I don't understand why the clearly male flasher has not been arrested - it is against the law for a man to expose his penis to a woman or child without consent - being in a changing room should make no difference to that law. Come on women, please, stand up for yourselves and call the Police - this is clearly indecent exposure - we have to fight this head on. I would absolutely call the Police if this happened to me - no hesitation.
Hi UnaS, Yes, but that was a TV programme and viewers tuned in and consented to watch the show - they probably weren't expecting what they saw, but they could instantly push the 'off' button. One cannot do that in real life - and the changing room is real - and a male in the female changing room is a real and present threat - not to mention a real, flesh and blood predatory man getting his kicks by using real women and children as his targets and wank-fodder without their consent - he's right in front of them - naked - not on a screen. Jordan Gray was ridiculous, but when you compare his nudity to the indoctrination and damage done to children's minds via the mass availability of extreme and hardcore pornography online, it's pretty insignificant. I'd be more worried about the real-life fetishistic, porn-addled, predator male in front of them in a female changing room - it cannot possibly be legal for this to continue. Calling the Police is the right answer.
I completely agree .. my point was all of this behaviour is boundary crossing but never challenged. And I completely agree it is criminal and deliberately aggressive to behave like that in a female changing room. Definitely it should always be reported .. even though the reaction is so pathetic.
Short of banning all men from female spaces, catching these men (in order to get them banned) needs security cameras (with no hidden corners) and use of phone cameras by females: to provide very useful evidence for the police.
Used in self-defence: not signifying any form of assent to what is basically a form.of sexual assault, asserting power and intended to intimidate.
I don’t think it is insignificant- the idiot flashing on tv gives it a green light. I’m with Helen Joyce who I recall saying something similar. I wanted to call the police!
Women have to call it out as the crime that it is - immediately - every time it happens. If the police won't act - then the next call is the press, every time.
Flashers used to get off with a police warning, unless caught more than once. But I think it's now being seen as more of a crime -- AND as a warning of potential escalation to more serious offences -- since PC Wayne Couzens's repeated episodes of flashing (reported to police, without action) before his abducting, raping and murdering Sarah Everard.
I recently met a group of new people and this topic came up. Without hesitation every single one of us women and very casually had an example of 'inappropriate' male behaviour. It all comes down to boundary breaking - the breaking of our boundaries by them - then how we are guilt-tripped after. None of the men had a ready supply of anecdotes to share. Across generations and not much has changed. And the 'well what did you do to encourage it' and 'oh he won't do it again' antediluvian attitude from the police who were involved when incidents were reported. This is so ingrained we collectively fail to see how much it is. And how we are taught to be 'polite'. F**k that for a game of soldiers!
Similarly I had a recent experience like this due to my friends teen’s school going neutral sex toilets so the topic came up .. her husband thought we were bigots to mind sharing our spaces (he’s a Corbyn fan) .. whereas we each had stories about serious sexual threat through our teen years (mainly me) and through career (mainly her) .. and what we realised is that many of our male friends and partners don’t know what we’ve already experienced in life because we don’t want to revisit the trauma or raise something that they can’t fix (so why ‘complain’! But mainly the risk of being disbelieved, blamed in anyway etc is always there with friends etc). And our contract with society (re safe spaces) meant we didn’t have to campaign by speaking about those experiences where we were objectified, assaulted, mocked, dominated with very real threat and worse.
Very well said. It's often hard to pitch it at the right level when broaching this. It's also often easier to say oh it's ok now, it turned out ok etc and swiftly move on to easier topics. It actually came up again today with this new group and most of the men said things along the line of it should stop. It's how we get the cultural change we need and not to wait generations for it to maybe, possibly start to begin to change. Only one man present, a younger man, seemed to 'get' it.
It's also when I've seen the horrified looks on others faces that I realise what I'm relaying. So I try to choose my moments. As you talk though, it's sad but common how many open up in return, often for the first time.
It’s one of the reasons older women are silenced/ignored.. we’re women - but we’re not young women with little experience .. we have loads of experience. The young handmaidens will mostly fall from the cult within a few years as they meet the reality of being the object of these orc-like fetishists’ desire and also the reality of womanhood. It sure ain’t ‘a dress’.
I think most people are completely unaware of the scale of the problem -- and don't want to know the stats as it would force them to THINK and probably change their minds, if they're naive "be kind" brainwashed lefties.
Stats (you probably already know) from ONS / Crime Survey of England & Wales:
99% of sex offenders are male
88% of victims are female
Male pattern sex offending does not change with transition
Over 50% of trans-identified male prisoners are convicted sex offenders
Trans-identified males are five times more likely than males generally, to be convicted of sex offences.
To me, it hardly needs any further explanation why we have a range of single sex spaces for males and females, and why breaching this is a serious safety issue for women and girls.
These figure speak volumes to me: but sadly they are meaningless to many people, given that a high proportion of UK school leavers have the maths ability of eight to nine year olds, and do not understand percentages. Eg I had a pointless & frustrating Twitter exchange with a trans ally who objected that these figures "included people who were not trans LOL" so were meaningless -- to him. So we have to find other ways to communicate the nature & scale of the problem.
Your experience with a new group of people and women recounting male sexual harrassment or assault reminds me of the longest Twitter thread I've ever seen: of responses by women to a question "how old were you when first sexually assaulted by a male?" And the woman who'd posted the question was deeply shocked by the result: with hundreds of responses, and mostly so young when assaulted: most were under eight or ten years old.
I was first sexually assaulted at the age of six, by a stranger sitting in bushes behind a hole in a fence, to a garden of a house in a street at the edge of the heath, in Blackheath in London. I shouldn't have been on that street (with my four year old cousin) as my parents didn't know we had strayed that far: trusted to play outside. This was when children were not allowed to say "No" to adults: obedience was required, or there would be trouble. We had probably been warned about not talking to strangers, but in the given power scenario it would have made no difference.
"Come here, little girl" -- I remember being petrified, but having to obey.
I ran all the way home and told my parents -- by whom any mention of sex was normally forbidden, under threat of punishment: "We don't talk about that kind of thing" in icy tones from my mother had already struck fear into me on very cautious enquiry about where babies came from.
But I spent the next couple of hours in the back of a police car driving round local streets, being asked "Is that him?" "Is that him?" as the car slowed down approaching every man on the pavement, for me to havd a good look. I recognised none of them. He wasn't caught.
I doubt the police would bother to do such a search now, even if they had enough officers and a car to spare. The threat of "No-one will believe you" seems enough to deter many women (and children?) from reporting sexual assaults -- plus their expectation that nothing will be done anyway. Rape has been effectively legalised: with charge rates under 10% of reported rapes, and conviction rates barely over 1%.
And I forget CSEW's estimated percentage of rapes and sexual assaults not reported to the police, only to CSEW interviewers. Only that it's shockingly high.
With the institutionalised misogyny of police forces exemplified by the Met, plus drastic underfunding, it's pretty clear that females are under attack from males on both sides of the law. The police, captured by Stonewall, now protect transactivists with placards saying "DECAPITATE TERFs". But they arrest women for putting up posters saying that women are "Adult human females", as "hate" speech.
Thank you for your response. It was hard to read, but I am still glad you did share your personal history. Often these are generationally buried for decades if not whole lives. It used to be the same with war and service trauma never spoken about (and still is for current generations). At a population and public health level we're still guessing a lot of the time. I have often researched 'gaps' in stats and been in very small teams realising the true, more more accurate scale of an issue and also the trends.
We can take this in stages - most focus needs to be on prevention and education, so that fewer incidents occur. We reduce the likelihood it could happen. We front load the safeguarding. Knowing these abuses and any boundary breaking shouldn't be and aren't acceptable, aren't ignored and aren't hidden. That they escalate so we're all in the toxic soup. We can as societies stop this, we can change, we want to change and we will be resolute. Then interventions, acting appropriately and with empathy when the inevitable incidents always will happen. Then supporting those who've experienced it, at whatever level of severity. Removing the shame and blame from the victims. Not accepting the 'lower' level behaviours and cultures that allow patterns to escalate. Nip that in the bud. We know this! It's not in doubt, and yes, how many times do we have to bring statistics alive, to validate them and make and help people believe us.
I am very relieved to see news reports being more open. Retrospectively linking together how many reports, over how many years, from so many men who've then progressed in their offending, from reports lost and ignored, not seen as a pattern, dismissed, 'overlooked' then a child, children, or woman or women are violently assaulted then murdered. When you miss things as a professional it's hard to live with. We need to make it easier to spot, to report, to link, then act. So that multiple reports, flags and escalating risks are not sitting in an inbox somewhere.
I've actually just had exchange this morning with a senior police officer. A relatively short email was full of errors. Dates, time, the actual nature of incidents. Assumptions based on a misreading of facts. I don't like having to proofread and check content to establish this over and over again. I also don't like having to politely correct my colleagues, or more senior ones. As a professional I expect that standard in return. It's often missing. So much of this is about cultures - within the police, wider legal services, male-dominated professions, senior management, health services and wider society. When I look at email headers and see brand blurb telling me how services are 'listening' or 'compassionate' and blah blah when they are just words to many.
What gives me hope is younger men (and women), or mid career saying they too struggle with these attitudes, they do know and want to listen, and it's those older and senior men and they are waiting for them to retire before change can start or happen faster. Weirdly the 'rugby club' attitude of 'what goes on on tour stays on tour' was actually said to me this week. As 'banter'. People smile along nervously. Like me being younger and a woman meant I wouldn't know. That's keeping 'fun' aka sexual assault quiet as 'it's the boys' and 'just what's said'. And don't be a downer or not 'one of the boys' by complaining. The racism and sexism red in tooth and claw and very much alive and well which was admitted (but not in public). 'Not like us' or 'like us'.
I have very clearly stated it is tiring beyond belief to keep having to correct, recorrect, then correct again. I realise services are under strain and there are staffing and other issues, but the general lack of professional standards in many arms of the state I find exhausting.
You can't see trauma, and every time I have to calmly explain this I have to take a very deep breath. Personally and professionally. That's my own trauma, that's generational, sex-specific and tied to communal events and experiences.
Well you could knock me down with a feather, who’d have thought that this would happen.
As regards the ‘justifications’ given, they sound exactly like the crap replies I get from M and S regarding their mixed sex changing rooms which have no signage.
Yes I’ve got some which I’ve used to pin up the leaflets inside toilet and changing room doors but they’re watching out for me now. I’m going to go to different Marks but I also leaflet wherever I go, so all is not lost. I’ve even had people congratulate me when they’ve spotted me so I think the message is slowly getting through. We’ve just got to keep plugging away. Thanks for the suggestion though, others might see it and be encouraged. 😁
Here's another problem which stickers won't resolve in unisex school toilets: boys kicking in cubicle doors to break the locks, to take photos of girls inside. In the news because a girl was hit by the door and injured.
I know, absolutely horrific isn’t it. I know what I’d be doing if I was that child’s mother. They need to get all the parents organised. I was out with some old teaching colleagues yesterday doing my usual terfing and I showed them that picture. It’s a balancing act knowing how much to say without annoying people so I tend to take it a step at a time. I think I’m getting through though, getting them all to sign Mayas petition.
The sign could be made much clearer by a very simple modification, taking a cue from the Cerne Abbas giant. All it needs is a graffiti artist and a can of spray paint. Plus adding "MIXED" to obliterate "FEMALES".
Trouble is, I’ve been warned off for leafleting in order to warn women about the mixed sex facilities and I’d definitely be banned if I went in with a spray can……..very tempting though. Courage calls to courage 💪🏻
Working on it (as there must be thousands of toilets with this problem): doing it Banksy-style with a range of stencils in different sizes (to suit the range of female symbol sizes) for use with aerosol paint would be one option. But cutting the stencils would have to interrupt the archetypal Cerne Abbas outline in various places, to create a line at all. And defacing public property in too permanent a way would invite prosecution. Not ideal.
So vinyl stickers (also in a range of sizes) would be better -- and also easier to apply. An online search of sex symbol stickers has surprisingly turned up nothing (so far) for this ubiquitous symbol.
(But I found a huge number of Cerne Abbas giants, separately.)
So am now trying to find out who makes vinyl stickers, in what quantities at what price.
Never thought my years of political campaigning materials & artworks would arrive at this point! With the only messaging problem so far as I can see, being possible misconstrual of a graphic warning to women, as encouragement to flashers! But I think the needed warning to women trumps possible misconstrual.
Also now think that a range of stickers to cover the whole original "female" symbol would probably be easiest and fastest to apply (no aesthetic judgement needed!) and possibly longest lasting -- but also fairly easy to remove, in case of charges of public nuisance: as unauthorised postering in public places has always been illegal.
And I guess persistence is probably needed: every time a sticker is removed, to put another one up? At least until you get caught & warned off -- when someone else could start doing it.
If somewhere like the adulthumanfemale store wouldn't stock them (as it crosses a line) I could distribute them from a box number. I'm not concerned about production costs.
Another option would be for artwork downloadable online, for printing onto sticky-backed paper & cutting out (even printing onto vinyl? don't know).
Do you have any practical thoughts on the issue?
Feel I first need to go around a lot of public loos, in stores etc, with a cameraphone: to record the range & diversity of signage for females. With a metric scale beside them if possible...
Golly, you’re a lot more organised than me, fantastic ideas. I think the sticker idea is going to be much more doable than spray cans. I’ll look forward to hearing what you come up with.
I’m 70 this year, I can’t believe we’re having to do this all over again 😡
Thanks for endorsing stickers. I'm 81 and not remotely organised -- but have 6 years' experience (long past) in thinking through & writing, designing & producing campaigning materials (for the Green party, now itself captured: but with Green feminists in revolt) -- and this strikes me as worth tackling my chaos for!
Yes it's incredible that women's rights are under this much attack: especially from captured so-called lefties who ought to know better, it's so regressive.
I’m glad your talents are now being used for a good cause rather than the totally captured Greens, although well done to those fighting from within- very brave.
Men that insist on infringing on women’s privacy are at best rude entitled shits. At worst sex offenders. How can anyone tolerate this. F-ing Perverts charter.
Oh well, what can we say? Opposition to ‘trans’ ideology? It’s a ‘culture’ war, nothing more. Confused children, drag queens sexually acting out in front of toddlers, teenage boys castrated, teenage girls having their breasts cut off, young endocrine systems ruined with experimental hormone flooding, sex offenders openly welcomed into female spaces.
A ‘culture’ war.
Yeah, if you need to minimize crimes & atrocities — sure, go ahead — call it a ‘culture’ war.
I wonder what would happen if an angry woman literally kicked a man's naked butt out of the women's changing room? She'd likely be arrested for assault, but in Court, would a judge and jury dare to find her guilty? This is where we'll need to go eventually to get them OUT of our spaces.
Absolutely agree, Roxanne. We need to have the 2010 Equality Act exceptions explained legally in court and hammered home. In Scotland, Lady Haldane actually stated that a GRC would be a legal document for all purposes, as the law stands. This would have meant that, had the GRRB passed into law, any man at all could have had access to one and gained unlimited legal status as a 'woman' because the legal 'womanhood' would have kicked biological sex into touch, and the limitations on gender reassignment would have been completely useless. The GRC also needs to be drastically limited to certain areas - and those should never include access to female spaces, rights, etc. or a let-off from the state keeping data and original records. The 'trans' seem to be able to do exactly as they please, and it has to stop by being stopped legally. I would have Stonewall disbanded, too, and its officers jailed. They have no intention of sharing or of giving females space to breathe; they want it all; and they want us gone.
Lady Haldane seems to be not very bright, or captured, or both. So far as I could make out her whole argument about use of language was specious: it ignored the fact that clearly, those who drew up the Equality Act never dreamt of possible misuse of the term "women" -- let alone the biological term "female" -- to denote men.
Because had these Equality Act drafters anticipated a possibility of such misuse,, clearly they would have taken care to define their terms back in 2010: as continuing to mean what they had meant for hundreds of years.
A group of women needs to form and decide on their tactics. I would suggest a group of women escort him out of the women's changing room right into a public space when he is naked. Escort him to the senior offices and let them enjoy looking at him.
Meanwhile the Equality Act petition set up by Maya Forstater just hit 101,000 and is still rising, showing that women and men in the UK are fucking done with this shit.
In the comment section of the Times, after any article on a 'trans' related topic, one contributor always mentions the petition with a direct link. It has garnered a few more voices from that newspaper.
"Petitions which reach 100,000 signatures are almost always debated. But we may decide not to put a petition forward for debate if the issue has already been debated recently or there’s a debate scheduled for the near future."
Thanks, I hadn't read the disclaimer -- and it is still rising: at 102,000+ signatures when I last checked sometimes yesterday (having tried by mistake to sign the petition a second time).
I think that given this is a political "wedge" issue for the Tories to attract votes away from other parties, the Petitions Committee is unlikely to find a reason to refuse to debate it -- unless another debate is already scheduled.
The sign for females needs to be changed as it is false advertising, if should be changed to male because that's what these mysogjnistic twerps mean. There is no safe or dignified place for natal females to change and so a boycott is the only thing that may change their minds
They want to redefine ‘female’ out of its meaning so woman can just be put back in a place of their choosing. I hate the term trans woman too, theres nothing ‘woman’ about a male body. Rude self obsessed toss pots
Transwomen are transwomen, which is a kind of a man.
On the other hand, trans women are apparently akin to black women or pink women or orange and purple striped women, just a different kind of women (that in this case, don't exist). A subtle but important distinction.
I don't mind the former if they stay in their lane. The latter are a figment of men's imaginations and that is where they can stay. Women are entitled to define ourselves, we don't need help from men of any distinction.
Or agps or mentally unstable. They can dress how they want but they should stay out of schools, law, education, refuges, health, prisons, toilets, gyms, etc., that have a sex segregated space for excellent reasons. Trans identified men are a subset of men and as such are not welcome in women's spaces no matter how they identify, dress, or believe, they are men full stop.
Absolutely on the button, Trudie! We should all embrace this language forthwith - 'trans identified men are a subset of men' - they are NOT a subset of women (let alone actual women). This way, we don't even have to call them MEN (which is an insult to good men) - we can reduce them to a subset of men - which is what they constantly try to do to women, reducing us to a subset of our own sex!! Thank you for elucidating this - this is the correct use of language to identify these fetishists and perverts - a subset of their own sex (and a very sick subset at that).
In a nutshell, CB, no matter how much they deny it, and the sexual feelz. They are larpers. It's about time we were really unkind to these creeps. When I heard about Sarah Everard and how Couzens was allowed a get-out-of-jail card when he might have been stopped, I want to punch the wall in rage at the utter, utter stupidity, and at the waste of a young life.
Apparently "transvestite" is now an outdated and even "offensive" term! Presumably because it retains a link with fetishism, which transactivists hope to eliminate by spreading their net far and wide to enmesh any willing victim.
"transwoman" - compound word like "crayfish" which ain't.
Every use of the adjective-noun pair contributes to the problem, gives credence and currency of the claim that they're actually women. Is that your intent?
goodness me, sorry Steersman you’ve lost me. I just meant that they aren’t women, just men pretending to be, and men dressing as women used to be called transvestites. I’m afraid i’m not particularly bright when it comes to words/most things
But something of a fine point that many aren't aware of -- including too many newspapers. However, the point seems worth emphasizing whenever the opportunity presents itself. 🙂
Y'all might have some interest in some elaborations from Wiktionary:
"However, [transwoman] is often associated with views (notably gender-critical feminism) that hold that transgender women are not women, and thus require a separate word from woman to describe them."
No, it is not my intent to maintain the confusion, it's an attempt at compromise, which is the only way out of this that can possibly work. And I want a way out.
I don't agree that men who want to be women should crawl back under the nearest stone, and anyway they won't. I can live with transwomen as long as they don't claim to be women. They are a kind of a man. They can have spaces of their own, including changing rooms, prisons, toilets, whatever, but they are not welcome in ours, no matter how many other women may say they are. It's not up to any woman to give away our hard won spaces when even one woman does not want them to do so.
Let transwomen be transwomen and we can live in a harmony of sorts. It's worked in other cultures and we can make it work in ours. Britain, unlike the USA, is a tolerant nation and we are nowhere near as misogynistic. We actually have legislation that protects women for all that it is currently being misrepresented and ignored. Let's stop pretending we are an extension of the US and make this work in our own way.
Grace: "I can live with transwomen as long as they don't claim to be women ..."
Glad to see you using the compound word -- "transwoman" -- instead of the adjective-noun pair -- "trans woman" -- as they mean very different things. Which was the point of my previous comment. But see this for details:
However, the facts of the matter are that many transwomen are, in fact, claiming to be both females AND women. Not really going to turn the transloonie tide unless we're prepared to call a spade a shovel, to define precisely what we mean by the terms in question:
" 'If you wish to converse with me,' said Voltaire, 'define your terms.' How many a debate would have been deflated into a paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms! This is the alpha and omega of logic, the heart and soul of it, that every important term in serious discourse shall be subjected to strictest scrutiny and definition. It is difficult, and ruthlessly tests the mind; but once done it is half of any task.” — Will Durant
It winds me up BC. Some men just can’t handle the idea that men and women are equal. Listening to radio 3 yesterday and great to hear all the amazing female composers. What a f-ing waste of talent, all those years of neglecting 50 percent of humanity’s potential.
Accusing us of doing to them what they actually do to us, is psychological projection. DARVO is their favourite tactic: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.
Yes, I agree, but women have to take the initiative to stop financially supporting a system that does not respect them and, in fact, actively goes out of its way to hurt them. Stop going to that gym, stop going to that sport, library, restaurant, bar, etc, until you hit them where they hurt they will continue to allow agps and perverts into women's (biological born females) spaces. Yes its hard to do this and some women will suffer loss of awards, loss of income, etc but IMHO we have to start somewhere and I think this maybe a good start
I mean if my daughter was getting changed with mummy in a female changing room and she saw a stranger’s adult penis, that could literally be her unwilling to go into a locker room again. She’s 4. Probably even more scary if you’re 13? i wouldnt know i was never a girl growing up. I can only imagine.
Exactly this. And we need all the nice patrol to think this through as you have been. People often don't seem to understand what barriers to access are. It's not a literal barrier across a door to a service.
And all these intolerant 'be nicers' don't appear to realise how restrictive and coercive they are. How our lives are again, after very slow progress over many centuries, becoming smaller and smaller, with many of us reduced to being at home and fewer and fewer safe spaces. It's just not worth the risk, so let's add up the cost to the economy of lack of access to all public spaces, all employment, travel, leisure and sport. If girls aren't exercising, how much will that cost in terms of poor health outcomes? Often we can't even raise this topic without being accused of anything and everything by all and sundry. Everywhere now might be where we know men who insist they are women proudly saunter about deliberately wanging their bits about. Women don't do this. Top tip for anyone on the fence: it shows just how male they are to engage in this preening, dominating (not dominant) and selfish land grab, daring us to object. We and our identities are not bleedin mountains to 'conquer'.
The good old UEA. They can't help themselves can they.
They just want to tick a Stonewall box and ignore the law of the land.
I have been reliably informed by Norfolk Police should he do it again - parade around in the ladies changing room with his tackle out...that IS indecent exposure NO MATTER how he identifies. Next time call the police. Take a photo if needs be. But make sure you notify the police. And keep notifying them every time he does it. The UEA need a police visit?
Taking a photo of a flasher in action would be the best possible response! Very useful to the police: date, time and (possibly) location-tagged, evidence of a criminal offence, and photo-ID of the offender.
I have zero desire to see any flasher's appendage -- and the downside of taking a photo might be that it would actually gratify him! But getting the evidence to get him charged in court would be worth it. And there aren't many other ways to fight back.
Flashers appear to be the ones choosing to sacrifice their own "privacy"! And recorded in the act of committing a crime, it might not be much of a defence...
“As a woman I am very happy to say that a woman is NOT just someone who self identifies as such. I do not check the genitals of anyone who informs me of their ‘gender’ through verbal or non verbal presentation. There’s no need. Humans have been clocking other humans’ sex for millennia without the need to do so. Anyone who suggests otherwise is leaning perilously close to being put on a sex offenders register. Or should I say ‘gender’ offenders register?”
Matthew Fulton-Mcalister is a full on numpty. His failure to think through to consequence is exceedingly dangerous for women, vulnerable boys and men, and children.
Turns out my using the C word on Twitter only got me banned for a couple of days so I went straight back in and gave Mathew Fullof-crap a piece of my mind. Plenty of rebuttals I'm happy to see, which he actually reads as he's responded.
👍🙂 Nice to see that Twitter 2.0 -- After Musk (AM) -- is a lot less "forgiving" of the trans-gressions of the transloonie nutcases.
For instance, I see many tweeting the hashtag #TransWomenAreConMen -- have done so many times myself without being exiled to the Outer Darkness. In addition, I saw that Catherine Deves (sp?) -- the Australian politician/activist -- had tweeted that that hashtag was "trending".
We don’t need to check someone’s genitals - usually we can identify a man with one glance (and that’s before they remove their clothes). If any doubt remains we can check for the Adams Apple. They always try to deflect by making it seem we are the pervert.
No man with any decency would do this to women, girls or children. This is a ploy to excuse deviant men. In Scotland, Dame Helena Kennedy is drawing up a template for five different pieces of legislation, all dealing with misogyny. There's a big but, though. None of these pieces of legislation will be of the slightest use in a situation like this, if this deviant male claims to be a 'trans' 'woman' because it must be shown that women and girls will be put in fear and alarm.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the parasitical, odious and vile Stonewall will argue that women and girls cannot be put in a state of fear and alarm around a 'trans' 'woman', and the bears of little brain will defend them. Dame Helena is a supporter of the 'trans' ideology. That the GRRB was brought in first was intended to give these larping men the right to do as they please, basically, and, LEGALLY, no female could object, even if there was misogyny legislation because "stunning and brave... " and "TWAW". No, they are bloody not! They are men larping as women, and I don't care how long they have been 'transitioned'.
A GRC gives all men, if self-ID is successful, the right to legal womanhood. That is why we have been fighting so hard in Scotland to stop this GRRB from passing: any man could gain one, quickly and cheaply and there would be no comeback from the 2010 Equality Act. Stonewall rides roughshod over the EA and tells its vile 'trans' activists to ignore the law. Oh, no, say the politicians, it is only an administrative matter. Like hell it is! Every Tom, Dick and Harry, but especially, Dick, would have wanted a GRC precisely because it is a legal document which would have been opened up to all men, not the few as it is at the moment, with no medical diagnosis necessary.
Be careful, England and Wales - and NI - this is a con to allow all men access to female spaces, rights, sex-specific jobs, healthcare, sports, services, et al. By ignoring the law and the legal protections for females, they will eventually create a two-tiered set of laws against public decency, then, just one - and you can be absolutely sure that they do not intend that those laws will defend female rights. They lied through their teeth to us, and your lot will lie through their teeth to you.
They do not want the extra expense of having to create third spaces for the larpers, autogynephiles and sundry other fetishists. They know they want access to our spaces for a reason - and that the reason is sexually-motivated. Yet, they forge head with this utter bilge and ordure as if it were set out on tablets of stone. Let Stonewall and its equally vile arms pay for third spaces out of the very generous subsidies they get that no other group gets on such a wide and deep scale. The politicians' lies and deceit make me sick now. I loathe them for their cruelty to females. They must really hate us to do this to us. Larping men are a subset of MEN. Men can deal with them.
Legal challenges need to be threatened now every time these creeps try to harass and alarm us and satisfy their porn addiction. Never forget Sarah Everard, who did not need to die. Her murderer was allowed to practise his fetishes with impunity, and a young women was brutally abducted and killed so that a man could use her body as if it was his right. Every psychologist dealing with these people know that their fetishes can escalate. Every politicians has access to the internet where a mountain of corroboratory evidence exists. They KNOW! They all KNOW!
Yep, the next petition which needs to be escalated is the ‘repeal the GRC’ one. So far it’s only got about 10, 000 signatures I think. And I’m terrified of what Labour is going to do. The Tories have got a few short months to get on with some protections for women and children.
Yes, Tenaciously, repeal of the GRA 2004 because it is nothing more than a springboard for more incursions, and get rid of the GRCs that are in circulation. It cannot be so difficult to tailor a GRC to the needs of a man who wants to larp as a woman without giving him carte blanche to avoid all the impositions that apply to the rest of us. No legal womanhood. None. A fiction to avoid embarrassment might be permissible, but no legal status whatsoever - or this will simply rear its head again in another generation because these men are relentless. We need to be just as relentless in defending ourselves against them. Anyone who has not signed the petition, please do so ASAP.
The voice, the height, the shoulders, the Adams apple and the permanently furious and offended expression help me to spot them. Oh - and the ranting about throat punching TERFS on their social media and the banners threatening decapitation. Lots of clues that oddly, our police force keep missing.
Here's a term I gleaned from an interview with the author of Time to Think, the Tavistock malpractice history, which will clarify a great deal. Rather than call the small pharma-funded studies in Holland "The Dutch Studies" as if they were properly conducted and peer reviewed, call them by the name of the drugs company, The Ferring Studies. This is completely justified, as the researchers did not halt their "research" when 15 of the original subjects dropped out, bringing the N = number to 55. Then two subjects died. One as a result of "bottom surgery." The response was nil.
I'm introducing The Heggen Lexicon, with more accurate and descriptive language for all aspects of "trans ideology." Cross-sex ideation is the first term.
I don't understand why the clearly male flasher has not been arrested - it is against the law for a man to expose his penis to a woman or child without consent - being in a changing room should make no difference to that law. Come on women, please, stand up for yourselves and call the Police - this is clearly indecent exposure - we have to fight this head on. I would absolutely call the Police if this happened to me - no hesitation.
Yes … I immediately think of Jordan Gray on channel 4 … flashed the nation and was celebrated for it. These fetishists are ‘sacred’. 🤮
Hi UnaS, Yes, but that was a TV programme and viewers tuned in and consented to watch the show - they probably weren't expecting what they saw, but they could instantly push the 'off' button. One cannot do that in real life - and the changing room is real - and a male in the female changing room is a real and present threat - not to mention a real, flesh and blood predatory man getting his kicks by using real women and children as his targets and wank-fodder without their consent - he's right in front of them - naked - not on a screen. Jordan Gray was ridiculous, but when you compare his nudity to the indoctrination and damage done to children's minds via the mass availability of extreme and hardcore pornography online, it's pretty insignificant. I'd be more worried about the real-life fetishistic, porn-addled, predator male in front of them in a female changing room - it cannot possibly be legal for this to continue. Calling the Police is the right answer.
I completely agree .. my point was all of this behaviour is boundary crossing but never challenged. And I completely agree it is criminal and deliberately aggressive to behave like that in a female changing room. Definitely it should always be reported .. even though the reaction is so pathetic.
Short of banning all men from female spaces, catching these men (in order to get them banned) needs security cameras (with no hidden corners) and use of phone cameras by females: to provide very useful evidence for the police.
Used in self-defence: not signifying any form of assent to what is basically a form.of sexual assault, asserting power and intended to intimidate.
I don’t think it is insignificant- the idiot flashing on tv gives it a green light. I’m with Helen Joyce who I recall saying something similar. I wanted to call the police!
Not a crime with the correct sob story
Women have to call it out as the crime that it is - immediately - every time it happens. If the police won't act - then the next call is the press, every time.
Flashers used to get off with a police warning, unless caught more than once. But I think it's now being seen as more of a crime -- AND as a warning of potential escalation to more serious offences -- since PC Wayne Couzens's repeated episodes of flashing (reported to police, without action) before his abducting, raping and murdering Sarah Everard.
I recently met a group of new people and this topic came up. Without hesitation every single one of us women and very casually had an example of 'inappropriate' male behaviour. It all comes down to boundary breaking - the breaking of our boundaries by them - then how we are guilt-tripped after. None of the men had a ready supply of anecdotes to share. Across generations and not much has changed. And the 'well what did you do to encourage it' and 'oh he won't do it again' antediluvian attitude from the police who were involved when incidents were reported. This is so ingrained we collectively fail to see how much it is. And how we are taught to be 'polite'. F**k that for a game of soldiers!
Similarly I had a recent experience like this due to my friends teen’s school going neutral sex toilets so the topic came up .. her husband thought we were bigots to mind sharing our spaces (he’s a Corbyn fan) .. whereas we each had stories about serious sexual threat through our teen years (mainly me) and through career (mainly her) .. and what we realised is that many of our male friends and partners don’t know what we’ve already experienced in life because we don’t want to revisit the trauma or raise something that they can’t fix (so why ‘complain’! But mainly the risk of being disbelieved, blamed in anyway etc is always there with friends etc). And our contract with society (re safe spaces) meant we didn’t have to campaign by speaking about those experiences where we were objectified, assaulted, mocked, dominated with very real threat and worse.
Very well said. It's often hard to pitch it at the right level when broaching this. It's also often easier to say oh it's ok now, it turned out ok etc and swiftly move on to easier topics. It actually came up again today with this new group and most of the men said things along the line of it should stop. It's how we get the cultural change we need and not to wait generations for it to maybe, possibly start to begin to change. Only one man present, a younger man, seemed to 'get' it.
It's also when I've seen the horrified looks on others faces that I realise what I'm relaying. So I try to choose my moments. As you talk though, it's sad but common how many open up in return, often for the first time.
It’s one of the reasons older women are silenced/ignored.. we’re women - but we’re not young women with little experience .. we have loads of experience. The young handmaidens will mostly fall from the cult within a few years as they meet the reality of being the object of these orc-like fetishists’ desire and also the reality of womanhood. It sure ain’t ‘a dress’.
I think most people are completely unaware of the scale of the problem -- and don't want to know the stats as it would force them to THINK and probably change their minds, if they're naive "be kind" brainwashed lefties.
Stats (you probably already know) from ONS / Crime Survey of England & Wales:
99% of sex offenders are male
88% of victims are female
Male pattern sex offending does not change with transition
Over 50% of trans-identified male prisoners are convicted sex offenders
And (from analysis of 2021 Census by sex-matters.org):
Trans-identified males are five times more likely than males generally, to be convicted of sex offences.
To me, it hardly needs any further explanation why we have a range of single sex spaces for males and females, and why breaching this is a serious safety issue for women and girls.
These figure speak volumes to me: but sadly they are meaningless to many people, given that a high proportion of UK school leavers have the maths ability of eight to nine year olds, and do not understand percentages. Eg I had a pointless & frustrating Twitter exchange with a trans ally who objected that these figures "included people who were not trans LOL" so were meaningless -- to him. So we have to find other ways to communicate the nature & scale of the problem.
Your experience with a new group of people and women recounting male sexual harrassment or assault reminds me of the longest Twitter thread I've ever seen: of responses by women to a question "how old were you when first sexually assaulted by a male?" And the woman who'd posted the question was deeply shocked by the result: with hundreds of responses, and mostly so young when assaulted: most were under eight or ten years old.
I was first sexually assaulted at the age of six, by a stranger sitting in bushes behind a hole in a fence, to a garden of a house in a street at the edge of the heath, in Blackheath in London. I shouldn't have been on that street (with my four year old cousin) as my parents didn't know we had strayed that far: trusted to play outside. This was when children were not allowed to say "No" to adults: obedience was required, or there would be trouble. We had probably been warned about not talking to strangers, but in the given power scenario it would have made no difference.
"Come here, little girl" -- I remember being petrified, but having to obey.
I ran all the way home and told my parents -- by whom any mention of sex was normally forbidden, under threat of punishment: "We don't talk about that kind of thing" in icy tones from my mother had already struck fear into me on very cautious enquiry about where babies came from.
But I spent the next couple of hours in the back of a police car driving round local streets, being asked "Is that him?" "Is that him?" as the car slowed down approaching every man on the pavement, for me to havd a good look. I recognised none of them. He wasn't caught.
I doubt the police would bother to do such a search now, even if they had enough officers and a car to spare. The threat of "No-one will believe you" seems enough to deter many women (and children?) from reporting sexual assaults -- plus their expectation that nothing will be done anyway. Rape has been effectively legalised: with charge rates under 10% of reported rapes, and conviction rates barely over 1%.
And I forget CSEW's estimated percentage of rapes and sexual assaults not reported to the police, only to CSEW interviewers. Only that it's shockingly high.
With the institutionalised misogyny of police forces exemplified by the Met, plus drastic underfunding, it's pretty clear that females are under attack from males on both sides of the law. The police, captured by Stonewall, now protect transactivists with placards saying "DECAPITATE TERFs". But they arrest women for putting up posters saying that women are "Adult human females", as "hate" speech.
Thank you for your response. It was hard to read, but I am still glad you did share your personal history. Often these are generationally buried for decades if not whole lives. It used to be the same with war and service trauma never spoken about (and still is for current generations). At a population and public health level we're still guessing a lot of the time. I have often researched 'gaps' in stats and been in very small teams realising the true, more more accurate scale of an issue and also the trends.
We can take this in stages - most focus needs to be on prevention and education, so that fewer incidents occur. We reduce the likelihood it could happen. We front load the safeguarding. Knowing these abuses and any boundary breaking shouldn't be and aren't acceptable, aren't ignored and aren't hidden. That they escalate so we're all in the toxic soup. We can as societies stop this, we can change, we want to change and we will be resolute. Then interventions, acting appropriately and with empathy when the inevitable incidents always will happen. Then supporting those who've experienced it, at whatever level of severity. Removing the shame and blame from the victims. Not accepting the 'lower' level behaviours and cultures that allow patterns to escalate. Nip that in the bud. We know this! It's not in doubt, and yes, how many times do we have to bring statistics alive, to validate them and make and help people believe us.
I am very relieved to see news reports being more open. Retrospectively linking together how many reports, over how many years, from so many men who've then progressed in their offending, from reports lost and ignored, not seen as a pattern, dismissed, 'overlooked' then a child, children, or woman or women are violently assaulted then murdered. When you miss things as a professional it's hard to live with. We need to make it easier to spot, to report, to link, then act. So that multiple reports, flags and escalating risks are not sitting in an inbox somewhere.
I've actually just had exchange this morning with a senior police officer. A relatively short email was full of errors. Dates, time, the actual nature of incidents. Assumptions based on a misreading of facts. I don't like having to proofread and check content to establish this over and over again. I also don't like having to politely correct my colleagues, or more senior ones. As a professional I expect that standard in return. It's often missing. So much of this is about cultures - within the police, wider legal services, male-dominated professions, senior management, health services and wider society. When I look at email headers and see brand blurb telling me how services are 'listening' or 'compassionate' and blah blah when they are just words to many.
What gives me hope is younger men (and women), or mid career saying they too struggle with these attitudes, they do know and want to listen, and it's those older and senior men and they are waiting for them to retire before change can start or happen faster. Weirdly the 'rugby club' attitude of 'what goes on on tour stays on tour' was actually said to me this week. As 'banter'. People smile along nervously. Like me being younger and a woman meant I wouldn't know. That's keeping 'fun' aka sexual assault quiet as 'it's the boys' and 'just what's said'. And don't be a downer or not 'one of the boys' by complaining. The racism and sexism red in tooth and claw and very much alive and well which was admitted (but not in public). 'Not like us' or 'like us'.
I have very clearly stated it is tiring beyond belief to keep having to correct, recorrect, then correct again. I realise services are under strain and there are staffing and other issues, but the general lack of professional standards in many arms of the state I find exhausting.
You can't see trauma, and every time I have to calmly explain this I have to take a very deep breath. Personally and professionally. That's my own trauma, that's generational, sex-specific and tied to communal events and experiences.
Well you could knock me down with a feather, who’d have thought that this would happen.
As regards the ‘justifications’ given, they sound exactly like the crap replies I get from M and S regarding their mixed sex changing rooms which have no signage.
You can get stickers: https://www.adulthumanfemale.store/stickers This sticker would be just the ticket for M&S https://www.adulthumanfemale.store/product-page/business-identifiers
Yes I’ve got some which I’ve used to pin up the leaflets inside toilet and changing room doors but they’re watching out for me now. I’m going to go to different Marks but I also leaflet wherever I go, so all is not lost. I’ve even had people congratulate me when they’ve spotted me so I think the message is slowly getting through. We’ve just got to keep plugging away. Thanks for the suggestion though, others might see it and be encouraged. 😁
Planning a vist to Scotland in June. Will come armed with stickers and suitable T-Shirts. Probably too warm to wear my Suffragette scarf.
Here's another problem which stickers won't resolve in unisex school toilets: boys kicking in cubicle doors to break the locks, to take photos of girls inside. In the news because a girl was hit by the door and injured.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-schoolgirl-taken-hospital-after-26418069
I know, absolutely horrific isn’t it. I know what I’d be doing if I was that child’s mother. They need to get all the parents organised. I was out with some old teaching colleagues yesterday doing my usual terfing and I showed them that picture. It’s a balancing act knowing how much to say without annoying people so I tend to take it a step at a time. I think I’m getting through though, getting them all to sign Mayas petition.
Good for you, sounds like you're doing great stuff
The sign could be made much clearer by a very simple modification, taking a cue from the Cerne Abbas giant. All it needs is a graffiti artist and a can of spray paint. Plus adding "MIXED" to obliterate "FEMALES".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_figure?wprov=sfti1
Trouble is, I’ve been warned off for leafleting in order to warn women about the mixed sex facilities and I’d definitely be banned if I went in with a spray can……..very tempting though. Courage calls to courage 💪🏻
Good for you for trying. I'd love to wield a can of spray paint myself
Ha ha, I like it!
Working on it (as there must be thousands of toilets with this problem): doing it Banksy-style with a range of stencils in different sizes (to suit the range of female symbol sizes) for use with aerosol paint would be one option. But cutting the stencils would have to interrupt the archetypal Cerne Abbas outline in various places, to create a line at all. And defacing public property in too permanent a way would invite prosecution. Not ideal.
So vinyl stickers (also in a range of sizes) would be better -- and also easier to apply. An online search of sex symbol stickers has surprisingly turned up nothing (so far) for this ubiquitous symbol.
(But I found a huge number of Cerne Abbas giants, separately.)
So am now trying to find out who makes vinyl stickers, in what quantities at what price.
Never thought my years of political campaigning materials & artworks would arrive at this point! With the only messaging problem so far as I can see, being possible misconstrual of a graphic warning to women, as encouragement to flashers! But I think the needed warning to women trumps possible misconstrual.
Also now think that a range of stickers to cover the whole original "female" symbol would probably be easiest and fastest to apply (no aesthetic judgement needed!) and possibly longest lasting -- but also fairly easy to remove, in case of charges of public nuisance: as unauthorised postering in public places has always been illegal.
And I guess persistence is probably needed: every time a sticker is removed, to put another one up? At least until you get caught & warned off -- when someone else could start doing it.
If somewhere like the adulthumanfemale store wouldn't stock them (as it crosses a line) I could distribute them from a box number. I'm not concerned about production costs.
Another option would be for artwork downloadable online, for printing onto sticky-backed paper & cutting out (even printing onto vinyl? don't know).
Do you have any practical thoughts on the issue?
Feel I first need to go around a lot of public loos, in stores etc, with a cameraphone: to record the range & diversity of signage for females. With a metric scale beside them if possible...
Golly, you’re a lot more organised than me, fantastic ideas. I think the sticker idea is going to be much more doable than spray cans. I’ll look forward to hearing what you come up with.
I’m 70 this year, I can’t believe we’re having to do this all over again 😡
Thanks for endorsing stickers. I'm 81 and not remotely organised -- but have 6 years' experience (long past) in thinking through & writing, designing & producing campaigning materials (for the Green party, now itself captured: but with Green feminists in revolt) -- and this strikes me as worth tackling my chaos for!
Yes it's incredible that women's rights are under this much attack: especially from captured so-called lefties who ought to know better, it's so regressive.
I’m glad your talents are now being used for a good cause rather than the totally captured Greens, although well done to those fighting from within- very brave.
Great!
Men that insist on infringing on women’s privacy are at best rude entitled shits. At worst sex offenders. How can anyone tolerate this. F-ing Perverts charter.
Couldn't put it better myself.
Oh well, what can we say? Opposition to ‘trans’ ideology? It’s a ‘culture’ war, nothing more. Confused children, drag queens sexually acting out in front of toddlers, teenage boys castrated, teenage girls having their breasts cut off, young endocrine systems ruined with experimental hormone flooding, sex offenders openly welcomed into female spaces.
A ‘culture’ war.
Yeah, if you need to minimize crimes & atrocities — sure, go ahead — call it a ‘culture’ war.
I agree, that phrase infuriates me. It trivialises the horror that’s going on whilst deflecting blame from the culprits of the horror.
Perfectly put. Language is powerful.
I wonder what would happen if an angry woman literally kicked a man's naked butt out of the women's changing room? She'd likely be arrested for assault, but in Court, would a judge and jury dare to find her guilty? This is where we'll need to go eventually to get them OUT of our spaces.
Absolutely agree, Roxanne. We need to have the 2010 Equality Act exceptions explained legally in court and hammered home. In Scotland, Lady Haldane actually stated that a GRC would be a legal document for all purposes, as the law stands. This would have meant that, had the GRRB passed into law, any man at all could have had access to one and gained unlimited legal status as a 'woman' because the legal 'womanhood' would have kicked biological sex into touch, and the limitations on gender reassignment would have been completely useless. The GRC also needs to be drastically limited to certain areas - and those should never include access to female spaces, rights, etc. or a let-off from the state keeping data and original records. The 'trans' seem to be able to do exactly as they please, and it has to stop by being stopped legally. I would have Stonewall disbanded, too, and its officers jailed. They have no intention of sharing or of giving females space to breathe; they want it all; and they want us gone.
Lady Haldane seems to be not very bright, or captured, or both. So far as I could make out her whole argument about use of language was specious: it ignored the fact that clearly, those who drew up the Equality Act never dreamt of possible misuse of the term "women" -- let alone the biological term "female" -- to denote men.
Because had these Equality Act drafters anticipated a possibility of such misuse,, clearly they would have taken care to define their terms back in 2010: as continuing to mean what they had meant for hundreds of years.
It beats me how Haldane got away with it, too.
Can that Lady Haldane ruling be challenged in some way? Appealed?
A group of women needs to form and decide on their tactics. I would suggest a group of women escort him out of the women's changing room right into a public space when he is naked. Escort him to the senior offices and let them enjoy looking at him.
Do they have "citizen's arrest" in the UK like we do in the US?
Similar, but most advice is don't involve yourself and call the police to let them handle it.
Some brave person or organisation needs to sue.
Meanwhile the Equality Act petition set up by Maya Forstater just hit 101,000 and is still rising, showing that women and men in the UK are fucking done with this shit.
This is excellent.
In the comment section of the Times, after any article on a 'trans' related topic, one contributor always mentions the petition with a direct link. It has garnered a few more voices from that newspaper.
Great. That means it must now be debated in Parliament.
It must keep rising:
"Petitions which reach 100,000 signatures are almost always debated. But we may decide not to put a petition forward for debate if the issue has already been debated recently or there’s a debate scheduled for the near future."
Thanks, I hadn't read the disclaimer -- and it is still rising: at 102,000+ signatures when I last checked sometimes yesterday (having tried by mistake to sign the petition a second time).
I think that given this is a political "wedge" issue for the Tories to attract votes away from other parties, the Petitions Committee is unlikely to find a reason to refuse to debate it -- unless another debate is already scheduled.
Brilliant.
The sign for females needs to be changed as it is false advertising, if should be changed to male because that's what these mysogjnistic twerps mean. There is no safe or dignified place for natal females to change and so a boycott is the only thing that may change their minds
They want to redefine ‘female’ out of its meaning so woman can just be put back in a place of their choosing. I hate the term trans woman too, theres nothing ‘woman’ about a male body. Rude self obsessed toss pots
Transwomen are transwomen, which is a kind of a man.
On the other hand, trans women are apparently akin to black women or pink women or orange and purple striped women, just a different kind of women (that in this case, don't exist). A subtle but important distinction.
I don't mind the former if they stay in their lane. The latter are a figment of men's imaginations and that is where they can stay. Women are entitled to define ourselves, we don't need help from men of any distinction.
trans women are transvestites.
Or agps or mentally unstable. They can dress how they want but they should stay out of schools, law, education, refuges, health, prisons, toilets, gyms, etc., that have a sex segregated space for excellent reasons. Trans identified men are a subset of men and as such are not welcome in women's spaces no matter how they identify, dress, or believe, they are men full stop.
Absolutely on the button, Trudie! We should all embrace this language forthwith - 'trans identified men are a subset of men' - they are NOT a subset of women (let alone actual women). This way, we don't even have to call them MEN (which is an insult to good men) - we can reduce them to a subset of men - which is what they constantly try to do to women, reducing us to a subset of our own sex!! Thank you for elucidating this - this is the correct use of language to identify these fetishists and perverts - a subset of their own sex (and a very sick subset at that).
Trans-identified males (TiMs).
In a nutshell, CB, no matter how much they deny it, and the sexual feelz. They are larpers. It's about time we were really unkind to these creeps. When I heard about Sarah Everard and how Couzens was allowed a get-out-of-jail card when he might have been stopped, I want to punch the wall in rage at the utter, utter stupidity, and at the waste of a young life.
Apparently "transvestite" is now an outdated and even "offensive" term! Presumably because it retains a link with fetishism, which transactivists hope to eliminate by spreading their net far and wide to enmesh any willing victim.
They can’t stand the fact that their hobby of cross dressing is in fact actually just a hobby, not a f-ing calling to a higher plane of existence.
"transwoman" - compound word like "crayfish" which ain't.
Every use of the adjective-noun pair contributes to the problem, gives credence and currency of the claim that they're actually women. Is that your intent?
goodness me, sorry Steersman you’ve lost me. I just meant that they aren’t women, just men pretending to be, and men dressing as women used to be called transvestites. I’m afraid i’m not particularly bright when it comes to words/most things
No problemo -- hope I wasn't too snarky. 🙂
But something of a fine point that many aren't aware of -- including too many newspapers. However, the point seems worth emphasizing whenever the opportunity presents itself. 🙂
Y'all might have some interest in some elaborations from Wiktionary:
"However, [transwoman] is often associated with views (notably gender-critical feminism) that hold that transgender women are not women, and thus require a separate word from woman to describe them."
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trans_woman#Usage_notes
No, it is not my intent to maintain the confusion, it's an attempt at compromise, which is the only way out of this that can possibly work. And I want a way out.
I don't agree that men who want to be women should crawl back under the nearest stone, and anyway they won't. I can live with transwomen as long as they don't claim to be women. They are a kind of a man. They can have spaces of their own, including changing rooms, prisons, toilets, whatever, but they are not welcome in ours, no matter how many other women may say they are. It's not up to any woman to give away our hard won spaces when even one woman does not want them to do so.
Let transwomen be transwomen and we can live in a harmony of sorts. It's worked in other cultures and we can make it work in ours. Britain, unlike the USA, is a tolerant nation and we are nowhere near as misogynistic. We actually have legislation that protects women for all that it is currently being misrepresented and ignored. Let's stop pretending we are an extension of the US and make this work in our own way.
Grace: "I can live with transwomen as long as they don't claim to be women ..."
Glad to see you using the compound word -- "transwoman" -- instead of the adjective-noun pair -- "trans woman" -- as they mean very different things. Which was the point of my previous comment. But see this for details:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_(linguistics)
However, the facts of the matter are that many transwomen are, in fact, claiming to be both females AND women. Not really going to turn the transloonie tide unless we're prepared to call a spade a shovel, to define precisely what we mean by the terms in question:
" 'If you wish to converse with me,' said Voltaire, 'define your terms.' How many a debate would have been deflated into a paragraph if the disputants had dared to define their terms! This is the alpha and omega of logic, the heart and soul of it, that every important term in serious discourse shall be subjected to strictest scrutiny and definition. It is difficult, and ruthlessly tests the mind; but once done it is half of any task.” — Will Durant
https://quotefancy.com/quote/3001527/Will-Durant-If-you-wish-to-converse-with-me-said-Voltaire-define-your-terms-How-many-a
I honestly think they want to obliterate us out of existence, even as they say that's what we doing to them when we describe objective reality.
It winds me up BC. Some men just can’t handle the idea that men and women are equal. Listening to radio 3 yesterday and great to hear all the amazing female composers. What a f-ing waste of talent, all those years of neglecting 50 percent of humanity’s potential.
Accusing us of doing to them what they actually do to us, is psychological projection. DARVO is their favourite tactic: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.
Yes, I agree, but women have to take the initiative to stop financially supporting a system that does not respect them and, in fact, actively goes out of its way to hurt them. Stop going to that gym, stop going to that sport, library, restaurant, bar, etc, until you hit them where they hurt they will continue to allow agps and perverts into women's (biological born females) spaces. Yes its hard to do this and some women will suffer loss of awards, loss of income, etc but IMHO we have to start somewhere and I think this maybe a good start
Sadly that's so: because claiming the term "female" as well as "women" removes the last boundaries of identity, space and safety for women and girls.
I mean if my daughter was getting changed with mummy in a female changing room and she saw a stranger’s adult penis, that could literally be her unwilling to go into a locker room again. She’s 4. Probably even more scary if you’re 13? i wouldnt know i was never a girl growing up. I can only imagine.
Exactly this. And we need all the nice patrol to think this through as you have been. People often don't seem to understand what barriers to access are. It's not a literal barrier across a door to a service.
And all these intolerant 'be nicers' don't appear to realise how restrictive and coercive they are. How our lives are again, after very slow progress over many centuries, becoming smaller and smaller, with many of us reduced to being at home and fewer and fewer safe spaces. It's just not worth the risk, so let's add up the cost to the economy of lack of access to all public spaces, all employment, travel, leisure and sport. If girls aren't exercising, how much will that cost in terms of poor health outcomes? Often we can't even raise this topic without being accused of anything and everything by all and sundry. Everywhere now might be where we know men who insist they are women proudly saunter about deliberately wanging their bits about. Women don't do this. Top tip for anyone on the fence: it shows just how male they are to engage in this preening, dominating (not dominant) and selfish land grab, daring us to object. We and our identities are not bleedin mountains to 'conquer'.
The good old UEA. They can't help themselves can they.
They just want to tick a Stonewall box and ignore the law of the land.
I have been reliably informed by Norfolk Police should he do it again - parade around in the ladies changing room with his tackle out...that IS indecent exposure NO MATTER how he identifies. Next time call the police. Take a photo if needs be. But make sure you notify the police. And keep notifying them every time he does it. The UEA need a police visit?
Taking a photo of a flasher in action would be the best possible response! Very useful to the police: date, time and (possibly) location-tagged, evidence of a criminal offence, and photo-ID of the offender.
Oh yes please, I've always wanted to know what a lady dick looks like.
I have zero desire to see any flasher's appendage -- and the downside of taking a photo might be that it would actually gratify him! But getting the evidence to get him charged in court would be worth it. And there aren't many other ways to fight back.
If you took a photo you'd no doubt be invading his privacy.
Flashers appear to be the ones choosing to sacrifice their own "privacy"! And recorded in the act of committing a crime, it might not be much of a defence...
😆
“As a woman I am very happy to say that a woman is NOT just someone who self identifies as such. I do not check the genitals of anyone who informs me of their ‘gender’ through verbal or non verbal presentation. There’s no need. Humans have been clocking other humans’ sex for millennia without the need to do so. Anyone who suggests otherwise is leaning perilously close to being put on a sex offenders register. Or should I say ‘gender’ offenders register?”
Matthew Fulton-Mcalister is a full on numpty. His failure to think through to consequence is exceedingly dangerous for women, vulnerable boys and men, and children.
He's very pleased with himself as an enabler of male sex offending in female spaces. All his verbiage about it is crap.
Turns out my using the C word on Twitter only got me banned for a couple of days so I went straight back in and gave Mathew Fullof-crap a piece of my mind. Plenty of rebuttals I'm happy to see, which he actually reads as he's responded.
Bloody victim blaming, yet again.
👍🙂 Nice to see that Twitter 2.0 -- After Musk (AM) -- is a lot less "forgiving" of the trans-gressions of the transloonie nutcases.
For instance, I see many tweeting the hashtag #TransWomenAreConMen -- have done so many times myself without being exiled to the Outer Darkness. In addition, I saw that Catherine Deves (sp?) -- the Australian politician/activist -- had tweeted that that hashtag was "trending".
Methinks there's a welcome change in the wind.
We don’t need to check someone’s genitals - usually we can identify a man with one glance (and that’s before they remove their clothes). If any doubt remains we can check for the Adams Apple. They always try to deflect by making it seem we are the pervert.
No man with any decency would do this to women, girls or children. This is a ploy to excuse deviant men. In Scotland, Dame Helena Kennedy is drawing up a template for five different pieces of legislation, all dealing with misogyny. There's a big but, though. None of these pieces of legislation will be of the slightest use in a situation like this, if this deviant male claims to be a 'trans' 'woman' because it must be shown that women and girls will be put in fear and alarm.
You can bet your bottom dollar that the parasitical, odious and vile Stonewall will argue that women and girls cannot be put in a state of fear and alarm around a 'trans' 'woman', and the bears of little brain will defend them. Dame Helena is a supporter of the 'trans' ideology. That the GRRB was brought in first was intended to give these larping men the right to do as they please, basically, and, LEGALLY, no female could object, even if there was misogyny legislation because "stunning and brave... " and "TWAW". No, they are bloody not! They are men larping as women, and I don't care how long they have been 'transitioned'.
A GRC gives all men, if self-ID is successful, the right to legal womanhood. That is why we have been fighting so hard in Scotland to stop this GRRB from passing: any man could gain one, quickly and cheaply and there would be no comeback from the 2010 Equality Act. Stonewall rides roughshod over the EA and tells its vile 'trans' activists to ignore the law. Oh, no, say the politicians, it is only an administrative matter. Like hell it is! Every Tom, Dick and Harry, but especially, Dick, would have wanted a GRC precisely because it is a legal document which would have been opened up to all men, not the few as it is at the moment, with no medical diagnosis necessary.
Be careful, England and Wales - and NI - this is a con to allow all men access to female spaces, rights, sex-specific jobs, healthcare, sports, services, et al. By ignoring the law and the legal protections for females, they will eventually create a two-tiered set of laws against public decency, then, just one - and you can be absolutely sure that they do not intend that those laws will defend female rights. They lied through their teeth to us, and your lot will lie through their teeth to you.
They do not want the extra expense of having to create third spaces for the larpers, autogynephiles and sundry other fetishists. They know they want access to our spaces for a reason - and that the reason is sexually-motivated. Yet, they forge head with this utter bilge and ordure as if it were set out on tablets of stone. Let Stonewall and its equally vile arms pay for third spaces out of the very generous subsidies they get that no other group gets on such a wide and deep scale. The politicians' lies and deceit make me sick now. I loathe them for their cruelty to females. They must really hate us to do this to us. Larping men are a subset of MEN. Men can deal with them.
Legal challenges need to be threatened now every time these creeps try to harass and alarm us and satisfy their porn addiction. Never forget Sarah Everard, who did not need to die. Her murderer was allowed to practise his fetishes with impunity, and a young women was brutally abducted and killed so that a man could use her body as if it was his right. Every psychologist dealing with these people know that their fetishes can escalate. Every politicians has access to the internet where a mountain of corroboratory evidence exists. They KNOW! They all KNOW!
Yep, the next petition which needs to be escalated is the ‘repeal the GRC’ one. So far it’s only got about 10, 000 signatures I think. And I’m terrified of what Labour is going to do. The Tories have got a few short months to get on with some protections for women and children.
Yes, Tenaciously, repeal of the GRA 2004 because it is nothing more than a springboard for more incursions, and get rid of the GRCs that are in circulation. It cannot be so difficult to tailor a GRC to the needs of a man who wants to larp as a woman without giving him carte blanche to avoid all the impositions that apply to the rest of us. No legal womanhood. None. A fiction to avoid embarrassment might be permissible, but no legal status whatsoever - or this will simply rear its head again in another generation because these men are relentless. We need to be just as relentless in defending ourselves against them. Anyone who has not signed the petition, please do so ASAP.
Done! Didn’t know about that one
I think I will print this off and stick it through every letterbox in my town.
I don’t need to check a bloke’s tackle to know he’s a man. The 5 o’ clock shadow, voice and head tilt are usually enough.
The voice, the height, the shoulders, the Adams apple and the permanently furious and offended expression help me to spot them. Oh - and the ranting about throat punching TERFS on their social media and the banners threatening decapitation. Lots of clues that oddly, our police force keep missing.
As do the Scottish police with ‘Beth’ Douglas. Look him up. He’s a peach!
Here's a term I gleaned from an interview with the author of Time to Think, the Tavistock malpractice history, which will clarify a great deal. Rather than call the small pharma-funded studies in Holland "The Dutch Studies" as if they were properly conducted and peer reviewed, call them by the name of the drugs company, The Ferring Studies. This is completely justified, as the researchers did not halt their "research" when 15 of the original subjects dropped out, bringing the N = number to 55. Then two subjects died. One as a result of "bottom surgery." The response was nil.
I'm introducing The Heggen Lexicon, with more accurate and descriptive language for all aspects of "trans ideology." Cross-sex ideation is the first term.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8M0YzE4MXY&t=1s
I think it was Ferring who have given large donations to one of our political parties in the UK, the Liberal Democrats. Must go and check that.
Yes, I was right. Q2 2018 Ferring Pharmaceuticals, who make puberty blockers, donated £234,347 to the Lib Dems.
Everyone who cares about female safeguarding needs to boycott these cowards.