not to use that to bash others over the head. We lose credibility in doing so. What we all know should be used to help others.
Women can take back feminism from those gatekeepers who tell any woman it's not for them as they are 'thick fecks'.
Yes, that's a reference to Julie Bindel who must be struggling to walk after shooting herself, all of us, all academics and big 'F' feminism in the foot repeatedly again for some reason. She had a brilliant, righteous win against Nottingham City Council for deplatforming her earlier in the year and I was cheering that. Now this.
I have worked with some hugely unpleasant people and had to smile through crap because there is a wider goal.
People are asking JCJ and JB to change tack, stop the attacks and JCJ was Tweeting back #LetWomenSpeak. To use our freedom to speak to bitch and undermine other women is unhelpful to say the least.
I feel like the aim is to convolute ideas so that ordinary people like me don't get it, so they get to keep it in their hands. A monopoly on the debate, I suppose. I watched a debate with JB once on YT, all about prostitution and I struggled to follow her meaning! Pure elitism. Perhaps it's one I need to re-watch but it shouldn't be so difficult! Her approach is certainly no call to action.
JB claims she's all for working class women. Her prison work is amazing but what about politically active working class women, or women not in the academic elite? Is this 'saviour' mentality? I'm the divine one, I'll fix it. Only my apostles can help.
I too, was cheering her win with Nottingham Council. I still support her now in many ways, though I won't ever defend comments like "thick feck". Like you say, there is a wider goal.
All respect to the people like KS, HJ and GL who will openly support everyone in the fight, and who refuse to denounce anyone unfairly.
I saw some incredible data and graphs on who and how they voted in recent and past elections. Overlooking the 'not interested in politics' or put off by politics/politicians at your peril and that it's women's votes that often swing elections but are often overlooked for some reason ;-)
If I remember it was clearly women who brought the Tories to power last time. I think that's why they are being advised to steer a very careful line over all this. And the basics of what women are. I also seem to recall Labour have just squandered an enormous poll lead in England despite the absolute shitshow of recent weeks (months/years...).
100% correct. You'd think Politicians would pay more attention to the Woman vote but Keir Starmer and some of the Labour handmaidens seem determined to ignore us along with our mob here in Scotland who have just passed the 1st Stage of GRR Act - Self ID.
There has been at least four polls showing support at less than 30% of the population and still they push on.
We now know exactly where we stand and I'll never vote for theses arseholes again.
ps. I have come to the conclusion Starmer does not want to win the next election. Labour can't fix the shitshow, reckon he wants the Tories to fully 'own it. Alienating 51% of the voting public can only be deliberate.
The SNP has overwhelming support in Scotland, doesn't it? And where it doesn't, I suppose it's "better the devil you know" for lots of people. They are so established. It really requires a mutiny!
Interesting point about Starmer throwing the election. He has absolutely no backbone so wouldn't it surprise me. Imagine getting paid to take a SEEMINGLY (not actually) more moral standpoint. Ideal in lots of ways.
KJK says that she gave up on the word 'feminist' after seeing what handmaidens many of them are in this battle, and after being slandered and abused by some who call themselves feminists. I don't blame her; it's been very disheartening for me to see. But I am still a feminist. I won't let anyone re-define it for me.
KJK has a YT platform of over 60,000 subscribers and she is sharing this large platform with every woman who takes the mic at an SFW gathering. My Miami friend Alex spoke passionately at the latest Speakers Corner outside Sidhbh Gallagher's clinic. The vid has already had 8,000 views. So my friend, and the other women, get a space to reach a much wider audience.. Thanks to KJK. Kellie Jay is really enabling women.
We've all enjoyed so many unforgettable Posie moments in the last 5 years of this fight. Every step of the way, Posie has brought new allies into this fight, and in doing so she has always displayed an incredibly positive and generous spirit - her ideas and courage have spear-headed this movement's momentum. Because of Posie's willingness to be 'the face' of GC women, especially on her many TV appearances, she ensured that our campaigning reached a much bigger and broader audience than anyone else has managed in this fight - we should all feel so glad to have Posie on our side and by our side - she is not perfect - nobody is - but she's inspiring, relentless and 'all-in' for women and children. Much love to her. If anyone wants to chip in here with a Posie memory, please do - I'll start: Her brilliant 'I Love JK' poster campaign at Edinburgh Station.
I’ve been to several of her events and I was surprised by how little she actually spoke at some of them. She genuinely wants to provide an opportunity for all women to speak and to network. Even when they say things that people don’t agree with, she asks everyone to be courteous and listen or move away to talk. Above all, she has brought this debate into the public sphere for people like me (who didn’t study feminist theory/history and don’t have the time or will to do so). I think she’s amazing and inspiring, and because of her I no longer use the term “transwoman” or any of their nonsense language!
Come on, join in! Another one: Kellie-Jay pool-side at the NCAA Championships to Lia Thomas: 'It's a man' and to a disgruntled TRA fan, 'I'm not a vet but I know what a dog is!'
I didn't know whether to throw my laptop out of the window, or jump out of it myself! The ignorance was STARTLING! Kellie-Jay was amazing though. Legend.
I’m worried about her. She’s extremely brave. She doesn’t sit in her Ivory tower writing clever articles. She’s on the front line being spat at. And as you say...they have guns. I’m praying for her and the brave women around her. If being a feminist means slagging up KJK, then I’m no feminist. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Women who slag up other women are not worthy of that label. I’ve come off Twitter because of the vitriol from some very well known feminists. I respect their work, but can’t stand their bitching.
Wasn’t it Madeleine Albright who said there should be a special place in Hell for women who don’t help each other? I think Kellie Jay is great - straightforward, courageous, clear headed - and always wonderfully glamorous. My three adult daughters are enthusiasts too. We all chip in when we can.
Any woman trashing Kelly-Jay is no feminist. Rather like Nicola Sturgeon who, when criticised by J K Rowling for her drive for self-id, had the audacity to say that she was the “real feminist”. Aye right, Nicola.
The word feminist got soiled by a few hypocrites. That's why KJK uses the description Women's Rights instead. Women have no more of a problem of getting on with each other than men do. Unfortunately men do have a trump card to play when it comes to unity. They are united in misogyny.
Done several times in the last couple of weeks because I am afraid for her and the women and men speakers. The American women with hr are amazing brave women but I have to say its a toxic environment in this fight
Posie’s detractors are just jealous that she is making an international impact with her no-compromise message which centres women of all political affiliations. They can’t stand it that she’s getting so much attention and that message is being heard. She’s fearless and encourages women of all backgrounds to speak. I’m team KJK all the way.
Absolutely agree. Sadly ,jealousy of other women tends to be all too common among women. Wish these women would realise how damaging that is to our cause. Apparently the suffragettes didn't get any support from other women . Most women did what they were told by their husbands x
I just donated after watching her video where she is clearly not feeling well - to do what she is doing day after day out there is stressful enough but to be then slated by jealous women on Twitter is disgraceful.
Well said. I was and am outraged and so disappointed by this. ‘Domestic zombies’ was the first insult that was a dagger to my heart, followed by the ‘pound shop’ jibe. So damn childish. We have bigger fish to fry - they are losing political capital behaving like this with such ‘friendly fire.
Anybody can say whatever they like but they both said things about KJK which have been proven to be false and potentially put her at greater risk than she is already. So, yes, they owe her an apology - although if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't accept it. What's your beef, anyway? You've made a nasty allegation about her with no attempt to offer your reasoning for it.
I saw their tweets asserting KJK was encouraging a P/B. Irresponsible. Honest disagreement is not the same as accusing someone of something they have not done. Anyway they worked the damage with the timely public comments. It's not too late to apologise if they want to do the right thing.
Thank you Graham. As an uneducated working class women I love that KJK let’s and encourages any women speak. I have always considered myself a socialist lefty. Not anymore, the (imho) up their arses academics looking down their noses at her stinks. It reminds me of school, is it her media appearances, the fact that she’s attractive, wears makeup or that she’s an unapologetic housewife and mother that they don’t like? because that’s how it looks to me. The smart kids pissed off that as always charisma and looks get the attention. Well who cares why or how we get attention to this fight, the important thing is that we do. They need to get over it and thank her for all she does for women and girls. Thank you Graham and thank you Posie xx I stand with you
“…up their arses academics looking down their noses at her stinks. It reminds me of school…” Myself as well. Immature narcissistic behavior. Patriarchy is a form of group narcissism, or that’s how I’ve come to understand it. The Women’s Movement apparently is no exception from the rule of “civilized” groups, especially as one goes up the social ladder. I hope here in the USA We the People could someday have enough class solidarity to realize that they who insist that they’re our “betters” actually, most unfortunately (for themselves, I’m sure), simply aren’t. In the meantime, I’ll trash only the insanely powerful billionaires that trash the rest of us every day! I totally agree that KJK rocks. ❤️
A very interesting testimony from an eye witness who watched *that* photograph being taken. As if we didn't already know, it's clear that KJK had no idea who that guy was - she just posed for a quick selfie as she was leaving the event.
Posie is out there, making herself ‘unsafe’ time and time again. I saw her unwavering resilience first hand for myself in Bristol. I was angered and shaking with stress after having abuse and unbearable loud music screamed in my ear for hours. I saw how Posie stood and took it. Not only took it, but USED it. And we used it too. She grew 12ft tall in my eyes and I have nothing but admiration for her.
But as you say G, no-one had guns…..
How Posie somehow comes off as the mad, bad dangerous woman for trying to keep herself and other women….well, ALIVE, is beyond weird to me.
I have nothing but respect for KJK. She is smart, down to Earth, and couldn't be better at communicating her message. She is also usually very graceful about the women that are viciously trying to sabotage her. Massive respect to her, and a large amount of side eye to the women trying to tarnish her by association.
I'm a bloke, and I am aware that my contribution to feminism might just be as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit.
The attacks on Posie are a combination of laughable and distressing to me.
She is displaying more fortitude than anyone I can think of (outside Iran and Afghanistan).
I'm genuinely concerned that a TRA lunatic will physically attack her. It puts the 'I don't feel safe' brigade into even sharper focus. Her family must be at their wits end.
I'll relax when she has returned back to the UK safely.
But what a woman!
I feel totally like that - I always worry when she is in the US but even more so this time.
Good is indivisible. It hurts me to see men feel so unwelcome in what is essentially a human rights struggle. A struggle to end a patriarchy that diminishes everyone. A struggle that will benefit all of us. Good is indivisible. Real true feminism is good for women, children, and men. What’s good for women is good for men is good for children. It’s good for girls and boys, teen girls and teen boys, young women and young men. Good for all of us. Good is indivisible.
Well said. This point is so often lost as it really isn't about man hating, which many seem to think it is. Ridiculous stereotyped gender roles hurt us all, so genderology is that writ large.
I admit that as a gay man who was always supportive of feminists, I’m starting to lose patience with some of the radfems in the movement:
-They ask where the men are when TRAs attack them at demonstrations, but I've seen many men turned away (myself included) when they say they want to participate in a feminist demonstration, with the same variation of "this is a space for women, we don't need men to protect us".
-On several occasions I have seen the same women ask "where have the gay men been these last few years?" only to see them mocking men with crude homophobia, jokes about AIDS, telling us to stop complaining because gender ideology only affects our saunas (no, it doesn't), that we hate women like all men, blaming us for surrogacy (none of the GC gays I know have used women for surrogacy), etc.
-they violently attack male detransitioners when they want to talk about the role feminism may have played in their view of masculinity
-they stab KJK and other women in the back for reasons unknown.
And then they complain that they have been alone in this fight for years and are exhausted! No shit, Sherlock.
Thank God most feminists aren't like this, but I don't see how they can hope to win this movement if they keep pushing potential allies away with this nonsense.
Huge thanks to you and also for detailing why you think how you think and what you think! And your nuance. Now that is something I can work with. What has led to further ennui for me is how this unfolded over the past week or two and tracking back what happened is being obscured. I once had my ear bent about Sufragettes vs Suffragists and all this is reminiscent.
I also like that we can discuss here based on what we write and depending on our screen name it's sometimes hard to tell if we are women, men, LGB or TQIA+.
The UK has imported some strains of US 'Antifa' type thinking, then people here are unaware of what that means in practice in the US. We have our own Antifa flavours but they are different. The guns thing does make it different. The histories make it different. The Constitution makes it different.
Having had a shufty I can see there are photos of KJK in the US with Proud Boys (and/or other affiliated type of off-shoots), but then it's tricky as there are other images circulating with Nazi flags, other peed off people, then things where it's hard to work out the source and quotes taken out of context. All smushed up as being 'those who are wrong'. Then the outright lies. There's a meme of Helen Joyce with 'quotes' about disabled and genocide. It's a huge stretch to claim Helen is advocating what some are inferring. Some are linking the Hearts of Oak presence with or without KJK's 'permission' at the recent event in Brighton which had plenty of footage.
It reminded me of the Deplorables thing. My heart sank at that point, and I wondered who was advising the Democrats that insulting the voting public would encourage them to vote for them. It did the exact opposite. And we're still at that point. Midterms is a febrile time. There are things at stake.
We are in a very dangerous and messy place where they are many pissed off people who feel disenfranchised (some have guns), who take their values and view of their nation and country very seriously. Then they are being ignored, feel ignored and told they are fascist. This 'pick a side' thing is terrifying. What a choice - which side to run from or to? Men in masks with knives and guns or men in big hats with...knives and guns. Men and women need to work together. And be realistic and pragmatic.
I think it takes some in the UK who are unfamilar with guns a while to realise that some people with guns are highly law abiding and I thought it would be obvious why (they are used to them). Not everyone with a gun is a freak or a terrorist. I have sometimes felt very safe, and oddly safer around those with guns who are trained to think and behave calmly around them.
I'm not sure how any of that would lead people to think I was Right wing, Left wing or neither and if they hurl something at me, they lose ground and credibility.
I wonder how this will pan out again, and if KJK, JCJ and JB can address the claims made. I will check KJK's channel as I suspect she will have already, or will address this directly.
You're right and personally, I'm pleased to see more and more men joining the demonstrations. If both men and women push back against the trans menace, we're more likely to be listened to rather than be dismissed as cranky women.
KJK has really brought this fight to the fore and this is what we should focus on. I don't always agree with her but in the fight against TRAs, she's been great. Let's not concern ourselves with her other views, they are not relevant to us right now.
Complete bs. Your points/dashes.
Point 1 - “Where are all the men we expect to come rescue us” says no feminist ever.
Point 2 - References same mythological women that are expecting rescue from men AND attributes mocking homophobia and gaslighting to said creatures. (Gay men DO exploit women through surrogacy - your personal friend group isn’t relevant.).
Point 3 - Feminism is about centering WOMEN’S interests and abolishing gender stereotypes. Yes, I would expect that they would be rather unpersuaded by the line of thinking that blames feminists for the delusional thinking and rigid adherence to gender stereotypes found in TIMs. Not to mention the huge role that porn plays in turbocharging their ideology and practices. Feminists are certainly to blame for our porn-saturated culture too. I really can’t understand why women aren’t more generous to de-TIMs. We must do better.
Point 4 - Maybe one day feminists can become the fair-minded peace keepers that men have demonstrated themselves to be. #dobetterladies
Point 5 - and there it is. We’re the problem. There is a whole world of men who would gladly take up this fight, but their scruples prevent them from working alongside non-perfect people AND we hurt their feelings.
JFC what a load of bollocks.
Point 1: I’ve heard women who say they are feminists say that, I’ve seen them write it. Or are they the wrong kind of feminists?
Point 2: I’ve seen that too. Are you saying I’m a liar? Regarding surrogacy: yes, some women seem to blame gay men when most of the surrogacies are for straight couples, but somehow they are not attacking the women who do it. Again, some women.
Point 3: did you listen to males detransitioners? Not all of them were porn addicts and have said they have issues with how masculinity is perceived today. I’m not saying they are right, but I think they raise some interesting questions.
Point 4: that’s not what I’m saying. Nice DARVO.
POINT 5: that’s not what I’m saying. A lot of men are helping already, like me. So either you can’t read, or you reply in bad faith.
“What a load of bollocks”: yes, we can agree you write a lot of bollocks.
You specifically call out radfeminists, and I’m quite sure I know many more than you. They do not wander around asking “where are the men?” They don’t.
You may be interested in the interesting questions of TIMs who are detransitioning, but many women are not when these interesting questions begin with the premise that feminism has anything whatsoever with the mental delusions, sexual kinks, and predatory behavior of TIMs. I would recommend that they look for more a more receptive audience than radical feminists.
I can read just fine. Your final point in the post was that women are self-defeating, have run the men off with their complaining about surrogacy, their hostility to being assigned any sort of role in the rise of the TIM, and their backstabbing of other women. You conclude ‘no shit sherlock’, as if women’s behavior justifies the state of the movement and men’s absence. That was exactly your point and I faithfully recounted it.
A harsh response to a fairly reasonable post.
I so agree with you!
Yesss! It isn't about men-hating at all though I do think that some feminists have been clear enough on that. Look at KJK, I feel she does a great job setting femalism apart. More and more men are turning up to events, she lets them speak (occasionally before women, though only if needs be). She values their contribution. She understands that many of them are dads of kids in the cult. I suppose what is happening to children does broaden this specific campaign but still - men's voices are welcome! I love it!
No of course feminism isn't about that but sadly it is definitely about man-hating, woman-hating, sneering and hating full stop for some who call themselves all sorts of things - this is part of how incels gained so much ground, they had the impression they were hated, or didn't feel celebrated as others' rights were being made prominent, this fed in to their 'nobody loves me' wail, so they go and slaughter people to 'get them back'.
Like what Tellus Quislet wrote above. It's why waves of feminism are so important to see in context. You get some acting like and assuming all gay men hate all women, all lesbians hate all men. I found it the opposite - that this is actually bringing men and women together, left and right, gay, straight and bisexual and even uniting those in constituent parts of the UK. And those men who identify as trans, but say very openly that they are men.
It's really sad that we have to state this all, but we do. Then actual hate is dressed up as inclusion.
We get really weird statements like 'all women now want to kill babies' (usually from slightly unhinged men). And 'you want women's rights and equality, so you want all babies murdered'. Huh? There's a lot of conflating.
Yeah I get you. I need to brush up on the waves of feminism. I'm not all that familiar with it and as a result, I'm a bit naive. I think that's because the only time it has ever sparked a real interest for me is when KJK came along. Of course the fight is very real (and extends to children) but aside from that, it's the first time I feel a sense of belonging to it. Before then I always felt too unintelligent (versus the academic types), or too exclusionary (versus intersectional feminists). I really believe KJK's message is on point. It annoys me that women who support her are treated as cult followers. No, it's because we resonate so much with the message!
Only so you can identify which bits are which so you can feel more confident in talking, engaging, debating and holding or ceding your ground where you need. Bullying anyone into a position is just that, bullying. The fact that women who 'do feminism' are snarling about picking other women off is bizarre to watch.
Please, never feel 'too unintelligent'. That makes me want to weep. It's the Goldilocks view of life that others tell us we're never quite good enough to be in their club and none of us live in a fairytale. Intersectionality now seems like a regressive, point-scoring football wallchart of goodness.
Some are reacting with real glee that the overprivileged in London are losing their arts funding which smells of stirring up political division. We have centres of excellence all over the UK, but all lot of this 'rebalancing' seems driven by spite and revenge.
I believe KJK is on point too. I like nice food, but that doesn't mean I'm in the cult of nice food. I'm also a fan of not going hungry, but I'm not in the anti-hunger cult. The need to believe in something (anything, whatever) is never something I would have thought could be driving so much but it's a good explanation for a lot of this.
I got grief on FB ages ago because I qualified my comment by writing that I'm not a feminist. I was told that I obviously don't want equal pay for women, etc. The assumption that what you write implies a lot of other things (as if humans were mind readers) is tiresome.
I don't call myself a feminist because I've never read any Germaine Greer or Betty Friedan (though I truly respect them) but I've no interest in the likes of Camille Pagliari or Naomi Wolf, and I'm repulsed by feminists who've espoused queer theory.
Women, of whatever philosophy should still stick together and the more men friends, gay or straight, join us, the better. I personally also welcome transsexual women (post op) who stand up for us (notably Debbie Hayton). I know several women on this site have had personal problems over this and that's fair enough, but transsexuals are not transgender and if they want to distance themselves from the transgender bullshit, this makes it harder for TRAs to attack back, so it can help us too.
Yeah I agree, we need to have each other's backs! 😌
Men have to centre the needs of women and children as KJK does This is what's required of men. Not the F word but the actions. Ladies first.
KJ is always getting attacked by people on the "same side". She was called a pound shop Marine Le Pen I believe. Absolutely disgraceful and unfounded. It stinks of snobbery and jealousy of the massive impact she has made. Yet KJ always says she will stand alongside those women in this fight no matter what they've said about her. She is the adult with one aim...to beat this trans movement. Phil Marlowe
That was particularly disgusting that Le Pen thing. Again based on NOTHING.
To be honest I've always been sceptical when accusations like that are made against people. Whenever I've heard so and so is a fascist I've tried to find out all I can about and by them. Without fail you'll find no proof of fascism etc. The number done on you Graham is an example of these smear tactics. Phil Marlowe
Yeah that's why I can't stand by when I see it done to others.
I agree, this comparison was utterly crass. I travelled 150 miles to vote against Le Pen earlier this year (I'm French) but I have nothing but admiration for KJK
KJK is not on the side of any feminists. She has made that very clear
I have not heard her say that. What I have heard her say is that she is not a feminist, also the only "side" I have heard her say she is on is that of women and children. She doesn't need me, a bloke defending her, please just listen to her and let what she says speak for her.
I have listened, thank you. And what she says comes across loud and clear. She is a business woman.
What’s wrong with using her business skills? Graham is using his writing skills? Proud of both of them- wish I had them myself
Oh dear don’t you like women to use their skills? How is she supposed to spread her billboard message or fund her work? You expect her not only to do the risky groundwork but also self fund?
Speaking of business, how's the 5th column troll business going?
Well, not quite as bad as "Pound Shop Le Pen" but the same sentiment. Underlining the point made by Graham Linehan.
There is nothing pound shop about Posie.
Selliing your book at a conference is being a business woman too, whether it's got a feminist change the world message in or not. Likely theres a middle man or woman, that's all. Agent/publisher. (middleman/middle class) Ditto selling a journal. It's all business. KJK is a brilliant business woman. She's selling the message and funding herself and her campaigning at the same time. Great way to earn a living as well. She's got great products with a great message.
Some just go in for the priestly patreon begging bowl. Some do product and begging. Some campaign by dipping in their own pocket. What's your point. I prefer the business model. Take your choice.
How is she making a business of this when the money from merch and donations goes back into the campaign?
it's fine to make money from your work and ideas. It's a business model. It's not a dirty business model. The form and substance of KJK's business is/are married up perfectly. Elegant!
Even if she was making something it would be ok. I hope she is. Some people I have worked with over the years, on above average wages, don’t work that hard. Posie looks like one of life’s grafters to me
She is on every woman side and she keeps saying she admires the work of prominent radical feminists have done, and she would still work
With them despite their smears. You don't listen to her YouTube much do you Panda!
CEP is trolling
i can't stand that trolling word. You need a devil's advocate. I welcome so called trolls. Aren't they just people with opposing opinions. Excuse piety:)
or starting a conversation
She is not in my side. She is undermining feminism and attacking anyone who dares to disagree with her. Yes, I watch her Shopping Channel. The way she has been attacking other women is absolutely horrendous.
"The way she has been attacking other women is absolutely horrendous."?? You're just trolling now. Or maybe you are just here to prove Graham's point?
Shopping channel? When it comes to fighting GI she means business. The Iconic dictionary definition shirt is famous world wide, Copied by all. It works. I wore mine once and someone on the fence targeted me for a long gender conversation. She's no control freak. At SFW events she enables every woman to speak for herself.
You are lying, she never attacks any woman, she is really gracious towards them considering they are absolutely vile about her.
Which women has she attacked? I’ve watched, I do believe, every one of her videos. Can you name one and what she’s said? I find her courageous.
I know Graham I was replying to another person on this thread who claims it is she who attacks other women and is only a ‘business woman’.
Graham, go back through the thread Reena is replying to Cross Eyed Panda who is trolling a few of us. Phil
She does not undermine feminism or attack anyone. Please give us an example of her attacking a feminist.
Scaring up a little biz for your channel are ye, by snapping at the heels of one o the big girls--- good luck with that--- !
Who does she attack?
She is on the side of women and children, which puts her on the same side as some of us who still call ourselves feminists - those of us whose feminism is and always has been about women's liberation and not male entitlement to redefine what we are.
She sees what some sectors of " feminism " has done to women !!👎🤬😭
Feminism alienates me. I don't get it. It's too snooty. It's femalism for me, all the way. I stand with ordinary women who see me as equals.
If anyone ever looks down on you, uses deliberately obscure or impenetrable language and you get that gut instinct they are trying to appear superior, then you have every right to feel that. We are always allowed to ask questions, and if we don't get a point someone has made, we are allowed to ask again. That doesn't mean we are stupid.
I speak as a subject matter expert, who frequently gets patronised and doubt myself. We are allowed to have knowledge and expertise, but not to use that to bash others over the head. We lose credibility in doing so. What we all know should be used to help others.
Women can take back feminism from those gatekeepers who tell any woman it's not for them as they are 'thick fecks'.
Yes, that's a reference to Julie Bindel who must be struggling to walk after shooting herself, all of us, all academics and big 'F' feminism in the foot repeatedly again for some reason. She had a brilliant, righteous win against Nottingham City Council for deplatforming her earlier in the year and I was cheering that. Now this.
I have worked with some hugely unpleasant people and had to smile through crap because there is a wider goal.
People are asking JCJ and JB to change tack, stop the attacks and JCJ was Tweeting back #LetWomenSpeak. To use our freedom to speak to bitch and undermine other women is unhelpful to say the least.
Thank you, ThoughSheBeButLittle 😊
I feel like the aim is to convolute ideas so that ordinary people like me don't get it, so they get to keep it in their hands. A monopoly on the debate, I suppose. I watched a debate with JB once on YT, all about prostitution and I struggled to follow her meaning! Pure elitism. Perhaps it's one I need to re-watch but it shouldn't be so difficult! Her approach is certainly no call to action.
JB claims she's all for working class women. Her prison work is amazing but what about politically active working class women, or women not in the academic elite? Is this 'saviour' mentality? I'm the divine one, I'll fix it. Only my apostles can help.
I too, was cheering her win with Nottingham Council. I still support her now in many ways, though I won't ever defend comments like "thick feck". Like you say, there is a wider goal.
All respect to the people like KS, HJ and GL who will openly support everyone in the fight, and who refuse to denounce anyone unfairly.
Same here. Even got the FEMALIST t shirt 👏👍❤️
I bought some stickers from her store emblazoned with "Femalist". That I believe is her viewpoint as it is mine.
The term Feminist is frankly a turn off for many people, it's a political stance and we've no time for political purity. Exclusional imo.
KJK fearlessly 'Stands on the Wall', she engages with ordinary women who don't necessarily have time for the political.
That's how you build an army, not by box ticking educational qualifications or having read the right kind of books.
It's 'boots on the ground' time with everyone incl. husbands and fathers contributing whatever they can.
I saw some incredible data and graphs on who and how they voted in recent and past elections. Overlooking the 'not interested in politics' or put off by politics/politicians at your peril and that it's women's votes that often swing elections but are often overlooked for some reason ;-)
If I remember it was clearly women who brought the Tories to power last time. I think that's why they are being advised to steer a very careful line over all this. And the basics of what women are. I also seem to recall Labour have just squandered an enormous poll lead in England despite the absolute shitshow of recent weeks (months/years...).
100% correct. You'd think Politicians would pay more attention to the Woman vote but Keir Starmer and some of the Labour handmaidens seem determined to ignore us along with our mob here in Scotland who have just passed the 1st Stage of GRR Act - Self ID.
There has been at least four polls showing support at less than 30% of the population and still they push on.
We now know exactly where we stand and I'll never vote for theses arseholes again.
ps. I have come to the conclusion Starmer does not want to win the next election. Labour can't fix the shitshow, reckon he wants the Tories to fully 'own it. Alienating 51% of the voting public can only be deliberate.
The SNP has overwhelming support in Scotland, doesn't it? And where it doesn't, I suppose it's "better the devil you know" for lots of people. They are so established. It really requires a mutiny!
Interesting point about Starmer throwing the election. He has absolutely no backbone so wouldn't it surprise me. Imagine getting paid to take a SEEMINGLY (not actually) more moral standpoint. Ideal in lots of ways.
KJK says that she gave up on the word 'feminist' after seeing what handmaidens many of them are in this battle, and after being slandered and abused by some who call themselves feminists. I don't blame her; it's been very disheartening for me to see. But I am still a feminist. I won't let anyone re-define it for me.
If "feminists" can't define the word "woman" then they are something else entirely.
KJK has a YT platform of over 60,000 subscribers and she is sharing this large platform with every woman who takes the mic at an SFW gathering. My Miami friend Alex spoke passionately at the latest Speakers Corner outside Sidhbh Gallagher's clinic. The vid has already had 8,000 views. So my friend, and the other women, get a space to reach a much wider audience.. Thanks to KJK. Kellie Jay is really enabling women.
She's on the side of women. I seem to have read somewhere that Maria Forstater was not a feminist either.
Posie is a human rights legend. What a contribution.
Women's Rights legend
indeed but also her service to children, and also her service to anyone who wants to reject traditional gender roles and live their best life.
and also her services to women who can't be doing with being raised up on a platform
We've all enjoyed so many unforgettable Posie moments in the last 5 years of this fight. Every step of the way, Posie has brought new allies into this fight, and in doing so she has always displayed an incredibly positive and generous spirit - her ideas and courage have spear-headed this movement's momentum. Because of Posie's willingness to be 'the face' of GC women, especially on her many TV appearances, she ensured that our campaigning reached a much bigger and broader audience than anyone else has managed in this fight - we should all feel so glad to have Posie on our side and by our side - she is not perfect - nobody is - but she's inspiring, relentless and 'all-in' for women and children. Much love to her. If anyone wants to chip in here with a Posie memory, please do - I'll start: Her brilliant 'I Love JK' poster campaign at Edinburgh Station.
I’ve been to several of her events and I was surprised by how little she actually spoke at some of them. She genuinely wants to provide an opportunity for all women to speak and to network. Even when they say things that people don’t agree with, she asks everyone to be courteous and listen or move away to talk. Above all, she has brought this debate into the public sphere for people like me (who didn’t study feminist theory/history and don’t have the time or will to do so). I think she’s amazing and inspiring, and because of her I no longer use the term “transwoman” or any of their nonsense language!
Kicking Himbia Willoughbys and Baby Shipmans arse all over a tv studio .
And who could ever forget Kate Smurthwaite's tantrum on Dan Wootton's 'The Clash' when going head-to-head with our redoubtable Kellie! Pure Gold!
Oh the tantrum was brilliant!!!!
Omg, I saw that! It was unbelievable.
Brilliant moments!
Come on, join in! Another one: Kellie-Jay pool-side at the NCAA Championships to Lia Thomas: 'It's a man' and to a disgruntled TRA fan, 'I'm not a vet but I know what a dog is!'
The James Max interview:
I didn't know whether to throw my laptop out of the window, or jump out of it myself! The ignorance was STARTLING! Kellie-Jay was amazing though. Legend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJfPqcD8RKM&ab_channel=Kellie-JayKeen
I was hoping someone would mention this one! He made such an utter show of himself! So cringe!
I'd have interrupted the interview to fire him, live!
Can you tell us more about that, or should I just search on Youtube for it?
Hi Jayne, Watch the YouTube clip - you'll have a ball - it's only 14 minutes and Kelly J is magnificent!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJfPqcD8RKM&ab_channel=Kellie-JayKeen
Thank you! I've watched it now. It was very good. KJK was great!
I’m worried about her. She’s extremely brave. She doesn’t sit in her Ivory tower writing clever articles. She’s on the front line being spat at. And as you say...they have guns. I’m praying for her and the brave women around her. If being a feminist means slagging up KJK, then I’m no feminist. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Women who slag up other women are not worthy of that label. I’ve come off Twitter because of the vitriol from some very well known feminists. I respect their work, but can’t stand their bitching.
Wasn’t it Madeleine Albright who said there should be a special place in Hell for women who don’t help each other? I think Kellie Jay is great - straightforward, courageous, clear headed - and always wonderfully glamorous. My three adult daughters are enthusiasts too. We all chip in when we can.
Any woman trashing Kelly-Jay is no feminist. Rather like Nicola Sturgeon who, when criticised by J K Rowling for her drive for self-id, had the audacity to say that she was the “real feminist”. Aye right, Nicola.
The word feminist got soiled by a few hypocrites. That's why KJK uses the description Women's Rights instead. Women have no more of a problem of getting on with each other than men do. Unfortunately men do have a trump card to play when it comes to unity. They are united in misogyny.
Done several times in the last couple of weeks because I am afraid for her and the women and men speakers. The American women with hr are amazing brave women but I have to say its a toxic environment in this fight
Posie’s detractors are just jealous that she is making an international impact with her no-compromise message which centres women of all political affiliations. They can’t stand it that she’s getting so much attention and that message is being heard. She’s fearless and encourages women of all backgrounds to speak. I’m team KJK all the way.
Absolutely agree. Sadly ,jealousy of other women tends to be all too common among women. Wish these women would realise how damaging that is to our cause. Apparently the suffragettes didn't get any support from other women . Most women did what they were told by their husbands x
Posie is epically intelligent and fearless. No wonder she's number one on the gender goons hit list.
Donate @ Standing for Women. She needs security and it’s expensive.
Did that last week and will continue to support her as when we can.
I just donated after watching her video where she is clearly not feeling well - to do what she is doing day after day out there is stressful enough but to be then slated by jealous women on Twitter is disgraceful.
Done 👍
Well said. I was and am outraged and so disappointed by this. ‘Domestic zombies’ was the first insult that was a dagger to my heart, followed by the ‘pound shop’ jibe. So damn childish. We have bigger fish to fry - they are losing political capital behaving like this with such ‘friendly fire.
I tweeted a request for an apology from JCJ and JB. If the detractors got off their high horses they'd be showing a good example.
You do know that neither JCJ nor JB said either of those things?
And that feminists are allowed to say things you disagree with.
Anybody can say whatever they like but they both said things about KJK which have been proven to be false and potentially put her at greater risk than she is already. So, yes, they owe her an apology - although if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't accept it. What's your beef, anyway? You've made a nasty allegation about her with no attempt to offer your reasoning for it.
I saw their tweets asserting KJK was encouraging a P/B. Irresponsible. Honest disagreement is not the same as accusing someone of something they have not done. Anyway they worked the damage with the timely public comments. It's not too late to apologise if they want to do the right thing.
Stupid high school nastiness. They need to grow up.
Women who use insults like that against other women aren't feminists in my book.
Anyone who knows Kellie-Jay knows how ridiculous those claims are. She centers women and children in her politics, its as simple as that.
KJK is brave and speaks clearly to a mainstream audience. She should be supported as a real asset to our movement.
Thank you Graham. As an uneducated working class women I love that KJK let’s and encourages any women speak. I have always considered myself a socialist lefty. Not anymore, the (imho) up their arses academics looking down their noses at her stinks. It reminds me of school, is it her media appearances, the fact that she’s attractive, wears makeup or that she’s an unapologetic housewife and mother that they don’t like? because that’s how it looks to me. The smart kids pissed off that as always charisma and looks get the attention. Well who cares why or how we get attention to this fight, the important thing is that we do. They need to get over it and thank her for all she does for women and girls. Thank you Graham and thank you Posie xx I stand with you
“…up their arses academics looking down their noses at her stinks. It reminds me of school…” Myself as well. Immature narcissistic behavior. Patriarchy is a form of group narcissism, or that’s how I’ve come to understand it. The Women’s Movement apparently is no exception from the rule of “civilized” groups, especially as one goes up the social ladder. I hope here in the USA We the People could someday have enough class solidarity to realize that they who insist that they’re our “betters” actually, most unfortunately (for themselves, I’m sure), simply aren’t. In the meantime, I’ll trash only the insanely powerful billionaires that trash the rest of us every day! I totally agree that KJK rocks. ❤️
A very interesting testimony from an eye witness who watched *that* photograph being taken. As if we didn't already know, it's clear that KJK had no idea who that guy was - she just posed for a quick selfie as she was leaving the event.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1E1sqkSyac
Thank you, JL. that was helpful.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Posie is out there, making herself ‘unsafe’ time and time again. I saw her unwavering resilience first hand for myself in Bristol. I was angered and shaking with stress after having abuse and unbearable loud music screamed in my ear for hours. I saw how Posie stood and took it. Not only took it, but USED it. And we used it too. She grew 12ft tall in my eyes and I have nothing but admiration for her.
But as you say G, no-one had guns…..
How Posie somehow comes off as the mad, bad dangerous woman for trying to keep herself and other women….well, ALIVE, is beyond weird to me.
I also agree that I just want her safely home.