It's crazy to think he is talking about life changing proceedures for minors.
If he were a car salesman and he took you for a test drive and his answer to questions like, what's that knocking? why is this car pulling to the left? Was "what's that about?" You would not feel safe to buy a car from him.
He's Paul's 'Brilliant' Fast Show character and Caroline Aherne's check out girl. Nuclear fission or fusion, what's that about? Blu-tack and longshore drift, what's that about? The ventral part of the diencephalon, what's that about? Say big words look clever.
"What's that about?" I don't know, Aidan, maybe if you had some scientific curiousity or basic medical ethics you'd actually bother to find out. Maybe it's because autistic people often suffer sensory difficulties which are exarcerbated at puberty and they mistake it for gender dysphoria. Or maybe the tendency to see things as black/white and liking to categorise means they try and pigeonhole themselves in a box, and if they don't fit the sex stereotypes (which they often don't) then they think they're trans...or any of a number of other reasons.
I'm a member of a Facebook group of late-diagnosed autistic women. We have 100s of women. It's always been open to transwomen (yeh, I know) but there never have been any, because the demographic has trended older - most are in their 40s and above. We got our first one the other week, who is early 20s. Violently coloured hair: check. Head tilt: check. Anime name: check. Autististic plus other issues: check. "She/her" lesbian: check. It made my heart sink. Nobody is doing this young man any favours by pandering to his delusion.
It's so infuriating. In what other area of medicine would you be allowed to "treat" children with experimental drugs with no evidence base behind them? It's usually only allowed for drugs in trials for e.g. cancer where it's a last ditch chance to save a life. Why are you trying to fix a mental health problem with hormones and surgery?
As a developmental biologist, the whole "it's a reversible blocker" thing also just makes me want to scream. No it isn't, you don't know that, and you have no concept of developmental time windows. In the same way that thalidomide caused different severities of birth defects when taken at different stages of pregnancy (i.e. foetal development), a "puberty blocker" taken when puberty is supposed to happen is very different from taking it for precocious puberty, which happens when something has gone wrong. (And even then it's not without problems). It's also not selectively pausing the development of primary and secondary sex characteristics. GnRH agonists are going to affect a whole range of systems. Your body is not a series of plug and play units and your endocrine system is a SYSTEM where all your hormones are basically interacting and feeding back. Giving these drugs to teenagers gives me mental image of one those turtles that gets a plastic ring stuck on its shell: the body doesn't stop growing, it tries to grow around it, and becomes deformed. You're still growing in every other way, but with an entire system effectively disabled, so everything will end up out of kilter to a greater or lesser extent. It's bloody wicked.
By all means, though it's a bit ranty! Thank you for asking. The other thing that concerns me re: blockers, though I have no proof of it, is that if taken too long, then that developmental time window will be missed and puberty will not restart/complete properly, resulting in permanent infertility.
And what other permanent effects on all organs and processes, we can only guess can't we? As we are not evolved to do this surely there must be myriad ways it can disrupt all of it. It always reminds me of that joke along the lines of a doctor telling a patient they have about two months to live and the patient saying ok then I'll have February and August please.
This guys in guardian today as part of the propaganda drive to discredit Cass. One really gets to sense where people’s loyalty lies. I reckon guardian must be having a bit of an internal battle on this. Barnes one week, trigger hand doctor the next.
Absolutely spot on. Also we're trying to understand social skills and situations that don't come naturally to us, and we like to learn and understand new or unfamiliar concepts by categorising things. Whenever I've seen those lists of xenogenders or neogenders or whatever on Twitter or Tumblr, I've thought it was an autistic kid broadly describing different personality traits and preferences and categorising people under each of those.
I remember when I was diagnosed with Asperger's (as it was called then) and thinking, "this is it, this is why I'm an awkward misfit!" I really clung to it as an explanation and almost an excuse for being a weird kid. I can see how kids would do the same with a gender dysphoria diagnosis or a trans identity. But the difference is I wasn't put on drugs or surgery, I just got talking therapy and some classes in body language and communication with other autistic kids, and did things like theatre and improv to practise social skills and reading/showing feelings in a "safe" context separate from my everyday life.
I think that's also why a lot of autistics dissociate or buy into this new identity nonsense: real life sometimes feels like we're playing a role, and getting to choose the role you play takes the pressure off a bit. I know a lot of autists in my old university improv troupe and the LARP and tabletop gaming clubs who got ROGD and ditched me when I asked questions about it, I'm sure that's part of it.
Tony Attwood (autism expert, I got his book after I was diagnosed and it helped a lot) has spoken out about this, as have Tania Marshall and Isla Mac. They've been brilliant on how this affects autistic people.
I am watching him do a presentation now, thank you. No wonder the audience seem to be so engaged and laughing along. He's just said something is a pompous way of saying X but Psychologists and Psychiatrists won’t say that cos people could understand it. More of this please!
Tania Marshall's stuff was what made me seek a diagnosis in my late 30s. Both her and Tony Attwood are very good, I agree. It does scare me how my tomboy self may well have fallen for this if I had been born some years later.
Those are very good points. I think that's a very good observation about autistics trying to categorise personalities and playing roles. Often I've envisaged myself as a different person in certain situations, and extensively in imaginary role-play. Plus I loved reading about all those Myers-Briggs and Jungian typology things when I was younger, though I didn't believe any of them were based in anything scientific. (I mean I love sorting and organising *anything* into "types" - be it my grandmother's amazing spare button box when I was a kid, to organisms as a biologist). I'm sorry your old friends in those role play and acting groups dropped you :(
Gender ideology is so seductive if you're confused and not fitting in. It promises everything will make sense if you put the right label on yourself (and then perform the role): identity, community, an explanation for Why You Are the Way You Are, and being special. If you're introverted and looking for answers on the internet, it must sing out like a siren call.
Christ almighty - talk about the "banality of evil." He's openly admitting that they're messing with something they don't fully understand while also admitting that they know about the horrendous downsides of it, but he's also saying: 'Let's go ahead and do it anyway...' He's literally talking about choosing which kids will be lifelong medical patients, all delivered in rambling, semi-coherent 'word soup.'
So how on earth does the Care Quality Commission operate if they approve this?
I just don't understand how this insanity persists. If you just take a step back and think to yourself: "OK, here is a person who thinks they are the opposite sex and is very distressed that their body says their not, let's give them cross-sex hormones and maybe some invasive cosmetic surgery in order to let them feel more like they are really the opposite sex", even before you get into doing this to *children*, it just sounds bonkers, because it is. How about: "OK, here is a person who thinks they are the opposite sex and is very distressed that their body says they're not. Obviously, they are not the opposite sex and never will be. Clearly, they need therapy to help them accept who they are and address the underlying issues that caused them to think in this pathological manner." I mean, if my best friend suddenly developed a delusion that they were Napoleon, I'd tolerate them prancing around in a silly hat but I'd be urging them to see a psychiatrist, not full out encouraging them to raise an army and invade all of Europe!
Thanks for finding this and sharing Graham. I can’t believe that the CQC has approved this man’s private clinic. With all his ‘I suppposes’ and ‘I guesses’ you can tell that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about while at the same time appearing to know exactly what the implications are for young people of pumping them full of hormones. He blithely says, ‘that’s as far as the child and adolescent service goes’ ie , we then hand them over to adult services for more mutilation and lifelong medical corrections. How can he still be practising with children? Sickening to watch
Absolutely shocking that this man ADMITS many of the side effects of blockers and the experimental nature of the interventions, yet he still seems to think all this is OK?
Is it going to be yet again CQC passing somewhere with flying colours and accredited as good or excellent, and 'safe', then strangely oh no, we found, er lots of abuse, how did that happen, the quality assurance regime we have is fine, that wasn't longstanding ongoing abuse, neglect and a toxic culture of harm that staff and other whistleblowers were bringing to senior management and us...oh no...it suddenly happened...oh it was a contracted out service um er no we weren't asleep at the wheel. Who knew! That would be all of us.
It's rambling nonsense ,and hardly a good advertisement for "sex reassignment." He's actually admitting ( maybe without realising it ) that it's experimental pseudoscience which causes fertility( ie sterility ) problems in children and sets them on the path to lifelong patienthood !! Thanks ,Graham x
It couldn't possibly be that the increase in referrals after 2010 could have anything to do with the invention of the modern smartphones and social media could it.
Like tiny versions of the monoliths from 2001: A Space Odyssey evolving mankind into lunacy.
So we stop puberty blockers and cross sex hormones but allow this private clinic to set up!! A scandal ( yet another one) in plain sight. Mr Kelly needs to be in the dock. Have cross posted.
In all the times I've heard people promote puberty blockers and their alleged ability to allow patients to buy more time to think about what they want, I never hear them talk about how much time it allows. Can someone wait until they're 20 or even 30 to start going through puberty? Are we creating a group of people with children's bodies who are above the age of consent?
Exactly! Worse, the whole "stop them going through the wrong sex puberty." Er, if you give them cross-sex hormones after puberty blockers, they're not going to go through what they could call the "right [i.e.opposite] sex puberty". You'd surely get someone who was sexually immature (plus other problems) with some secondary sex characteristics. Like a man with a micropenis and a bit of fat in the breast region and a high voice? Has anyone got that far? What was the result? ISTR that poor sod Jazz Jennings not having enough tissue for surgery to create his false "vagina". That was entirely predictable.
I've been wondering the same thing - all this fuss about how they must not go through the wrong puberty and then it turns out that for boys at least it turns out to be a disaster when it comes to getting surgery. One of the many contradictions of trans ideology.
Why do I always end by saying to meself, Self, Jesus H. Crazytown we're in now, whenever I listen to these guys--- ? Too sane and boring and responsible, I guess... As goofy as I am, I mean, Fu-uuuck, sex-identified brothers n sisters--- just --- fu-uuuck...
You know what they say about truly being a master of your subject often meaning you can explain - and simply and clearly - to others. I am left reeling, like I was at school with terrible teachers, month after month, trying my hardest to work out WTAF this man is waffling about. Sex-identified bro...what now? Using silly and obfuscatory language in vague and inaccurate ways is frowned upon by those who are actual proper professionals and want to engage and share knowledge for the improvement of society. This man is frightening as Graham says. He is confusing and muddling issues. Apart from the total lies and fabrications that is.
This is awful. My 6 foot 4 nearly 20 year old son is 'non binary'. If I had affirmed him when he came out as trans several years ago he could easily have had his penis amputated by now. The longer he keeps it the better in my opinion. He's a young man, likely with ADHD and autistic traits who is struggling to find his place in the world and vulnerable to those that would harm him, to further their nonsensical batshit crazy ideology. Children should be allowed to be children.
Isn't it. You reminded me of how they gave hormones to girls like me in the Nederlands as we were 'going to be too tall'. I remember someone cutting out an article at the time in the 90s and thanking my stars I wasn't living there or with vile doctors randomly assigning me to the wrong category, and ignoring normal variation. That was experimentation too. I am over 6', kept growing after 16 and am obviously and definitely female. I am guessing that at 6'4 he is rather obviously male. I really wish you both and all the best.
Yes he's very obviously male. I remember reading something years ago about girls having their legs sawed and reattached to stop them being 'too tall'. It's all mutilation in the name of acceptance but is in fact the opposite.
Is it something that the CQC should be made aware of? And is he a medical doctor- should the GMC be alerted? Happy to participate in dobbing him in to both if that would help.
TIGALA, The Independent Guardian ad Litem Agency (TIGALA) was formed in 2014 and operates nationally (in Ireland). The independent Guardian ad Litem Agency was created to achieve and ensure a consistently high level of Practice standards for all Guardians within the agency.
Going by what's written on his slides it's to TIGALA. So, the Killashee Hotel Naas, Co. Kildare, 2nd February 2018, Getting it right - caring for LGBT+ children in care?
I should have called it 'What's That About?'
It's crazy to think he is talking about life changing proceedures for minors.
If he were a car salesman and he took you for a test drive and his answer to questions like, what's that knocking? why is this car pulling to the left? Was "what's that about?" You would not feel safe to buy a car from him.
Like he's managing a project in any old workplace
He's Paul's 'Brilliant' Fast Show character and Caroline Aherne's check out girl. Nuclear fission or fusion, what's that about? Blu-tack and longshore drift, what's that about? The ventral part of the diencephalon, what's that about? Say big words look clever.
"What's that about?" I don't know, Aidan, maybe if you had some scientific curiousity or basic medical ethics you'd actually bother to find out. Maybe it's because autistic people often suffer sensory difficulties which are exarcerbated at puberty and they mistake it for gender dysphoria. Or maybe the tendency to see things as black/white and liking to categorise means they try and pigeonhole themselves in a box, and if they don't fit the sex stereotypes (which they often don't) then they think they're trans...or any of a number of other reasons.
I'm a member of a Facebook group of late-diagnosed autistic women. We have 100s of women. It's always been open to transwomen (yeh, I know) but there never have been any, because the demographic has trended older - most are in their 40s and above. We got our first one the other week, who is early 20s. Violently coloured hair: check. Head tilt: check. Anime name: check. Autististic plus other issues: check. "She/her" lesbian: check. It made my heart sink. Nobody is doing this young man any favours by pandering to his delusion.
It's so infuriating. In what other area of medicine would you be allowed to "treat" children with experimental drugs with no evidence base behind them? It's usually only allowed for drugs in trials for e.g. cancer where it's a last ditch chance to save a life. Why are you trying to fix a mental health problem with hormones and surgery?
As a developmental biologist, the whole "it's a reversible blocker" thing also just makes me want to scream. No it isn't, you don't know that, and you have no concept of developmental time windows. In the same way that thalidomide caused different severities of birth defects when taken at different stages of pregnancy (i.e. foetal development), a "puberty blocker" taken when puberty is supposed to happen is very different from taking it for precocious puberty, which happens when something has gone wrong. (And even then it's not without problems). It's also not selectively pausing the development of primary and secondary sex characteristics. GnRH agonists are going to affect a whole range of systems. Your body is not a series of plug and play units and your endocrine system is a SYSTEM where all your hormones are basically interacting and feeding back. Giving these drugs to teenagers gives me mental image of one those turtles that gets a plastic ring stuck on its shell: the body doesn't stop growing, it tries to grow around it, and becomes deformed. You're still growing in every other way, but with an entire system effectively disabled, so everything will end up out of kilter to a greater or lesser extent. It's bloody wicked.
may I quote part of this on Twitter? The last para?
By all means, though it's a bit ranty! Thank you for asking. The other thing that concerns me re: blockers, though I have no proof of it, is that if taken too long, then that developmental time window will be missed and puberty will not restart/complete properly, resulting in permanent infertility.
And what other permanent effects on all organs and processes, we can only guess can't we? As we are not evolved to do this surely there must be myriad ways it can disrupt all of it. It always reminds me of that joke along the lines of a doctor telling a patient they have about two months to live and the patient saying ok then I'll have February and August please.
Well, exactly. That's a good joke.
This guys in guardian today as part of the propaganda drive to discredit Cass. One really gets to sense where people’s loyalty lies. I reckon guardian must be having a bit of an internal battle on this. Barnes one week, trigger hand doctor the next.
Well said 👏👍
Absolutely spot on. Also we're trying to understand social skills and situations that don't come naturally to us, and we like to learn and understand new or unfamiliar concepts by categorising things. Whenever I've seen those lists of xenogenders or neogenders or whatever on Twitter or Tumblr, I've thought it was an autistic kid broadly describing different personality traits and preferences and categorising people under each of those.
I remember when I was diagnosed with Asperger's (as it was called then) and thinking, "this is it, this is why I'm an awkward misfit!" I really clung to it as an explanation and almost an excuse for being a weird kid. I can see how kids would do the same with a gender dysphoria diagnosis or a trans identity. But the difference is I wasn't put on drugs or surgery, I just got talking therapy and some classes in body language and communication with other autistic kids, and did things like theatre and improv to practise social skills and reading/showing feelings in a "safe" context separate from my everyday life.
I think that's also why a lot of autistics dissociate or buy into this new identity nonsense: real life sometimes feels like we're playing a role, and getting to choose the role you play takes the pressure off a bit. I know a lot of autists in my old university improv troupe and the LARP and tabletop gaming clubs who got ROGD and ditched me when I asked questions about it, I'm sure that's part of it.
Tony Attwood (autism expert, I got his book after I was diagnosed and it helped a lot) has spoken out about this, as have Tania Marshall and Isla Mac. They've been brilliant on how this affects autistic people.
I am watching him do a presentation now, thank you. No wonder the audience seem to be so engaged and laughing along. He's just said something is a pompous way of saying X but Psychologists and Psychiatrists won’t say that cos people could understand it. More of this please!
Tania Marshall's stuff was what made me seek a diagnosis in my late 30s. Both her and Tony Attwood are very good, I agree. It does scare me how my tomboy self may well have fallen for this if I had been born some years later.
Those are very good points. I think that's a very good observation about autistics trying to categorise personalities and playing roles. Often I've envisaged myself as a different person in certain situations, and extensively in imaginary role-play. Plus I loved reading about all those Myers-Briggs and Jungian typology things when I was younger, though I didn't believe any of them were based in anything scientific. (I mean I love sorting and organising *anything* into "types" - be it my grandmother's amazing spare button box when I was a kid, to organisms as a biologist). I'm sorry your old friends in those role play and acting groups dropped you :(
Gender ideology is so seductive if you're confused and not fitting in. It promises everything will make sense if you put the right label on yourself (and then perform the role): identity, community, an explanation for Why You Are the Way You Are, and being special. If you're introverted and looking for answers on the internet, it must sing out like a siren call.
Christ almighty - talk about the "banality of evil." He's openly admitting that they're messing with something they don't fully understand while also admitting that they know about the horrendous downsides of it, but he's also saying: 'Let's go ahead and do it anyway...' He's literally talking about choosing which kids will be lifelong medical patients, all delivered in rambling, semi-coherent 'word soup.'
So how on earth does the Care Quality Commission operate if they approve this?
That's what I'd like to know. Perhaps it's as randomly as assigning sex at birth? Approve some, and not others based on f*** knows what?
Hahaha. Congratulations Mr and Mrs Smith! You've birthed a randomly-assigned quality-assurance rating!
:D
I just don't understand how this insanity persists. If you just take a step back and think to yourself: "OK, here is a person who thinks they are the opposite sex and is very distressed that their body says their not, let's give them cross-sex hormones and maybe some invasive cosmetic surgery in order to let them feel more like they are really the opposite sex", even before you get into doing this to *children*, it just sounds bonkers, because it is. How about: "OK, here is a person who thinks they are the opposite sex and is very distressed that their body says they're not. Obviously, they are not the opposite sex and never will be. Clearly, they need therapy to help them accept who they are and address the underlying issues that caused them to think in this pathological manner." I mean, if my best friend suddenly developed a delusion that they were Napoleon, I'd tolerate them prancing around in a silly hat but I'd be urging them to see a psychiatrist, not full out encouraging them to raise an army and invade all of Europe!
Thanks for finding this and sharing Graham. I can’t believe that the CQC has approved this man’s private clinic. With all his ‘I suppposes’ and ‘I guesses’ you can tell that he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about while at the same time appearing to know exactly what the implications are for young people of pumping them full of hormones. He blithely says, ‘that’s as far as the child and adolescent service goes’ ie , we then hand them over to adult services for more mutilation and lifelong medical corrections. How can he still be practising with children? Sickening to watch
Absolutely shocking that this man ADMITS many of the side effects of blockers and the experimental nature of the interventions, yet he still seems to think all this is OK?
There are loads of good doctors, but there's far too many who have a god complex.
What is the care quality commission thinking? Have they seen this video? Do they even care? Wtf is going on?! 😑
nothing to see here, just experimenting on some children, more children get run over each year, its not a big deal.
Is it going to be yet again CQC passing somewhere with flying colours and accredited as good or excellent, and 'safe', then strangely oh no, we found, er lots of abuse, how did that happen, the quality assurance regime we have is fine, that wasn't longstanding ongoing abuse, neglect and a toxic culture of harm that staff and other whistleblowers were bringing to senior management and us...oh no...it suddenly happened...oh it was a contracted out service um er no we weren't asleep at the wheel. Who knew! That would be all of us.
Don’t care about quality competition
It's rambling nonsense ,and hardly a good advertisement for "sex reassignment." He's actually admitting ( maybe without realising it ) that it's experimental pseudoscience which causes fertility( ie sterility ) problems in children and sets them on the path to lifelong patienthood !! Thanks ,Graham x
how are these fucking arseholes not in prison.
It couldn't possibly be that the increase in referrals after 2010 could have anything to do with the invention of the modern smartphones and social media could it.
Like tiny versions of the monoliths from 2001: A Space Odyssey evolving mankind into lunacy.
Thanks, Graham.
So we stop puberty blockers and cross sex hormones but allow this private clinic to set up!! A scandal ( yet another one) in plain sight. Mr Kelly needs to be in the dock. Have cross posted.
https://dustymasterson.substack.com/p/the-horror-the-horror
Dusty
In all the times I've heard people promote puberty blockers and their alleged ability to allow patients to buy more time to think about what they want, I never hear them talk about how much time it allows. Can someone wait until they're 20 or even 30 to start going through puberty? Are we creating a group of people with children's bodies who are above the age of consent?
Yeah. Exactly that. It’s the paedophiles dream! You only gotta scratch the surface to see how nefarious it all really is.
How very dare you talk sense
Idk how they're supposed to think about things maturely when their brain development is stalled at the same childhood stage too.
Exactly! Worse, the whole "stop them going through the wrong sex puberty." Er, if you give them cross-sex hormones after puberty blockers, they're not going to go through what they could call the "right [i.e.opposite] sex puberty". You'd surely get someone who was sexually immature (plus other problems) with some secondary sex characteristics. Like a man with a micropenis and a bit of fat in the breast region and a high voice? Has anyone got that far? What was the result? ISTR that poor sod Jazz Jennings not having enough tissue for surgery to create his false "vagina". That was entirely predictable.
I've been wondering the same thing - all this fuss about how they must not go through the wrong puberty and then it turns out that for boys at least it turns out to be a disaster when it comes to getting surgery. One of the many contradictions of trans ideology.
Why do I always end by saying to meself, Self, Jesus H. Crazytown we're in now, whenever I listen to these guys--- ? Too sane and boring and responsible, I guess... As goofy as I am, I mean, Fu-uuuck, sex-identified brothers n sisters--- just --- fu-uuuck...
You know what they say about truly being a master of your subject often meaning you can explain - and simply and clearly - to others. I am left reeling, like I was at school with terrible teachers, month after month, trying my hardest to work out WTAF this man is waffling about. Sex-identified bro...what now? Using silly and obfuscatory language in vague and inaccurate ways is frowned upon by those who are actual proper professionals and want to engage and share knowledge for the improvement of society. This man is frightening as Graham says. He is confusing and muddling issues. Apart from the total lies and fabrications that is.
This is awful. My 6 foot 4 nearly 20 year old son is 'non binary'. If I had affirmed him when he came out as trans several years ago he could easily have had his penis amputated by now. The longer he keeps it the better in my opinion. He's a young man, likely with ADHD and autistic traits who is struggling to find his place in the world and vulnerable to those that would harm him, to further their nonsensical batshit crazy ideology. Children should be allowed to be children.
Isn't it. You reminded me of how they gave hormones to girls like me in the Nederlands as we were 'going to be too tall'. I remember someone cutting out an article at the time in the 90s and thanking my stars I wasn't living there or with vile doctors randomly assigning me to the wrong category, and ignoring normal variation. That was experimentation too. I am over 6', kept growing after 16 and am obviously and definitely female. I am guessing that at 6'4 he is rather obviously male. I really wish you both and all the best.
Yes he's very obviously male. I remember reading something years ago about girls having their legs sawed and reattached to stop them being 'too tall'. It's all mutilation in the name of acceptance but is in fact the opposite.
https://www.nytimes.com/1964/12/20/archives/tall-girl-19-undergoes-surgery-to-lose-height.html
Is it something that the CQC should be made aware of? And is he a medical doctor- should the GMC be alerted? Happy to participate in dobbing him in to both if that would help.
They know what they are doing is wrong. They think they are magicians and that makes it okay.
Poof I’m a girl , lol
Off to bed I’m just being silly now , makes up for me being a crabbit bitch 😂
Anyone know where this speech was delivered and who to?
TIGALA, The Independent Guardian ad Litem Agency (TIGALA) was formed in 2014 and operates nationally (in Ireland). The independent Guardian ad Litem Agency was created to achieve and ensure a consistently high level of Practice standards for all Guardians within the agency.
Going by what's written on his slides it's to TIGALA. So, the Killashee Hotel Naas, Co. Kildare, 2nd February 2018, Getting it right - caring for LGBT+ children in care?
https://www.tigala.ie/conferences/getting-it-right-caring-for-lgbt-children-in-care