"If you're middle-class chances are you've at least one trans-identified relative" 😆
Glinner, you have nailed it. This is a top-down middle-class phenomenon. The reason it's finally getting some long overdue pushback is because it's seeped into working-class discourse.
It seems to be highly prevalent in populations with parents who validate everything their kid says or does (i.e. privileged ones). These kids never hear the word "no" so everything they say or do is special and validated. I think it's a kind of Munchhausen by proxy - if your kid is special, you are by definition "special" and so now you have a badge as a "parent of special kid". It must be hard for kids to feel special unless they have something their parents can hold up as a badge these days.
Yup. Loads of them where I live. I was bullied off the neighbourhood social media group recently because my partner and I dared to say something about the incessant din some neighbourhood kids were making. The full on, volume 11 screaming. I had a migraine which I had had for a week. They dismissed my migraine, tried to shame me and all of them treated me like I was against kids playing outside. I kept saying "of course kids can play outside "can we just have less incessant screaming" but about 8 of them kept treating me as if I was the most unreasonable person in the world and a child hater (kinda reminiscent of trying to debate the women's and children's safe spaces with TRAs). These are the sorts of people who think it is super wonderful if their kids have anything "wrong" with them or are trans as it makes them all that bit more special. Then they all sit around validating each other.
Too many middle-class parents are trying to be friends to their children, not what the real world knows as parents. My children know that, once I've got to "No", they don't have a way out. Negotiation is finished.
We saw Rachel Fairburn last weekend... talking about working class mums... sorting shit out. And there should be more of them. The lad in the ad... needs to be told 'Stop showing off' for sures.
Ok, please be careful not to tar all parents with the same brush. I can tell you from personal experience that being the parents of a child with special needs is very, very far from a bed of roses. In fact the battle to get your child’s needs recognised and provision made (eg appropriate school) is exhausting and breaks some families.
Of course it's not all parents. The parents I am referring to are the ones who want the badge of having a "special kid" (not special needs) - like the one who transed their little boy because he wanted to wear a hair turban like his mum. Like someone I actually know whose kid has never heard the word "no" and has no boundaries and so is very badly behaved - they have decided it is dyslexia and so use this as an excuse for his bad behaviour. I think parents like this actually make lives harder for parents who have genuine special needs kids, as you say, getting it recognised and getting provision made.
No worries :) Those parents are toxic enablers to their kids (abusers really), and make it so much harder for parents that genuinely need help. Like AGP men who class themselves as trans making it so much harder for trans folk with genuine dysmorphia. It also makes me angry that so much money is being wasted (from a finite pool in the UK) on hormone treatments and surgery for kids that don't really need it (let alone what these poor kids go through) when it could be used for something more effective (like counselling) or on something else instead. Anyway, off topic...but it's not all parents as you say, but those that are responsible really should be held accountable for the damage they are doing.
I was thinking similarly to you. Parenting ACTUAL special-needs children is a taxing endeavor, especially without adequate support from family and community. I’m in the U.S.A. so I’ve seen it plenty myself (no universal health insurance), and have offered respite care to overwhelmed parents/caregivers, as I’ve previously volunteered in hospice care. I’m a GenX woman without children for good reason. I’m a survivor of child rape (while mandated reporter “child experts” looked on) who thinks we’re basically being administered by antisocial people/institutions. Something happens in white-collared groups of people with advanced degrees that produces irrational contagions like this. In my experience, “social” workers are quite antisocial, and promote their own industry’s status before the health and welfare of children. Personality disordered people are running the show! How else will/can it be stopped except by raising public awareness and putting up actual resistance to this religion? Creating false “special” children needs to stop.
Sorry to read of your awful experience. I hope you have the support you need - you sound a strong woman. Thank you for offering respite to overwhelmed parents and children - such an important factor in helping the family to survive/thrive.
We have horrible end-of-life care, too. That’s what interested me in volunteering for respite hospice care. I’m the youngest of seven children, and the eldest was lesbian. Thank god for her, or I could’ve ended up a doormat for men. Women in general seem to understand self-in-relation better than the XY variety of our species. We exist within an interdependent web of life and relationships, NOT in an isolated bubble. I ❤️LESBIANS!
Familiar with the "privacy" issues? I ended up realizing the privacy was all about keeping the Department of Health and Human Services from being under watchful radar and nothing about protecting children. As a teenager told me, "Everyone in town knew I had been molested." So, in one month in Maine, we had four little children murdered in their homes. Some suggestions have been made, but I fear they are the usual band-aids and will change nothing.
I don't know how it is where you live, but in the U.S. parents of special needs children are held up as saints (which must be very tiring). I find this totally unrealistic; caring for anyone who is totally or nearly totally dependent is extremely draining. My husband did total home care for a while, and it became clear that the parents who were supposed to be saints had a lot of problems dealing with the situations they found themselves in.
Yes. My son has severe learning difficulties and autism. We are certainly not saints! It has been very hard. You have to fight for what you need/are entitled to. Lockdown was bad. But I have to say, now he is an adult it is easier to get the services, and we receive excellent support (UK). Children’s services are a nightmare, including the mental health service (CAMHS) - eg 2+ years wait for an autism assessment.
Reading the letter the woman wrote who wanted to foster-parent in the U.K. brought up a lot of stuff for me. I came to see that the only way to successfully do so in Maine at least was to either LIE or FIGHT. I knew two excellent foster mothers. One just lied and told the social workers whatever they wanted to hear; she had great success taking in kids no one else wanted who were violent and unmanageable. Another fought and fought and fought for her foster sons. A major reason I didn't return to foster parenting was that I don't like lying and fighting while trying to parent a severely damaged child is just too ridiculous. I am glad that it's easier to get services for your son now than when he was a child, though that makes no sense. ?????
It is partly to do with the different funding models. Also as a young adult with LD ppl like my son stand out from the majority users of adult social care. Finally there is a dedicated LD team for adults which has everyone you need (psychology, psychiatry, nursing. Physio, OT, outreach support etc) which is much more disjointed for under 18s. And the fact that CAMHS is appalling.
Yeah, I am often thinking the same thing. The whole TRA thing is so obviously kids who need to feel special I find it very hard to see that anyone could actually ever fall for that.
It is typical early teen behaviour. A desire to rebel / be different while at the same time a need to fit in with the latest trend (currently being ‘non-binary’ as promoted by so many celebs).
Strangely enough, I had also reached the same conclusion this week about the more comfortably off, 'middle-class' families having family members who were linked to the trans world. Having local networks which extend into both 'working' and 'middle' class, it is only the latter who seem to engaging with the Gender Cool Aid indoctrination.
It's also a thing that kids labelled 'privileged' realise at some point that adopting a trans/genderspecial status is a get-out-of-privilege-free card. Especially for kids who are boringly heterosexual or bi. Turning trans changes you overnight from hated apex privilege (cishet, middle class, white...) to an über oppressed genderspecial, applauded for your bravery.
Add to these that social outlier kids who say they're trans suddenly get to be cool, lauded, deserving of 'allies' who will stand up or them. A potent array of potential benefits.
There is some truth to that. It IS a middle- und upper middle class phenomenon. From all we can say "being trans" just isn't a thing with blue collar people.
In the U.S., we put babies in plastic boxes in the hospital and tell parents to put them in rooms by themselves when they go home. Some well-meaning U.S. researchers went to Uganda to "help" mothers and found that the children there hardly set foot on the ground until they were about three, they were always carried by someone. And guess what? The toddlers' linguistic and social skills were far more highly developed than American babies. When I was foster parenting, someone recommended a Christian child-raising book about boundaries. It was easy to sift out the religious aspect and the author's recommendations were excellent, among them allowing children age-appropriate decision-making and freedom to fail.
Absolutely. Three “NB” out of the twelve nieces and nephews I have under 20. Two weeks of them gay or bi girls, one of those also Aspergers ish, one Aspergers ish boy too young to declare for a team to us. No PBs or CSHs or surgeries thank god but I live in fear, and fear for my own kids being influenced into it. “Be kind” is fine until you’re worried the children in your family are going to mutilate themselves on the NHS
I see that happening up here in Red California (Sutter County), a lot of young girls identifying as NB as if that's going to magically remove them from their sex based oppression.
Not all middle class people! Sorry, I just couldn't resist. But it definitely, definitely is. No is an important word in my household, and children need boundaries (obviously sensible ones) - they actually make them feel more secure.
Err? I am middle class and am horrified by what my trans identified daughter is doing to herself as is everyone else in her close family and we are pushing back in whatever way we can. We are all too aware of the consequences and are suffering greatly. Please don't bring class war into it. It is tragic whenever and to whomever it happens.
I fear for my children in a general sense, but this is your lived reality. I think the hardest part about having adult children is when they are making decisions that you are sure aren’t good for them. As one parent to another, I just wanted you to know how sorry I was to read your post, and I hope for the best for you and your daughter.
"Not all women — or men — who think like Millar have the financial means, personal fortitude or institutional support to withstand the prosecution process. There are only so many crowdfunders. Graham Linehan can only thump out so many blogs and articles. There's only one Joanna Cherry and she can't be in every courtroom."
but was happy enough to chuck women under the bus with the usual misogynistic slur.
Margaret, if you want your book to survive, you're going to need to support the retention of the word woman. How about not shooting down those of us trying to do just that?
Yeah she was, peddling myths because clownfish and the usual nonsense. She didn't seem to realise that erasing women would mean that her own books would have to be erased too. Sigh!
Agreed, much of female-to-male transition does seem to be about women unable to face the horror and indignity of being a woman in this political and social landscape, and so 'transing' to males in the hope of finding more authority and respect there. But they are doomed to fail, then becoming neither fish nor fowl. It's awful and my heart goes out to them. I am angry at Atwood, because she has been so cruel to JKR and, as you say, all the victims of this insanity. But I also have to consider that she's an elderly woman and perhaps not as well able to see the whole picture as we might hope from someone who wrote The Handmaid's Tale.
By the way, for those who haven't seen the breaking story about the government consultation on 'conversion therapy' (that the Times has claimed could 'outlaw' Mermaids), I've done a quick link to it on my free Substack, and to the page where you can submit your comments to the government proposal.
It closes 10th December and we all know THOUSANDS of TRAs will definitely respond. So let's get there and make our voices heard too.
I agree with your discomfort. It is dangerous illusion to believe one can individually opt out of patriarchy and all the s..t that comes with it, not least medically. That being said: Women have a much greater chance of "passing" outwardly. I. e., in some cases one would mistake them for small men. Men almost never "pass" without massive cosmectic surgery.
Completely agree with this. The clinicians MUST address the psychological aspects before anything else. Of the three young ‘trans’ people i personally know, (two ftm, one mtf), two are autistic and one had suffered trauma in their family. Puberty was horrendous on top of this. And I am afraid RuPaul has a lot to answer for.
Drag queens have always made it clear that they are pretending to be women for performative femininity. I never heard of one claiming to be an actual woman. Drag is art, not life.
How about that Ashlee person at the rally against Netflix (Chappelle)? He looks just like a drag queen but has found he can get loads more attention saying he's a woman.
This has been a roller coaster week. Marion Millar news great. Possible new legislation on conversion therapy looks promising. Kathleen Stock resignation sad and disheartening and Margaret Atwood just desperately disappointing. You need good blood pressure control to survive this era.
Kathleen Stock's resignation will have personal implications for her, it came about as a consequence of seemingly relentless harassment and threat. That must have been a nightmare, and, unsurprising, she was no longer prepared or able to endure it.
TRA's see it as a victory for them, but I don't think it is. Stock apparently had the support of the university's leadership, they didn't push her out, she was driven out by bullying extremist activists. This further highlights the kind of people they are and the tactics they use. Other than in a short term sense, I don't see how that's going to be to their advantage.
Trans/gender politics and activism is increasingly ceasing to be the niche issue it was. People are becoming aware of the potential connotations and are expressing more concern and opposition. That's something I think is likely to escalate, and as it does activists will lose their grip, it's already happening. People can see that this is a group that wants *everything* on its terms alone.
But why don't the police arrest these TRAs? Harrassment and intimidation is a criminal offence. If they get away with it then what will stop them doing it over and over again? The police have been Stonewalled and Priti patel needs to do something about it.
I did not that Kathleen Stock had resigned, that is really bad! It is horrible how she was not supported by colleagues, who clearly were to welded onto LGBTQ and Stonewall without knowing or getting informed about the whole past-marriage act role of those two organitions, who were always undermine women including lesbians!
As a midwife and menopausal woman I endorse the discussion of the importance of hormone balance for vaginal, vulval and pelvic health. I would quibble with the phrase "vaginal atrophy" being muddled with other symptoms of the menopause/testosterone use. Vaginal, uterine and vulval "atrophy" all relate to different organs so to use the sweeping "vaginal atrophy" to cover everything is not quite right. Also I don't really like that word as it makes it sound as if it shrivels up and dies. It is possibly more accurate to say these organs will shrink - this is healthy and appropriate in a menopausal woman though it can - not necessarily but it can - involve the bladder which can increase urinary sensitivity and infections, and obviously shrinking and loss of lubrication in many menopausal women (not all) means their sex life is affected. The itching and dermatitis bit I found confusing. I think she is talking about lichens sclerosis which is more common after menopause but by no means everyone gets that. The overall point about not recklessly plunging a young woman into these potential health issues is very important. However, I do think we need to be careful to be accurate and also not to imply everyone has the same effects, as otherwise we will fall into all sorts of traps. Oh, and for menopausal women we are lucky that with some persistence and imagination there are appropriate treatments and sexual strategies that can mean a happy and healthy sex life if we wish to pursue it!
Thank you. There is also the question of teenagers agreeing to (or even demanding) irreversible removal of body parts when they are unable to fully grasp the implications of this for their adult life, not having actually undergone the brain changes/maturity brought about by pubertal hormones.
Thank you for pointing out the details! It's really important to adress those issues.
As a I'm veterinarian I have solid basic training in endocrinology and as a woman in the middle of my 40's I had my share of minor issues like whetehr or not to use oral contraceptives, ovarian cysts, myomas. Since I also am a reserach scientist, it was obvious for me to inform myself on those issues by going through the scientific literature. This intensified recently when a close friend (my age) had to be treated for breast cancer and is now facing side effects off the post-surgical Tamoxifen treatement (selective estrogen antagonist). Based on this, my main take home message is that the endocrinology of the female reproductive tract is way more complex (and complicated) than biology textbooks suggest, especially once you start removing any hormon-producing organ or start manipulating hormone balance by medication.
Unfortunately there seems to be a common misconception that bodies and hormons work like machines, with simple pathways and predictable outcomes. This is not the case, individual variation is extremely high. Plus in women, the same drug (Tamoxifen) acts differently on different tissues by the same receptors, and effects in some tissues are completely opposite pre- and post menopause. This also means that once your ovaries and uterus are gone, it's anything but trivial to do appropriate hormone substitution therapy.
Taking this in account, it absolutely puzzles me how anybody in the medical profession can in good conscience promote the idea that puberty blockers and cross sex hormones have no or only some predictable side effects. There are no solid scientific studies, long-term effects have not been adressed, and there is absolutely no reason that individual variation would be lower in adolescents than older women. The data isn't there. Even worse, there doesn't even seem to be willingness by those professionals to implement long-term follow up as part of retrospective clinical trials.
As a developmental biologist, I couldn't agree more. There is no real comprehension of the complex integration of multiple hormonal systems. Steroid hormones like oestrogen also affect insulin signalling, for example. Many of these hormones in turn affect the activity of thousands of different genes. Just - argh! You're so right about the lack of studies into this - or even follow up. And the cross-sex hormones prescribed could never hope to match the complex interplay actually occurring in the opposite sex - to say nothing of the fact that your body is not supposed to be exposed to cross-sex hormones. I won't even start with so-called puberty blockers. I fear there's going to be a lot of hormone-damaged people in years to come. It's not trivial messing with your endocrinology.
Yes, the role, actions and importance of hormones seem STILL to be very poorly understood, even in the medical world / in textbooks. Similarly the lymphatic system. I suspect it is partly because these are systems which have a far greater (negative) effect on women’s health rather than men’s health.
I had a complete surgical hysterectomy at age 42 and was given HRT. Unfortunately it was years before I got a decent practitioner and she took me off oral meds and onto estrogen cream. But I didn't need it any longer after I started proper thyroid treatment (she also diagnosed my glaring hypothyroidism). So very interesting that I had/have no menopausal symptoms with no ovaries, and none of those other unpleasantries you write about!
What I have seen in my children is that they think turning yourself into the opposite gender is a simple surgery, like a nose job, one and done, and some hormone treatments. And why wouldn't they- that is the lie that is being peddled. I read Kiera Bell's account last night in preparation to writing a letter to my school district. Re-reading her account, which specifically mentions "atrophied genitals" broke my heart. In the case of male to female transitioners, I really don't think the years will have to spend dilating their neovagina, and how uncomfortable and intrusive this will be, even registers. I did not even know about that until I saw Jazz Jenning's mum discussing it. https://twitter.com/donovancleckley/status/1350197277630095361?lang=en
I'm really sorry to hear this and don't want to fall into another kind of trap myself as a health professional, over-promising. Perhaps my comment was a bit too Pollyannish regarding the serious effects of the menopause for some and I'm sorry if that is the case for you and anyone else. My point was mainly about not conflating "vaginal atrophy" with other symptoms that may or may not happen. I agree with you that there is a lack of expertise and understanding of the menopause and associated conditions - probably down to our misogynistic health system. I also agree that it is a travesty to plunge young healthy women into a similar or even more extreme condition without their full understanding of the potential life-altering - perhaps life-ruining - consequences. But from my perspective, menopause itself is not a disease. It has certain symptoms that often can be helped, if not completely alleviated, with appropriate treatments. I don't think it is false promise or waffle to say this, even though there is a lot of misunderstanding of the menopause and society has a very long way to go to understand this transition period. I learned some of what I know about how to have a sex life after menopause from an older woman friend - much more helpful than any Dr I have spoken to.
Think you may be correct - seems plausible that shes been transed by a family member. Plus its Tranada and would appear that biological facts are now as prehistoric as woolly mammoths.
I think you are being Kind to Aunt Margaret - I think she's totally fucking selfish and thinls she'll be in with the kids and keep selling her books but selling out women. She reminds me of the knobheads on the 'Cake' episode of Brass Eye.
It’s grim reading. I wish the scales would fall from people’s eyes. This ideology brutal and unforgiving -in their befuddled brains you’re either 100% in or you want them all dead or maimed or ostracised. There are no shades of grey in their quest. To me that is horrifying, dictatorial, authoritarian and unsustainable. I only hope this blows up and we can unpick and support damaged and distraught individuals. I am in a perpetual state of fury these days.
TT Exulansic channel good on discussing medical side effects. One example she gave was testosterone lowering the voice because of the effect on the vocal chord tissue - the heart valves are made of similar tissue so what happens to them? Common sense tells you adding unnecessary chemicals to a healthy body, mutilating yourself, putting skin where it was never meant to be is going to disrupt everything. In the USA if health insurance wriggles out of paying for all this as I'm sure they would like to these people are going to face medical bills for ever more. It's frightening enough when we've got the NHS. Having lifelong health problems in the USA is terrifying. Some people are deliberately going for jobs with good health cover. Get a job in Starbucks then claim hundreds of thousands off their medical insurance - I can't see that lasting long.
Also I think so many progressives cast the die way back when they assumed trans issues were an outgrowth of the LGB human rights movement. Without doubt there are genuine gender dysphorics whom I have absolute sympathy for. But misogynists, autogynophiles. pedophiles and sexual predator opportunists seem to have co-opted that group too and lead the whole movement into a very sinister dungeon.
It must feel horrendously humiliating to reconsider and back away.
On one side are the barking mad, slavering trans posse and on the other smirky “I told you so” holier than thou mob (us)
I think you might be being a bit too kind toward Atwood, yes she is eighty and likely surrounded by trans allies in the publishing industry, but she is still writing and being published, so hardly a senile, uninformed woman. Although I understand a familial connection will be difficult for her.
Yeah, I'm getting old and I don't buy into this "but she's old" or "but he's old" stuff. How insulting is someone permitted to be because they're "old"? I don't find bad behavior any more acceptable in the old than in the middle-aged or young.
Thank you for this clear exposition of the dangers of cross-sex hormones and the peculiar volte-face executed by Margaret Atwood. Perhaps her publicist is running her Twitter account and she actually has no say over it?
Margaret Atwood was never a feminist. Her Handmaid's Tale is absolutely not a feminist book either. Just read how she regards young women the victims of horrible older women who do the job of nazi concentration camps managers, including making the girls ready for rape by the 'Boss'. I call that woman-hating, just as Snowhite's stepmother is the picture of evil (and of course the dead real mother a saint). That the Boss is a monster is not the centre of the story, it is the traitor/older woman who is the real monster!
Thank you. I’ve moved on — bigger health fish to fry now … But yes it makes me so very sad to see young women removing their breasted because they are in awe yo this ideology.
"If you're middle-class chances are you've at least one trans-identified relative" 😆
Glinner, you have nailed it. This is a top-down middle-class phenomenon. The reason it's finally getting some long overdue pushback is because it's seeped into working-class discourse.
And we don't play that 😎
It seems to be highly prevalent in populations with parents who validate everything their kid says or does (i.e. privileged ones). These kids never hear the word "no" so everything they say or do is special and validated. I think it's a kind of Munchhausen by proxy - if your kid is special, you are by definition "special" and so now you have a badge as a "parent of special kid". It must be hard for kids to feel special unless they have something their parents can hold up as a badge these days.
Yup. The John Lewis ad accidentally demonstrated that perfectly. Special little darlings who are actually little tyrants.
Yup. Loads of them where I live. I was bullied off the neighbourhood social media group recently because my partner and I dared to say something about the incessant din some neighbourhood kids were making. The full on, volume 11 screaming. I had a migraine which I had had for a week. They dismissed my migraine, tried to shame me and all of them treated me like I was against kids playing outside. I kept saying "of course kids can play outside "can we just have less incessant screaming" but about 8 of them kept treating me as if I was the most unreasonable person in the world and a child hater (kinda reminiscent of trying to debate the women's and children's safe spaces with TRAs). These are the sorts of people who think it is super wonderful if their kids have anything "wrong" with them or are trans as it makes them all that bit more special. Then they all sit around validating each other.
Too many middle-class parents are trying to be friends to their children, not what the real world knows as parents. My children know that, once I've got to "No", they don't have a way out. Negotiation is finished.
We saw Rachel Fairburn last weekend... talking about working class mums... sorting shit out. And there should be more of them. The lad in the ad... needs to be told 'Stop showing off' for sures.
Ok, please be careful not to tar all parents with the same brush. I can tell you from personal experience that being the parents of a child with special needs is very, very far from a bed of roses. In fact the battle to get your child’s needs recognised and provision made (eg appropriate school) is exhausting and breaks some families.
Of course it's not all parents. The parents I am referring to are the ones who want the badge of having a "special kid" (not special needs) - like the one who transed their little boy because he wanted to wear a hair turban like his mum. Like someone I actually know whose kid has never heard the word "no" and has no boundaries and so is very badly behaved - they have decided it is dyslexia and so use this as an excuse for his bad behaviour. I think parents like this actually make lives harder for parents who have genuine special needs kids, as you say, getting it recognised and getting provision made.
Yes I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to accuse you of anything. I agree such parent enablers are toxic to their children.
No worries :) Those parents are toxic enablers to their kids (abusers really), and make it so much harder for parents that genuinely need help. Like AGP men who class themselves as trans making it so much harder for trans folk with genuine dysmorphia. It also makes me angry that so much money is being wasted (from a finite pool in the UK) on hormone treatments and surgery for kids that don't really need it (let alone what these poor kids go through) when it could be used for something more effective (like counselling) or on something else instead. Anyway, off topic...but it's not all parents as you say, but those that are responsible really should be held accountable for the damage they are doing.
I was thinking similarly to you. Parenting ACTUAL special-needs children is a taxing endeavor, especially without adequate support from family and community. I’m in the U.S.A. so I’ve seen it plenty myself (no universal health insurance), and have offered respite care to overwhelmed parents/caregivers, as I’ve previously volunteered in hospice care. I’m a GenX woman without children for good reason. I’m a survivor of child rape (while mandated reporter “child experts” looked on) who thinks we’re basically being administered by antisocial people/institutions. Something happens in white-collared groups of people with advanced degrees that produces irrational contagions like this. In my experience, “social” workers are quite antisocial, and promote their own industry’s status before the health and welfare of children. Personality disordered people are running the show! How else will/can it be stopped except by raising public awareness and putting up actual resistance to this religion? Creating false “special” children needs to stop.
Sorry to read of your awful experience. I hope you have the support you need - you sound a strong woman. Thank you for offering respite to overwhelmed parents and children - such an important factor in helping the family to survive/thrive.
We have horrible end-of-life care, too. That’s what interested me in volunteering for respite hospice care. I’m the youngest of seven children, and the eldest was lesbian. Thank god for her, or I could’ve ended up a doormat for men. Women in general seem to understand self-in-relation better than the XY variety of our species. We exist within an interdependent web of life and relationships, NOT in an isolated bubble. I ❤️LESBIANS!
I don’t know many lesbians but I love them too xxx Solidarity xxx
PS I too am one of 7 - 4 girls 3 boys… we girls stick together, my brothers, not so much.
Familiar with the "privacy" issues? I ended up realizing the privacy was all about keeping the Department of Health and Human Services from being under watchful radar and nothing about protecting children. As a teenager told me, "Everyone in town knew I had been molested." So, in one month in Maine, we had four little children murdered in their homes. Some suggestions have been made, but I fear they are the usual band-aids and will change nothing.
Gosh 😢
I don't know how it is where you live, but in the U.S. parents of special needs children are held up as saints (which must be very tiring). I find this totally unrealistic; caring for anyone who is totally or nearly totally dependent is extremely draining. My husband did total home care for a while, and it became clear that the parents who were supposed to be saints had a lot of problems dealing with the situations they found themselves in.
Yes. My son has severe learning difficulties and autism. We are certainly not saints! It has been very hard. You have to fight for what you need/are entitled to. Lockdown was bad. But I have to say, now he is an adult it is easier to get the services, and we receive excellent support (UK). Children’s services are a nightmare, including the mental health service (CAMHS) - eg 2+ years wait for an autism assessment.
Reading the letter the woman wrote who wanted to foster-parent in the U.K. brought up a lot of stuff for me. I came to see that the only way to successfully do so in Maine at least was to either LIE or FIGHT. I knew two excellent foster mothers. One just lied and told the social workers whatever they wanted to hear; she had great success taking in kids no one else wanted who were violent and unmanageable. Another fought and fought and fought for her foster sons. A major reason I didn't return to foster parenting was that I don't like lying and fighting while trying to parent a severely damaged child is just too ridiculous. I am glad that it's easier to get services for your son now than when he was a child, though that makes no sense. ?????
It is partly to do with the different funding models. Also as a young adult with LD ppl like my son stand out from the majority users of adult social care. Finally there is a dedicated LD team for adults which has everyone you need (psychology, psychiatry, nursing. Physio, OT, outreach support etc) which is much more disjointed for under 18s. And the fact that CAMHS is appalling.
Yeah, I am often thinking the same thing. The whole TRA thing is so obviously kids who need to feel special I find it very hard to see that anyone could actually ever fall for that.
It is typical early teen behaviour. A desire to rebel / be different while at the same time a need to fit in with the latest trend (currently being ‘non-binary’ as promoted by so many celebs).
Strangely enough, I had also reached the same conclusion this week about the more comfortably off, 'middle-class' families having family members who were linked to the trans world. Having local networks which extend into both 'working' and 'middle' class, it is only the latter who seem to engaging with the Gender Cool Aid indoctrination.
It's also a thing that kids labelled 'privileged' realise at some point that adopting a trans/genderspecial status is a get-out-of-privilege-free card. Especially for kids who are boringly heterosexual or bi. Turning trans changes you overnight from hated apex privilege (cishet, middle class, white...) to an über oppressed genderspecial, applauded for your bravery.
Add to these that social outlier kids who say they're trans suddenly get to be cool, lauded, deserving of 'allies' who will stand up or them. A potent array of potential benefits.
stand up *for them.
There is some truth to that. It IS a middle- und upper middle class phenomenon. From all we can say "being trans" just isn't a thing with blue collar people.
I know one.
Social media is accessible to all young people, it’s not a question of income.
That doesn't mean that they are none. But it seems to be significantly less prevalent with lower-income households.
That's a separate issue. I'm referring to adult "allies".
Oh, I get you. Yes ‘ally ship’ I would agree is quite middle-class / attention-seeking (look me I am so right-on / kind).
Great article in The Atlantic. Some parents would rather their parents kids be diagnosed as special needs rather than just be average.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/how-to-land-your-kid-in-therapy/308555/
This resonated with me:
today, Twenge says, “we treat our kids like adults when they’re children, and we infantilize them when they’re 18 years old.”
And the tyranny of choice thing. Too many choices and kids are paralysed and make wrong/unstable decisions. Frostgender, anyone?
In the U.S., we put babies in plastic boxes in the hospital and tell parents to put them in rooms by themselves when they go home. Some well-meaning U.S. researchers went to Uganda to "help" mothers and found that the children there hardly set foot on the ground until they were about three, they were always carried by someone. And guess what? The toddlers' linguistic and social skills were far more highly developed than American babies. When I was foster parenting, someone recommended a Christian child-raising book about boundaries. It was easy to sift out the religious aspect and the author's recommendations were excellent, among them allowing children age-appropriate decision-making and freedom to fail.
Who has the time worry too much about that stuff when you are just trying to get through each day.
Absolutely. Three “NB” out of the twelve nieces and nephews I have under 20. Two weeks of them gay or bi girls, one of those also Aspergers ish, one Aspergers ish boy too young to declare for a team to us. No PBs or CSHs or surgeries thank god but I live in fear, and fear for my own kids being influenced into it. “Be kind” is fine until you’re worried the children in your family are going to mutilate themselves on the NHS
I see that happening up here in Red California (Sutter County), a lot of young girls identifying as NB as if that's going to magically remove them from their sex based oppression.
(“Two”, not “two weeks”.)
Not all middle class people! Sorry, I just couldn't resist. But it definitely, definitely is. No is an important word in my household, and children need boundaries (obviously sensible ones) - they actually make them feel more secure.
Err? I am middle class and am horrified by what my trans identified daughter is doing to herself as is everyone else in her close family and we are pushing back in whatever way we can. We are all too aware of the consequences and are suffering greatly. Please don't bring class war into it. It is tragic whenever and to whomever it happens.
I fear for my children in a general sense, but this is your lived reality. I think the hardest part about having adult children is when they are making decisions that you are sure aren’t good for them. As one parent to another, I just wanted you to know how sorry I was to read your post, and I hope for the best for you and your daughter.
Thank you Lydia. Your kind wishes are appreciated. The parent bashing on top of what we are going through is hard to take!
So?
You're obviously an exception. To say "don't bring class into it" fundamentally misunderstands the problem.
a little more empathy would be appropriate here
"Not all women — or men — who think like Millar have the financial means, personal fortitude or institutional support to withstand the prosecution process. There are only so many crowdfunders. Graham Linehan can only thump out so many blogs and articles. There's only one Joanna Cherry and she can't be in every courtroom."
Spectator
I know! I couldn't believe it!
That is such a great quote!
I read it as 'the persecution process'.
Yes, I keep doing that. It’s involuntary too. Correct though isn’t it
Yup, horribly correct.
She complained (rightly) about her book being "cancelled"
https://www.cambridgetoday.ca/local-news/books-deemed-harmful-to-staff-and-students-are-being-removed-from-regions-public-school-libraries-4551859
but was happy enough to chuck women under the bus with the usual misogynistic slur.
Margaret, if you want your book to survive, you're going to need to support the retention of the word woman. How about not shooting down those of us trying to do just that?
I don't know Atwood's back story so I'm a bit puzzled.
I thought she was always on 'their' side? What goes around comes around.
Yeah she was, peddling myths because clownfish and the usual nonsense. She didn't seem to realise that erasing women would mean that her own books would have to be erased too. Sigh!
Why do people on that side of the debate keep bringing up clownfish, last time I checked, I am a mammal.
Science education is so abysmal maybe they don't know there is a difference between mammals and fish.
Good point well made!
I honestly thought they’d been mocked out of it. But no...
There’s also the virgin-birth birds which have been reported in today 😀
That would be handy if you can’t the right bloke ;o)
I don’t think she realised that no amount of abasement & kow-towing would ever be enough.
Agreed, much of female-to-male transition does seem to be about women unable to face the horror and indignity of being a woman in this political and social landscape, and so 'transing' to males in the hope of finding more authority and respect there. But they are doomed to fail, then becoming neither fish nor fowl. It's awful and my heart goes out to them. I am angry at Atwood, because she has been so cruel to JKR and, as you say, all the victims of this insanity. But I also have to consider that she's an elderly woman and perhaps not as well able to see the whole picture as we might hope from someone who wrote The Handmaid's Tale.
By the way, for those who haven't seen the breaking story about the government consultation on 'conversion therapy' (that the Times has claimed could 'outlaw' Mermaids), I've done a quick link to it on my free Substack, and to the page where you can submit your comments to the government proposal.
It closes 10th December and we all know THOUSANDS of TRAs will definitely respond. So let's get there and make our voices heard too.
Also here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-progresses-ban-on-lgbt-conversion-therapy
Just did that, thank you.
I agree with your discomfort. It is dangerous illusion to believe one can individually opt out of patriarchy and all the s..t that comes with it, not least medically. That being said: Women have a much greater chance of "passing" outwardly. I. e., in some cases one would mistake them for small men. Men almost never "pass" without massive cosmectic surgery.
Thank you - I hadn’t realised there was a consultation.
Completely agree with this. The clinicians MUST address the psychological aspects before anything else. Of the three young ‘trans’ people i personally know, (two ftm, one mtf), two are autistic and one had suffered trauma in their family. Puberty was horrendous on top of this. And I am afraid RuPaul has a lot to answer for.
Drag queens have always made it clear that they are pretending to be women for performative femininity. I never heard of one claiming to be an actual woman. Drag is art, not life.
It is part of the whole trans cult, though.
How about that Ashlee person at the rally against Netflix (Chappelle)? He looks just like a drag queen but has found he can get loads more attention saying he's a woman.
This has been a roller coaster week. Marion Millar news great. Possible new legislation on conversion therapy looks promising. Kathleen Stock resignation sad and disheartening and Margaret Atwood just desperately disappointing. You need good blood pressure control to survive this era.
Kathleen Stock's resignation will have personal implications for her, it came about as a consequence of seemingly relentless harassment and threat. That must have been a nightmare, and, unsurprising, she was no longer prepared or able to endure it.
TRA's see it as a victory for them, but I don't think it is. Stock apparently had the support of the university's leadership, they didn't push her out, she was driven out by bullying extremist activists. This further highlights the kind of people they are and the tactics they use. Other than in a short term sense, I don't see how that's going to be to their advantage.
Trans/gender politics and activism is increasingly ceasing to be the niche issue it was. People are becoming aware of the potential connotations and are expressing more concern and opposition. That's something I think is likely to escalate, and as it does activists will lose their grip, it's already happening. People can see that this is a group that wants *everything* on its terms alone.
But why don't the police arrest these TRAs? Harrassment and intimidation is a criminal offence. If they get away with it then what will stop them doing it over and over again? The police have been Stonewalled and Priti patel needs to do something about it.
I did not that Kathleen Stock had resigned, that is really bad! It is horrible how she was not supported by colleagues, who clearly were to welded onto LGBTQ and Stonewall without knowing or getting informed about the whole past-marriage act role of those two organitions, who were always undermine women including lesbians!
That is really sad news
As a midwife and menopausal woman I endorse the discussion of the importance of hormone balance for vaginal, vulval and pelvic health. I would quibble with the phrase "vaginal atrophy" being muddled with other symptoms of the menopause/testosterone use. Vaginal, uterine and vulval "atrophy" all relate to different organs so to use the sweeping "vaginal atrophy" to cover everything is not quite right. Also I don't really like that word as it makes it sound as if it shrivels up and dies. It is possibly more accurate to say these organs will shrink - this is healthy and appropriate in a menopausal woman though it can - not necessarily but it can - involve the bladder which can increase urinary sensitivity and infections, and obviously shrinking and loss of lubrication in many menopausal women (not all) means their sex life is affected. The itching and dermatitis bit I found confusing. I think she is talking about lichens sclerosis which is more common after menopause but by no means everyone gets that. The overall point about not recklessly plunging a young woman into these potential health issues is very important. However, I do think we need to be careful to be accurate and also not to imply everyone has the same effects, as otherwise we will fall into all sorts of traps. Oh, and for menopausal women we are lucky that with some persistence and imagination there are appropriate treatments and sexual strategies that can mean a happy and healthy sex life if we wish to pursue it!
Thank you. There is also the question of teenagers agreeing to (or even demanding) irreversible removal of body parts when they are unable to fully grasp the implications of this for their adult life, not having actually undergone the brain changes/maturity brought about by pubertal hormones.
Thank you for pointing out the details! It's really important to adress those issues.
As a I'm veterinarian I have solid basic training in endocrinology and as a woman in the middle of my 40's I had my share of minor issues like whetehr or not to use oral contraceptives, ovarian cysts, myomas. Since I also am a reserach scientist, it was obvious for me to inform myself on those issues by going through the scientific literature. This intensified recently when a close friend (my age) had to be treated for breast cancer and is now facing side effects off the post-surgical Tamoxifen treatement (selective estrogen antagonist). Based on this, my main take home message is that the endocrinology of the female reproductive tract is way more complex (and complicated) than biology textbooks suggest, especially once you start removing any hormon-producing organ or start manipulating hormone balance by medication.
Unfortunately there seems to be a common misconception that bodies and hormons work like machines, with simple pathways and predictable outcomes. This is not the case, individual variation is extremely high. Plus in women, the same drug (Tamoxifen) acts differently on different tissues by the same receptors, and effects in some tissues are completely opposite pre- and post menopause. This also means that once your ovaries and uterus are gone, it's anything but trivial to do appropriate hormone substitution therapy.
Taking this in account, it absolutely puzzles me how anybody in the medical profession can in good conscience promote the idea that puberty blockers and cross sex hormones have no or only some predictable side effects. There are no solid scientific studies, long-term effects have not been adressed, and there is absolutely no reason that individual variation would be lower in adolescents than older women. The data isn't there. Even worse, there doesn't even seem to be willingness by those professionals to implement long-term follow up as part of retrospective clinical trials.
As a developmental biologist, I couldn't agree more. There is no real comprehension of the complex integration of multiple hormonal systems. Steroid hormones like oestrogen also affect insulin signalling, for example. Many of these hormones in turn affect the activity of thousands of different genes. Just - argh! You're so right about the lack of studies into this - or even follow up. And the cross-sex hormones prescribed could never hope to match the complex interplay actually occurring in the opposite sex - to say nothing of the fact that your body is not supposed to be exposed to cross-sex hormones. I won't even start with so-called puberty blockers. I fear there's going to be a lot of hormone-damaged people in years to come. It's not trivial messing with your endocrinology.
Yes, the role, actions and importance of hormones seem STILL to be very poorly understood, even in the medical world / in textbooks. Similarly the lymphatic system. I suspect it is partly because these are systems which have a far greater (negative) effect on women’s health rather than men’s health.
Excellent helpful points, thank you!
I had a complete surgical hysterectomy at age 42 and was given HRT. Unfortunately it was years before I got a decent practitioner and she took me off oral meds and onto estrogen cream. But I didn't need it any longer after I started proper thyroid treatment (she also diagnosed my glaring hypothyroidism). So very interesting that I had/have no menopausal symptoms with no ovaries, and none of those other unpleasantries you write about!
What I have seen in my children is that they think turning yourself into the opposite gender is a simple surgery, like a nose job, one and done, and some hormone treatments. And why wouldn't they- that is the lie that is being peddled. I read Kiera Bell's account last night in preparation to writing a letter to my school district. Re-reading her account, which specifically mentions "atrophied genitals" broke my heart. In the case of male to female transitioners, I really don't think the years will have to spend dilating their neovagina, and how uncomfortable and intrusive this will be, even registers. I did not even know about that until I saw Jazz Jenning's mum discussing it. https://twitter.com/donovancleckley/status/1350197277630095361?lang=en
And once again we're back to abysmal biological and sex education.
I'm really sorry to hear this and don't want to fall into another kind of trap myself as a health professional, over-promising. Perhaps my comment was a bit too Pollyannish regarding the serious effects of the menopause for some and I'm sorry if that is the case for you and anyone else. My point was mainly about not conflating "vaginal atrophy" with other symptoms that may or may not happen. I agree with you that there is a lack of expertise and understanding of the menopause and associated conditions - probably down to our misogynistic health system. I also agree that it is a travesty to plunge young healthy women into a similar or even more extreme condition without their full understanding of the potential life-altering - perhaps life-ruining - consequences. But from my perspective, menopause itself is not a disease. It has certain symptoms that often can be helped, if not completely alleviated, with appropriate treatments. I don't think it is false promise or waffle to say this, even though there is a lot of misunderstanding of the menopause and society has a very long way to go to understand this transition period. I learned some of what I know about how to have a sex life after menopause from an older woman friend - much more helpful than any Dr I have spoken to.
Think you may be correct - seems plausible that shes been transed by a family member. Plus its Tranada and would appear that biological facts are now as prehistoric as woolly mammoths.
My tweet to Margaret: You are the Hanmaiden of all Handmaids. Under the trans eye.
I think you are being Kind to Aunt Margaret - I think she's totally fucking selfish and thinls she'll be in with the kids and keep selling her books but selling out women. She reminds me of the knobheads on the 'Cake' episode of Brass Eye.
If she carries on in this ridiculous way she'll be Aunt Lydia soon. Insight into that literary creation certainly.
It’s grim reading. I wish the scales would fall from people’s eyes. This ideology brutal and unforgiving -in their befuddled brains you’re either 100% in or you want them all dead or maimed or ostracised. There are no shades of grey in their quest. To me that is horrifying, dictatorial, authoritarian and unsustainable. I only hope this blows up and we can unpick and support damaged and distraught individuals. I am in a perpetual state of fury these days.
TT Exulansic channel good on discussing medical side effects. One example she gave was testosterone lowering the voice because of the effect on the vocal chord tissue - the heart valves are made of similar tissue so what happens to them? Common sense tells you adding unnecessary chemicals to a healthy body, mutilating yourself, putting skin where it was never meant to be is going to disrupt everything. In the USA if health insurance wriggles out of paying for all this as I'm sure they would like to these people are going to face medical bills for ever more. It's frightening enough when we've got the NHS. Having lifelong health problems in the USA is terrifying. Some people are deliberately going for jobs with good health cover. Get a job in Starbucks then claim hundreds of thousands off their medical insurance - I can't see that lasting long.
Also I think so many progressives cast the die way back when they assumed trans issues were an outgrowth of the LGB human rights movement. Without doubt there are genuine gender dysphorics whom I have absolute sympathy for. But misogynists, autogynophiles. pedophiles and sexual predator opportunists seem to have co-opted that group too and lead the whole movement into a very sinister dungeon.
It must feel horrendously humiliating to reconsider and back away.
On one side are the barking mad, slavering trans posse and on the other smirky “I told you so” holier than thou mob (us)
I try not to be holier than thou 😇
I think you might be being a bit too kind toward Atwood, yes she is eighty and likely surrounded by trans allies in the publishing industry, but she is still writing and being published, so hardly a senile, uninformed woman. Although I understand a familial connection will be difficult for her.
Yeah, I'm getting old and I don't buy into this "but she's old" or "but he's old" stuff. How insulting is someone permitted to be because they're "old"? I don't find bad behavior any more acceptable in the old than in the middle-aged or young.
Exactly she can research the subject and not rely on others opinions.
Except she won't and that's why we're in the pretty pickle we're in today.
Thank you for this clear exposition of the dangers of cross-sex hormones and the peculiar volte-face executed by Margaret Atwood. Perhaps her publicist is running her Twitter account and she actually has no say over it?
Margaret Atwood was never a feminist. Her Handmaid's Tale is absolutely not a feminist book either. Just read how she regards young women the victims of horrible older women who do the job of nazi concentration camps managers, including making the girls ready for rape by the 'Boss'. I call that woman-hating, just as Snowhite's stepmother is the picture of evil (and of course the dead real mother a saint). That the Boss is a monster is not the centre of the story, it is the traitor/older woman who is the real monster!
As a post-menopausal woman, I can’t imagine going through the last 10 years prematurely 😞
Same!!! Also removal of breast :(
Oh I’m sorry 😞
Thank you. I’ve moved on — bigger health fish to fry now … But yes it makes me so very sad to see young women removing their breasted because they are in awe yo this ideology.