It's rushed through because the longer it takes, the more opportunity there is for public awareness and discussion which will likely result in pushback.
They have been paid big sums to promote this. Poitical parties need funds for their campaigns. The Tories get theirs from big business hence the tax breaks. Lib Dems, Green and Labour are getting paid by the trans lobby. Also, it helps if the leaders are corrupt and self serving and desperate for power. There is a video on You Tube, of Mark Drakeford, First Minister of Wales, saying "Let's hope nobody's bright enough to ask is that should as in regulation, or should as in advice". He is literally saying he hopes his electorate is too thick to understand the law. While that statement doesn't relate to the trans issue, it shows the mentality of the leader of the country, so I don't hold out much hope for Welsh schools.
I checked this as I couldn't believe it. It's much more nuanced and from a year back. This is on Wales Online:
However unlike what it circulating on social media, he then goes on to say more. He adds: "I'm more inclined to say that the message is the same, whether it's in guidance or whether it's in regulations, the message is the same. Only two households should meet together in Wales. That is what I'm telling you today."
This is the perennial issue for those in govt trying to communicate what they are trying to do. The differences between could, should and must. And Wales, Scotland and NI have been hampered by Westminster screeching around letting them know last minute, or refusing to work well together. This isn't the social media coup many think it is.
Health minister Eluned Morgan can be heard to add that she "agrees with Vaughan" and says that people "will take a mile if they give an inch".
This is an well-known issue with drafting regulations and what are the risks some will ignore them, but it will unfairly restrict others. Some people are hugely selfish, will ignore warnings and that's hard to structure laws around.
Also, the fact that you couldn't believe it was true, and had to look it up, and the fact that politicians can treat the electorate like that and let it be heard on TV, in this case on S4C, without caring how insulting it is, is a measure of how complacent they are that we will put up with anything. Even 10 years ago, that statement would have probably ended someone's career.
Also? Not sure that's the gotcha you think it is. I was being open with my thought processes and fallibility.
It's called confirmation bias. We all have it. We tend to think those we like speak truth and those we hate speak lies. We like it when others confirm what we say and do. My instinctive reaction from a cursory read was then changed by a more considered one with facts, less opinion. I double check and don't take at face value most of what I read online.
I also don't think we should be calling for people to be deplatformed and sacked or have their career ended on the flimsiest of accusations. It's easy to attack those in public service and I'd like us to stick to facts.
I couldn't believe your statements no. I looked it up and now think it was not like how you framed it. You took what he said out of context and reframed it. I am not spreading falsehoods on social media.
I did not reframe it. I just stated what he said. To show his mentality. If you interpret what he said differently to me, that's your prerogative. We cannot agree on everything. I did not say you were spreading falsehoods, and I don't want to get into a spat about this.
Too late. You did reframe it and stuff is being edited to set flase flags. Partial quotes without context temporal or otherwise. It's dangerous. I was initially led to believe something that it turns out was not true.
It's not my intention to discuss the merits or otherwise of Mark Drakeford's actions regarding lockdown. I have seen a couple of other people on here trying to push the 'antivaxxers are like trans ideologists' line and I think covid discussions are best left for twitter. The point I am making is that someone with Mark Drakeford's mentality is not fit to run a Christmas raffle let alone a country. There were plenty of other ways he could have phrased it other than "Let's hope nobody's bright enough..." The fact he said that shows his mindset. There's a very strong possibility that he's also thinking "Let's hope parents are not bright enough" to understand the impliactions of the gender identity ideology woowoo he's about to introduce to Welsh schools to indoctrinate children. People wonder why they are writing to their A.M. and getting no response. They are under instruction from Mark Drakeford not to respond. The pandemic has left governments around the world very short of cash and somebody as underhand as Drakeford would be an ideal candidate for implementing anything he was instructed to for the right price. They are definitely getting paid tons of cash for pushing this shit.
He could have said let's hope nobody's bright enough to point out the awful situation we're in and negotiating with the muppets in Westminster in a global pandemic.
Taken out of context it appears awful. He did not say he thought all voters are not bright. He was pointing out how impossible the situation was, and how people were likely to die no matter what they did. I can't imagine the stress of the responsibility they were under and they did not try to hide or block what was shown on S4C. I give credit that all those featured allowed that to be aired.
Please stop attacking him for things he hasn't done. and concentrate on stopping this dire legislation passing.
Like I said, you are free to interpret his comment how you will, but also leave me to my interpretation. That is only fair. Yes I am critisising him, and I have every right to do so, as you have every right to your opinion. I do not want to continue this conversation further as I do not feel it will be productive.
Exactly. Why the rush? It's more and more borrowing from how abuse and pressure sales tactics works. Put pressure on, chuck fear of loss in, reframe the array of options and choice available, skew information, mislead and distract. Quick! Quick! Pass new laws to stop the totally made up numbers of dead glitterites!
If they allow people to pause, think, and have informed consent, they are likely not to pass.
There is a good legal challenge for those attempting this, partly why the conversion consultation was extended to a usual period, rather than a surprisingly short period. It relies on those who know who should be consulted (everyone) approaching and alerting them. Finding out about who and how citizens or residents are consulted is key.
I despair of these current "rush rush" tactics. Does no-one want to take the time to make well-formed decisions anymore? if these curricula pass, it will only lead to suffering and even more inequality. To be honest Ifeel quite despondent at the moment 🥺
They could indocrinate them with virtually anything (e.g acceptance of MAPs) and many parents would never even know. A lot of them just either don't have the time to monitor their kid's education in such detail, or trust that the school will be responsible enough to act in their child's best interests and not to indocrinate them, which I no longer believe to be true. Some parents I have spoken to seem really naive about this.
I always had complete trust in the education system until a few months ago when I came across their inclusivity guidelines by accident. They've got it in without informing parents, who have no idea what their children are being exposed to.
If something like this is being rushed through, the people doing it know it is unpopular, being done for the benefit of people other than the electorate. Unfortunately, we're going to need revolution to change it - ordinary people are being more and more politically marginalised while the civil service pull the strings of the elected "representatives".
Emailed months ago for a sex matters campaign, only Plaid Cymru eventually answered and it was a general woo woo Bo**ocks reply from in my opinion a captured person - hadn’t read Helen Joyce’s book despite all the copies sent. I’m shocked at Jane Hutt as she was involved in setting up women’s aid many years ago. Jane hasn’t replied to anything I’ve sent and neither has Andrew RT Davies - not good
They're utterly captured. It was such an effective tactic to hop on those parties as they did. Sadly because Mother Westminster is doing her bit (now) to stem this flood of dodgy stats and attempts to change legislation for self-ID those in other countries in the creaky Union are seeing that as a good reason to go hell for leather in support of it. Some think if English politicians support it, we'd best be against it. That's often a good enough reason, and many English people would agree, but in this case it's allowing 'National' parties to slip this through in the guise of being progressive, fair, inclusive and on the 'right' side of history (as that was and is controlled and written by nasty English Monarchs and hierarchies in London). It's all so feudal. It's like NZ casting off the colonial strictures and damage by selling women down the river.
We need this to be truly cross-party, need new parties and leave some of our old loyalties behind that are doing us a disservice.
I have thought about writing to my local councillor about it, as I've had positive experiences in the past, but I'm not sure how much input they have with issues like this. I know they are involved in education and community matters but whether this is part of their remit I don't know. They are elected to represent the views of the local community though. A few councillors are also members of the Senedd but not many. And they have changed the rules on that recently so that won't happen in future. If enough people raise their concerns with councillors, maybe something will happen.
No I think a lot of people might be home schooling if it was practical, if they knew what was being proposed. It's horrifying isn't it? It's not just about what they want to teach, but about the fact they seem to be ignoring people's concerns over it; all trust in the education system and the state generally is somehow lost.
God ,this just keeps getting worse !! What the H**L are " governments " playing at ? Is destruction of humanity ( ie Transhumanism ) a good idea , in their tiny minds ? The chaos and suffering this ideology will cause is immeasurable but also pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't keep their brains where the sun don't shine !! I really despair of the human race altogether.Governments talk about ending the violence against women ,while at the same time abolishing every single women only space ,everywhere !! Why do they not have joined- up thinking ? This is completely abhorrent to all normal people and the fight will go on ! Hill to die on.right enough 💪💪💪💪
From 3 years of age: 'Awareness of how to keep safe when using digital media, including sharing with a trusted adult when they feel uncomfortable or scared'.
The more of these things they issue, the worse life on the ground actually seems to get.
I'm not in Wales so can't comment on it officially.
If various countries throughout the western world make it a crime to “misgender” a trans person, or otherwise speak out against gender ideology, you’re not oppressed.
Plaid Cymru said they support womens and trans rights and don’t believe there is a contradiction and have secured funding for a Wales gender identity clinic. They will support the reform of the gender recognition act in accordance with international best practice - ie self id 😅
We've got a real problem with nationalist parties and gender identity hokum. People are choosing between conflicting control over their own jurisdictions, identity and gender identity.
It's scary to see gender identity hopping on to sectarian or nationalist sentiments that have histories of violence. That's happening in NI, Scotland, Wales and England and leaves people struggling to know who they can vote for. It's incendiary.
Oh I’m absolutely clear. I’ve abandoned all hope of Scottish independence because this issue we’re fighting on womens rights is way more important. My admiration for Nicola Sturgeon is at rock bottom.
Why are they all rushing to do this crap? Same in Germany, the self-ID bollocks is considered urgent business. What the hell is going on?
It's rushed through because the longer it takes, the more opportunity there is for public awareness and discussion which will likely result in pushback.
They have been paid big sums to promote this. Poitical parties need funds for their campaigns. The Tories get theirs from big business hence the tax breaks. Lib Dems, Green and Labour are getting paid by the trans lobby. Also, it helps if the leaders are corrupt and self serving and desperate for power. There is a video on You Tube, of Mark Drakeford, First Minister of Wales, saying "Let's hope nobody's bright enough to ask is that should as in regulation, or should as in advice". He is literally saying he hopes his electorate is too thick to understand the law. While that statement doesn't relate to the trans issue, it shows the mentality of the leader of the country, so I don't hold out much hope for Welsh schools.
I checked this as I couldn't believe it. It's much more nuanced and from a year back. This is on Wales Online:
However unlike what it circulating on social media, he then goes on to say more. He adds: "I'm more inclined to say that the message is the same, whether it's in guidance or whether it's in regulations, the message is the same. Only two households should meet together in Wales. That is what I'm telling you today."
This is the perennial issue for those in govt trying to communicate what they are trying to do. The differences between could, should and must. And Wales, Scotland and NI have been hampered by Westminster screeching around letting them know last minute, or refusing to work well together. This isn't the social media coup many think it is.
Health minister Eluned Morgan can be heard to add that she "agrees with Vaughan" and says that people "will take a mile if they give an inch".
This is an well-known issue with drafting regulations and what are the risks some will ignore them, but it will unfairly restrict others. Some people are hugely selfish, will ignore warnings and that's hard to structure laws around.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/drakeford-covid-christmas-clip-bright-22380991
Also, the fact that you couldn't believe it was true, and had to look it up, and the fact that politicians can treat the electorate like that and let it be heard on TV, in this case on S4C, without caring how insulting it is, is a measure of how complacent they are that we will put up with anything. Even 10 years ago, that statement would have probably ended someone's career.
Also? Not sure that's the gotcha you think it is. I was being open with my thought processes and fallibility.
It's called confirmation bias. We all have it. We tend to think those we like speak truth and those we hate speak lies. We like it when others confirm what we say and do. My instinctive reaction from a cursory read was then changed by a more considered one with facts, less opinion. I double check and don't take at face value most of what I read online.
I also don't think we should be calling for people to be deplatformed and sacked or have their career ended on the flimsiest of accusations. It's easy to attack those in public service and I'd like us to stick to facts.
I couldn't believe your statements no. I looked it up and now think it was not like how you framed it. You took what he said out of context and reframed it. I am not spreading falsehoods on social media.
I did not reframe it. I just stated what he said. To show his mentality. If you interpret what he said differently to me, that's your prerogative. We cannot agree on everything. I did not say you were spreading falsehoods, and I don't want to get into a spat about this.
Too late. You did reframe it and stuff is being edited to set flase flags. Partial quotes without context temporal or otherwise. It's dangerous. I was initially led to believe something that it turns out was not true.
It's not my intention to discuss the merits or otherwise of Mark Drakeford's actions regarding lockdown. I have seen a couple of other people on here trying to push the 'antivaxxers are like trans ideologists' line and I think covid discussions are best left for twitter. The point I am making is that someone with Mark Drakeford's mentality is not fit to run a Christmas raffle let alone a country. There were plenty of other ways he could have phrased it other than "Let's hope nobody's bright enough..." The fact he said that shows his mindset. There's a very strong possibility that he's also thinking "Let's hope parents are not bright enough" to understand the impliactions of the gender identity ideology woowoo he's about to introduce to Welsh schools to indoctrinate children. People wonder why they are writing to their A.M. and getting no response. They are under instruction from Mark Drakeford not to respond. The pandemic has left governments around the world very short of cash and somebody as underhand as Drakeford would be an ideal candidate for implementing anything he was instructed to for the right price. They are definitely getting paid tons of cash for pushing this shit.
Was he a school teacher before being a politician?
Yes. Amongst other things.
He was a Uni lecturer.
You have attacked him on here for just that and now say it's not your intention? Wow.
He could have said let's hope nobody's bright enough to point out the awful situation we're in and negotiating with the muppets in Westminster in a global pandemic.
Taken out of context it appears awful. He did not say he thought all voters are not bright. He was pointing out how impossible the situation was, and how people were likely to die no matter what they did. I can't imagine the stress of the responsibility they were under and they did not try to hide or block what was shown on S4C. I give credit that all those featured allowed that to be aired.
Please stop attacking him for things he hasn't done. and concentrate on stopping this dire legislation passing.
Like I said, you are free to interpret his comment how you will, but also leave me to my interpretation. That is only fair. Yes I am critisising him, and I have every right to do so, as you have every right to your opinion. I do not want to continue this conversation further as I do not feel it will be productive.
This isn't 'opinion'. Have you seen the full video? I'd recommend it. Please stop trying to whip things up which does not help any of us.
Criticise him on the facts (there are plenty to criticise).
Exactly. Why the rush? It's more and more borrowing from how abuse and pressure sales tactics works. Put pressure on, chuck fear of loss in, reframe the array of options and choice available, skew information, mislead and distract. Quick! Quick! Pass new laws to stop the totally made up numbers of dead glitterites!
If they allow people to pause, think, and have informed consent, they are likely not to pass.
There is a good legal challenge for those attempting this, partly why the conversion consultation was extended to a usual period, rather than a surprisingly short period. It relies on those who know who should be consulted (everyone) approaching and alerting them. Finding out about who and how citizens or residents are consulted is key.
I despair of these current "rush rush" tactics. Does no-one want to take the time to make well-formed decisions anymore? if these curricula pass, it will only lead to suffering and even more inequality. To be honest Ifeel quite despondent at the moment 🥺
Sorry you feel dispondent. I often do too, but please keep fighting. We are making some gains.
They could indocrinate them with virtually anything (e.g acceptance of MAPs) and many parents would never even know. A lot of them just either don't have the time to monitor their kid's education in such detail, or trust that the school will be responsible enough to act in their child's best interests and not to indocrinate them, which I no longer believe to be true. Some parents I have spoken to seem really naive about this.
I always had complete trust in the education system until a few months ago when I came across their inclusivity guidelines by accident. They've got it in without informing parents, who have no idea what their children are being exposed to.
If something like this is being rushed through, the people doing it know it is unpopular, being done for the benefit of people other than the electorate. Unfortunately, we're going to need revolution to change it - ordinary people are being more and more politically marginalised while the civil service pull the strings of the elected "representatives".
Emailed months ago for a sex matters campaign, only Plaid Cymru eventually answered and it was a general woo woo Bo**ocks reply from in my opinion a captured person - hadn’t read Helen Joyce’s book despite all the copies sent. I’m shocked at Jane Hutt as she was involved in setting up women’s aid many years ago. Jane hasn’t replied to anything I’ve sent and neither has Andrew RT Davies - not good
They're utterly captured. It was such an effective tactic to hop on those parties as they did. Sadly because Mother Westminster is doing her bit (now) to stem this flood of dodgy stats and attempts to change legislation for self-ID those in other countries in the creaky Union are seeing that as a good reason to go hell for leather in support of it. Some think if English politicians support it, we'd best be against it. That's often a good enough reason, and many English people would agree, but in this case it's allowing 'National' parties to slip this through in the guise of being progressive, fair, inclusive and on the 'right' side of history (as that was and is controlled and written by nasty English Monarchs and hierarchies in London). It's all so feudal. It's like NZ casting off the colonial strictures and damage by selling women down the river.
We need this to be truly cross-party, need new parties and leave some of our old loyalties behind that are doing us a disservice.
Thanks! Written twice to all my representatives, had no response.
Same here despite reminding them and copying in conservative Alan Cairns and mentioning no replies- very bad indeed
I have thought about writing to my local councillor about it, as I've had positive experiences in the past, but I'm not sure how much input they have with issues like this. I know they are involved in education and community matters but whether this is part of their remit I don't know. They are elected to represent the views of the local community though. A few councillors are also members of the Senedd but not many. And they have changed the rules on that recently so that won't happen in future. If enough people raise their concerns with councillors, maybe something will happen.
How about contactin her media outlets..BBC,local radio(commercial) libraries mother and toddlers groups etc.+ of course the usual avenues....
And hit the streets.
Personally if aa had weans in this day an age they widnae be exposed tae the education(sic) system.
No I think a lot of people might be home schooling if it was practical, if they knew what was being proposed. It's horrifying isn't it? It's not just about what they want to teach, but about the fact they seem to be ignoring people's concerns over it; all trust in the education system and the state generally is somehow lost.
God ,this just keeps getting worse !! What the H**L are " governments " playing at ? Is destruction of humanity ( ie Transhumanism ) a good idea , in their tiny minds ? The chaos and suffering this ideology will cause is immeasurable but also pretty obvious to anyone who doesn't keep their brains where the sun don't shine !! I really despair of the human race altogether.Governments talk about ending the violence against women ,while at the same time abolishing every single women only space ,everywhere !! Why do they not have joined- up thinking ? This is completely abhorrent to all normal people and the fight will go on ! Hill to die on.right enough 💪💪💪💪
From 3 years of age: 'Awareness of how to keep safe when using digital media, including sharing with a trusted adult when they feel uncomfortable or scared'.
The more of these things they issue, the worse life on the ground actually seems to get.
I'm not in Wales so can't comment on it officially.
If various countries throughout the western world make it a crime to “misgender” a trans person, or otherwise speak out against gender ideology, you’re not oppressed.
Plaid Cymru said they support womens and trans rights and don’t believe there is a contradiction and have secured funding for a Wales gender identity clinic. They will support the reform of the gender recognition act in accordance with international best practice - ie self id 😅
We've got a real problem with nationalist parties and gender identity hokum. People are choosing between conflicting control over their own jurisdictions, identity and gender identity.
It's scary to see gender identity hopping on to sectarian or nationalist sentiments that have histories of violence. That's happening in NI, Scotland, Wales and England and leaves people struggling to know who they can vote for. It's incendiary.
Oh I’m absolutely clear. I’ve abandoned all hope of Scottish independence because this issue we’re fighting on womens rights is way more important. My admiration for Nicola Sturgeon is at rock bottom.
Guess they're being paid too then!