Mighty Hoopla is a festival I suppose Macy is hoping to play. Here, they’re threatening her for stepping out of line. This led to the inevitable panicked tweet from Macy. We’ve all seen a version of this statement before, and I can easily imagine the pressure she’s under because I’ve been subject to it myself for a number of years. It’s horrible. But please, Macy, don’t apologise any more to these authoritarian bullies. The more of us who stand up, the safer it’ll be for all of us. In the meantime, thank you for speaking out.
Mighty Hoopla took place in June so I guess their statement is aimed at fragile people who may be retrospectively traumatised by having danced and sung along to Macy Gray over a month ago?
I know it's difficult but I really wish people would stop apologising for speaking the truth and standing up for women and children's rights and safety. There are a lot of us to back her up against these horrible bullies. They never forgive ANYBODY for ANYTHING no matter how reasonable you are. Well done to her , and Piers as well ♥️👏👍
I agree, Susan. I think the more you apologise the worse they may get because an apology implies they are right and you are wrong, and being wrong means you are an unworthy, if not evil, person deserving of punishment. Surely the best defence then is standing your ground or attacking (as General Patton proved, again and again) because being bullies the majority will back off and seek easier meat.
At the end of the day it depends on personal circumstances. I wouldn’t be too hard on Macy Grey as she is not really a big name (money wise) and, if memory serves me right, has had personal troubles in the past.
There is no utopia for them. It's logically and conceptually impossible. Let's let aside the totalitarian dystopia this would be for everyone else - if we all played along cheerfully, they'd have no one left to blame for the permanent cognitive dissonance they are in. That is potentially more terrifying and worse than at least being able to blame your not feeling well in your body - whatever the stage of "transition" - on "not being validated" by others.
That cognitive dissonance is very obviously a terrible state to be in, and I certainly don't want to make light of it, but I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people "being nice" and playing along as much as they can potentially makes this worse than it already is. Certainly a thin line to tread between affording people they dignity they deserve and affirming their own irrational images of themselves. Doesn't only go for trans people, but they are certainly the group most affected by this question in contemporary society.
Possibly. From what I heard, the trans cult is just a tool to use to disrupt society. When it’s served it’s purpose it will be discarded. I feel like I’m talking about a conspiracy theory, but it’s what James Lindsay was reading out from an academic paper, that I think was written in the eighties. It seemed to be a long term plan for the future.
What transideology has disrupted the most is what's left of leftist and feminist movements. It has dramatically increased their tendency to split and dissolve, and in the eyes of the public it makes "the Left" utterly unappealing. It has thoroughly corrupted the Left in just a few years. If you had any idea how deep the conflict about transideology is within the Left at large, and how many long time activists it has deterred from any further engagement, and what amount of damage it has caused within the Left overall, you'd more likely believe that transideology was a bourgeois plot to do away with what of leftist and feminist movements has survived 1991. Whatever the disruptions in Western society transideology will cause, they will very certainly not lead to a Communist society. They will undermine any basis for it, intellectually and conceptually, and, of course, on an organisational level.
I'm fairly sure there are some papers about how to take over a society by causing conflict and confusion by members of just about every political movement. This doesn't mean they are representative of the movement at large or have been adopted by it. Heck, most leaders of the movements will not even be aware of them, let alone guide them politics. There are a few exceptions, such as the neoliberal takeover starting in the late 70's, the radicalization of the Republican party in the past 20 years, or the strategies of the Identitarian movement, which, btw, is much, much closer to transideology in terms of basic concepts of the world, than transideology is to any leftist movement.
Yes, the impression I got from the podcast, was that a genuine belief in gender ideology was not necessary, as it would be discarded later anyway, once they’d got to a certain stage in the process of converting society into their form of utopia. It sounded like a horrendous sort of mad and miserable chaos, but that’s academia for you? I don’t know, I never went to university. I don’t believe us women are being oppressed by the way. We have no systemic misogyny in our society, as far as I know.
Sorry to say, but what you were listening to is a conspiracy theory based on the phantasies of radical rightwing nuts who are no better than transideology.
Exactly. Particularly Engels devoted a book to this question. Also, it has been the premise of Marxism - and that of related strands of socialism - that there is a material world out there that sets the conditions for not only our lives but, in its social dimensions, determines our very consciousness - not the other way round, as transideology postulates. And that hence, for consciousness to change, the material conditions that people live in must be changed - not the other way round, as transideology postulates. Of course, transideology has no theory at all of economics and class, and neither to these postmodernist currents that are closely related to it and currently jointly affect us, even though they are hardly coordinated. All these currents, be it Critical Race Theory, Queer"feminism" etc., in fact reject any such theory rather explicitly, and deny adamantly that there is any objective knowledge of the world to be had at all and that this can and should be the basis of a modern society and a guide for politics. Lastly, Marxism, Communism - as well as classic Liberalism - postulates that all human beings are endowed with the same rights and capabilities and are equal. There is no idea of it in transideology and its sister schools of thought. Again, they wholeheartedly reject any notion of universalism over identitarianism.
"Trans people and their bodies". What bodies are those? The same as each and every human being on the planet -- female and male. Assigned at conception and until death you do part.
This has become a very fashionable suffix to make someone's statements about discrimination sound more sincere and the discrimination more sinister.
The premise is that body and soul are not only different entities but more or less independent of each other and that it is somehow possible to discriminate against one but not the other.
So discrimination against or oppression of someone's mind is not as sinister and severe as oppressing someone's body alongside it - whatever that means.
It also means that discrimination and oppression are possible without physical oppression or threat thereof of some sort or another - which is of course nonsense. Ultimately, there is a always the threat of say prison, homelessness or isolation.
This of course negates that our minds are a function of our bodies, and although they take on a life of their own, they can not exist independently of a body.
Another thing is how "trans bodies" are being "oppressed" specifically as bodies. What does "trans bodies are being oppressed" even mean? How could that be achieved without "oppression" of "trans people" as a whole - imagined though that "oppression" is.
As nonsensical as "... and their bodies are being oppressed" is, I do find it rather revealing. It shows the mindset of these people very clearly, and it is a very medieval or early modern mindset, in other words: they have ressorted to Magical Thinking, and they make no secret of it, even though most of them will be unaware of it themselves.
It's like the executioner at the behest of the Holy Inquisition slowly burning a heretic to death in order for the flames to cleanse the heretic's soul. In that case the heretic's body is arguably oppressed to the point of annihilation, but his soul is set free.
She did, and I hope she doesn't think she has no choice other than to concede to the sententious tyrants who'll inevitably come after her. If that happens, they'll expect nothing less forever. No one should feel they have to say they love someone to avoid getting into trouble. Who anyone loves is no one else's fucking business. She needs some support and I hope she gets it. Women can't keep running scared or apologise because they don't want to let men claim them and reshape their minds and bodies into something that fits them. Women should not apologise for wanting places where only women can go.
Men have taken so much from women, men as men, men as women, men as neither. No one in any of those categories has had the experience of growing up as female, of living as women and being disadvantaged as a consequence. Of being sexually objectified from a young age, sexually harassed, abused or raped.
They've never been pregnant, or had to contemplate having an abortion, legally or illegally, if they didn't want to be pregnant. They aren't at risk of not being promoted at work in case they get pregnant and leave, or having to give up their jobs because they can't afford to pay for child care. None of these things happen to women because they 'feel' like women, they happen because they 'are' women.
Yes absolutely - it's a horrible pressure to burden her with - I hope she keeps the courage of her convictions and as you say gets all the support she may need in the face of this gender mob cruelty.
Your words 'sexually objectified' tie in so well with what MG herself says re her conversation with Prince ... that she needs to hang onto being a person behind the performance [as we all do?] and that is so important imho. Especially for female performers.
Seems 'gender ideology' is mere narcissistic 'image/performance is all' when it comes down to it - yet the 'woke' talk of 'lived experience' .... except ocourse when it comes to women!
It's also such a shallow, insensitive, ignorant and narrow idea of self and others to foist on girls and boys - or anyone else.
Interesting also how the 'black pamperati' at Posie's Bristol meetup screamed 'old woman' as if this was the biggest insult rather than respecting or at least listening to ahem 'lived experience' ..... They shout and threaten as if they know what they're talking about but they havent got a friggin clue obvs.
No, you're right, they haven't got a friggin clue, and they are demanding and getting so much on the basis of that. Some men might have what they regard as more 'feminine' characteristics, but it's unlikely that they're innate components of being female. They are the ones women have been assigned or developed primarily as a consequence of being restricted and dominated by men. Their ideas of what culturally distinguishes men from women belong to another era
If the masculine stereotype or stereotypes don't reflect the person they are, then live outside them, be other kinds of men. I see that as something to be commended and supported. Men who wear 'women's' clothes, be their more feminine self, etc. But regarding themselves and asking to be regarded literally as women is a very different proposition. Men claiming to feel like women, whatever that means, doesn't make them women. And it doesn't make them women because they still have access to the privileges being men gives them. Women don't have that
And some certainly do access those privileges, and often it's to the detriment and disadvantage of women. I'm not going to question anyone's internal identity or tell them they can't identify in a certain way, but I'm not going to accept it as a material reality if doing so means I'm going to be oppressed, discriminated against and disadvantaged. The mantra, "transwomen are women" negates the 'trans' part entirely. What is trans then, and what does it mean? In real terms, it seems to mean they have more grounds for successfully bullying women.
As written by the inevitable 21 year-old fresh out of Gender-Woo studies at Woke University which has finished with education and replaced it with indoctrination.
She gained 10,000 followers someone was saying. So hopefully that will show her how many people agree with her. Plus there's lots of supportive comments too.
She clearly stated in the interview that she supported people being whatever they wanted to be but that being a little girl (and by implication going through everything that that entails) is a unique experience. What the heck is wrong with that? What is wrong with acknowledging that there are experiences that are specific to women and girls which trans women do not, and can not, ever have access to.? And which you cannot reproduce as an identity via surgery. The more these things are brought into the public domain and put on loudspeaker by the TRAs the more people will see how ridiculous it all is. Mind you, Piers knew exactly what he was doing in that interview and what the consequences would be for a fragile woman of colour trashed by the online mob.
Yes and I think the way they mercilessly targeted JKRowling was because her fans are young and easily bullied.
Outside academia that is. GermaineG the first to be attacked and de platformed just stepped back and said she wasn’t giving anymore, she wasn’t putting up with that shit. I wish Mike Lynch would put everyone straight, not that anyone dare interview him of course. The ducking and cowardice makes me shudder. The fans of Macy and Bette Midler need to fight back.
If one wants to put a finger on one thing about our societies, it's that so much is not open to debate. One is supposed to swallow all propaganda passively and then chant the slogan of the day.
Looks like she's deleted the back peddle tweet now. Hopefully she's okay. Everyone with a music streaming service: play a Macy Gray album this week!
If there's one thing we know about TRAs, it's that they always accept such statements with good grace and move on.
...
Sorry, not that, the opposite. Hopefully Macy has someone letting her know how this will play out.
Yeah, they only identify as "being kind".
That's an excellent suggestion. I will add 'Try' to my Spotify playlist. And, do people still send in requests to radio stations? Try that, too.
Mighty Hoopla took place in June so I guess their statement is aimed at fragile people who may be retrospectively traumatised by having danced and sung along to Macy Gray over a month ago?
haha
I know it's difficult but I really wish people would stop apologising for speaking the truth and standing up for women and children's rights and safety. There are a lot of us to back her up against these horrible bullies. They never forgive ANYBODY for ANYTHING no matter how reasonable you are. Well done to her , and Piers as well ♥️👏👍
I agree, Susan. I think the more you apologise the worse they may get because an apology implies they are right and you are wrong, and being wrong means you are an unworthy, if not evil, person deserving of punishment. Surely the best defence then is standing your ground or attacking (as General Patton proved, again and again) because being bullies the majority will back off and seek easier meat.
At the end of the day it depends on personal circumstances. I wouldn’t be too hard on Macy Grey as she is not really a big name (money wise) and, if memory serves me right, has had personal troubles in the past.
Totally agree. I feel sorry for her as well but caving in to the mob just makes them worse. Hope she's ok anyway.♥️🙏
Maybe we need to let her know how much we appreciated her words .... her agents are Champions (UK) plc- this is their email address: info@musicandbands.co.uk ; website: https://musicandbands.co.uk/booking-agent/macy-gray
Just awful what these cry bullies put women through. Where does it stop?
I think it stops when they eventually get their utopia.
There is no utopia for them. It's logically and conceptually impossible. Let's let aside the totalitarian dystopia this would be for everyone else - if we all played along cheerfully, they'd have no one left to blame for the permanent cognitive dissonance they are in. That is potentially more terrifying and worse than at least being able to blame your not feeling well in your body - whatever the stage of "transition" - on "not being validated" by others.
That cognitive dissonance is very obviously a terrible state to be in, and I certainly don't want to make light of it, but I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people "being nice" and playing along as much as they can potentially makes this worse than it already is. Certainly a thin line to tread between affording people they dignity they deserve and affirming their own irrational images of themselves. Doesn't only go for trans people, but they are certainly the group most affected by this question in contemporary society.
After listening to James Lindsays Groomer schools 4: drag queen story hour, it sounds like the ultimate goal is a communist state?
Transideolody is about as anticommunist as it gets.
Possibly. From what I heard, the trans cult is just a tool to use to disrupt society. When it’s served it’s purpose it will be discarded. I feel like I’m talking about a conspiracy theory, but it’s what James Lindsay was reading out from an academic paper, that I think was written in the eighties. It seemed to be a long term plan for the future.
What transideology has disrupted the most is what's left of leftist and feminist movements. It has dramatically increased their tendency to split and dissolve, and in the eyes of the public it makes "the Left" utterly unappealing. It has thoroughly corrupted the Left in just a few years. If you had any idea how deep the conflict about transideology is within the Left at large, and how many long time activists it has deterred from any further engagement, and what amount of damage it has caused within the Left overall, you'd more likely believe that transideology was a bourgeois plot to do away with what of leftist and feminist movements has survived 1991. Whatever the disruptions in Western society transideology will cause, they will very certainly not lead to a Communist society. They will undermine any basis for it, intellectually and conceptually, and, of course, on an organisational level.
I'm fairly sure there are some papers about how to take over a society by causing conflict and confusion by members of just about every political movement. This doesn't mean they are representative of the movement at large or have been adopted by it. Heck, most leaders of the movements will not even be aware of them, let alone guide them politics. There are a few exceptions, such as the neoliberal takeover starting in the late 70's, the radicalization of the Republican party in the past 20 years, or the strategies of the Identitarian movement, which, btw, is much, much closer to transideology in terms of basic concepts of the world, than transideology is to any leftist movement.
Both Marx and Engels knew the root of the oppression of women is their SEX. It's not communist at all the think otherwise.
Yes, the impression I got from the podcast, was that a genuine belief in gender ideology was not necessary, as it would be discarded later anyway, once they’d got to a certain stage in the process of converting society into their form of utopia. It sounded like a horrendous sort of mad and miserable chaos, but that’s academia for you? I don’t know, I never went to university. I don’t believe us women are being oppressed by the way. We have no systemic misogyny in our society, as far as I know.
Sorry to say, but what you were listening to is a conspiracy theory based on the phantasies of radical rightwing nuts who are no better than transideology.
Exactly. Particularly Engels devoted a book to this question. Also, it has been the premise of Marxism - and that of related strands of socialism - that there is a material world out there that sets the conditions for not only our lives but, in its social dimensions, determines our very consciousness - not the other way round, as transideology postulates. And that hence, for consciousness to change, the material conditions that people live in must be changed - not the other way round, as transideology postulates. Of course, transideology has no theory at all of economics and class, and neither to these postmodernist currents that are closely related to it and currently jointly affect us, even though they are hardly coordinated. All these currents, be it Critical Race Theory, Queer"feminism" etc., in fact reject any such theory rather explicitly, and deny adamantly that there is any objective knowledge of the world to be had at all and that this can and should be the basis of a modern society and a guide for politics. Lastly, Marxism, Communism - as well as classic Liberalism - postulates that all human beings are endowed with the same rights and capabilities and are equal. There is no idea of it in transideology and its sister schools of thought. Again, they wholeheartedly reject any notion of universalism over identitarianism.
"Trans people and their bodies". What bodies are those? The same as each and every human being on the planet -- female and male. Assigned at conception and until death you do part.
This has become a very fashionable suffix to make someone's statements about discrimination sound more sincere and the discrimination more sinister.
The premise is that body and soul are not only different entities but more or less independent of each other and that it is somehow possible to discriminate against one but not the other.
So discrimination against or oppression of someone's mind is not as sinister and severe as oppressing someone's body alongside it - whatever that means.
It also means that discrimination and oppression are possible without physical oppression or threat thereof of some sort or another - which is of course nonsense. Ultimately, there is a always the threat of say prison, homelessness or isolation.
This of course negates that our minds are a function of our bodies, and although they take on a life of their own, they can not exist independently of a body.
Another thing is how "trans bodies" are being "oppressed" specifically as bodies. What does "trans bodies are being oppressed" even mean? How could that be achieved without "oppression" of "trans people" as a whole - imagined though that "oppression" is.
As nonsensical as "... and their bodies are being oppressed" is, I do find it rather revealing. It shows the mindset of these people very clearly, and it is a very medieval or early modern mindset, in other words: they have ressorted to Magical Thinking, and they make no secret of it, even though most of them will be unaware of it themselves.
It's like the executioner at the behest of the Holy Inquisition slowly burning a heretic to death in order for the flames to cleanse the heretic's soul. In that case the heretic's body is arguably oppressed to the point of annihilation, but his soul is set free.
This is exactly the same mindset.
She told the truth.
She did, and I hope she doesn't think she has no choice other than to concede to the sententious tyrants who'll inevitably come after her. If that happens, they'll expect nothing less forever. No one should feel they have to say they love someone to avoid getting into trouble. Who anyone loves is no one else's fucking business. She needs some support and I hope she gets it. Women can't keep running scared or apologise because they don't want to let men claim them and reshape their minds and bodies into something that fits them. Women should not apologise for wanting places where only women can go.
Men have taken so much from women, men as men, men as women, men as neither. No one in any of those categories has had the experience of growing up as female, of living as women and being disadvantaged as a consequence. Of being sexually objectified from a young age, sexually harassed, abused or raped.
They've never been pregnant, or had to contemplate having an abortion, legally or illegally, if they didn't want to be pregnant. They aren't at risk of not being promoted at work in case they get pregnant and leave, or having to give up their jobs because they can't afford to pay for child care. None of these things happen to women because they 'feel' like women, they happen because they 'are' women.
Yes absolutely - it's a horrible pressure to burden her with - I hope she keeps the courage of her convictions and as you say gets all the support she may need in the face of this gender mob cruelty.
Your words 'sexually objectified' tie in so well with what MG herself says re her conversation with Prince ... that she needs to hang onto being a person behind the performance [as we all do?] and that is so important imho. Especially for female performers.
Seems 'gender ideology' is mere narcissistic 'image/performance is all' when it comes down to it - yet the 'woke' talk of 'lived experience' .... except ocourse when it comes to women!
It's also such a shallow, insensitive, ignorant and narrow idea of self and others to foist on girls and boys - or anyone else.
Interesting also how the 'black pamperati' at Posie's Bristol meetup screamed 'old woman' as if this was the biggest insult rather than respecting or at least listening to ahem 'lived experience' ..... They shout and threaten as if they know what they're talking about but they havent got a friggin clue obvs.
No, you're right, they haven't got a friggin clue, and they are demanding and getting so much on the basis of that. Some men might have what they regard as more 'feminine' characteristics, but it's unlikely that they're innate components of being female. They are the ones women have been assigned or developed primarily as a consequence of being restricted and dominated by men. Their ideas of what culturally distinguishes men from women belong to another era
If the masculine stereotype or stereotypes don't reflect the person they are, then live outside them, be other kinds of men. I see that as something to be commended and supported. Men who wear 'women's' clothes, be their more feminine self, etc. But regarding themselves and asking to be regarded literally as women is a very different proposition. Men claiming to feel like women, whatever that means, doesn't make them women. And it doesn't make them women because they still have access to the privileges being men gives them. Women don't have that
And some certainly do access those privileges, and often it's to the detriment and disadvantage of women. I'm not going to question anyone's internal identity or tell them they can't identify in a certain way, but I'm not going to accept it as a material reality if doing so means I'm going to be oppressed, discriminated against and disadvantaged. The mantra, "transwomen are women" negates the 'trans' part entirely. What is trans then, and what does it mean? In real terms, it seems to mean they have more grounds for successfully bullying women.
As written by the inevitable 21 year-old fresh out of Gender-Woo studies at Woke University which has finished with education and replaced it with indoctrination.
She gained 10,000 followers someone was saying. So hopefully that will show her how many people agree with her. Plus there's lots of supportive comments too.
That's just on twitter. She should get lots of support outside of twitter too.
We out number the TRAs and we can overcome the bullies.
We certainly do!
She clearly stated in the interview that she supported people being whatever they wanted to be but that being a little girl (and by implication going through everything that that entails) is a unique experience. What the heck is wrong with that? What is wrong with acknowledging that there are experiences that are specific to women and girls which trans women do not, and can not, ever have access to.? And which you cannot reproduce as an identity via surgery. The more these things are brought into the public domain and put on loudspeaker by the TRAs the more people will see how ridiculous it all is. Mind you, Piers knew exactly what he was doing in that interview and what the consequences would be for a fragile woman of colour trashed by the online mob.
Lots of lovely and very supportive comments for her under the official ‘Try’ video on YouTube.
I've been playing Macy all day on Spotify.
That statement - I didn't read past 'cis' and I never will.
So Macy is being punished but not Piers? A discussion surely involves 2 or more people. Macy's statement was understood - loud and clear!
Yes and I think the way they mercilessly targeted JKRowling was because her fans are young and easily bullied.
Outside academia that is. GermaineG the first to be attacked and de platformed just stepped back and said she wasn’t giving anymore, she wasn’t putting up with that shit. I wish Mike Lynch would put everyone straight, not that anyone dare interview him of course. The ducking and cowardice makes me shudder. The fans of Macy and Bette Midler need to fight back.
"Not up for debate".
That says it all really.
From the Mighty Hoopla:
"Trans people and their bodies are not up for debate ...”
Why not? In the true scientific spirit everything should be constantly up for debate.
“... and cis TV personalities and the channels that hire them ....”
Since “cis” refers to “normal” people, are we assumed to take a suspicious attitude towards the TV channels that (have the audacity to?) hire them.
“... need to stop discussing them on air.”
Thus proclaims the new dogma.
Exactly: WHY NOT?
If one wants to put a finger on one thing about our societies, it's that so much is not open to debate. One is supposed to swallow all propaganda passively and then chant the slogan of the day.