"As a white heterosexual man, it is not his place, he argued, to enter into discourse about things of which he has no experience, neither being a woman nor belonging to the LGBTQ+ community. Middle-class straight men, he said, should just “pipe down and butt out”, leaving women to fight their corner without interference from men."
Indeed. The gender extremist "humans can change sex" conjecture significantly affects everyone. We all have a vested interest including a place in "the discourse".
It is bullshit, there are many other categories of person he doesn't belong to, but I doubt that would cause him to feel because of that, he couldn't offer an opinion if they were being oppressed and exploited, etc.
Like many other people, this lawyer doesn't want to do anything to draw attention to himself and feel uncomfortable as a result. For some, that's perfectly understandable, they are aware that even indicating they don't sympathise with the current authoritarian gender identity orthodoxy could make things difficult for them, let alone actively opposing it. I doubt he's in that position.
Also "not the business of males" is demonstrably a cop out because us men remain largely in charge and of course that includes women's spaces and places.
This is such a good point. I'd bet the ranch the legal eagle feels free to pontificate on all aspects of the life of any criminal, yet (presumably) he's 100% law abiding.
People who stay silent in the face of oppression are in fact choosing a side, that of the oppressor. It was the same in Nazi Germany, it was the same in Apartheid South Africa and it is the same in domestic abuse. Staying silent is complicity.
They sometimes need a little help to understand who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed in this scenario, especially when they've been indoctrinated with bilge.
Particularly when the oppressor is presenting as oppressed and is a gaslighting expert. Men make really bad laws around women - you can see their lack of understanding in domestic abuse laws, sexual assault laws and now the legal lie that people can change sex. When laws are based on lies they inevitably fall over sooner or later.
With only .01% of rapes leading to a conviction it seems of little consequence how the law is worded now, police and judiciary have legalised it by default
I would point out that it is still rape if it involves a fist, a broom handle, a bottle, or any other object; a penis is hardly necessary, and that's a poorly written law if that's what it states.
Yes but the attackers are not 'rapists' and a woman who commits such an assault is not a rapist. Women can be found guilty being an accessory to the crime of rape but would not themselves be the rapist. This is UK law, as I understand it.
That seems true of left wing men. But I'm suspicious, because good old fashioned sexists are saying it too: 'you women deserve this for bullying us'. Maybe left wing men are good old fashioned sexists too.
Misogyny is universal, same as domestic abuse which it stems from. There is no class divide amongst men on who they regard as inferior and who needs putting down.
No need for shame, the whole of the world gaslights women into thinking of men as protectors rather than predators. The few bad apples mantra plus Hollywood's extensive output which portrays men as heroes and produces hardly any films around domestic abuse/rape ensures that women are subject to huge levels of propoganda before their lived experience begins to challenge this.
I would point out that speaking up in Nazi Germany and South Africa came with DIRE consequences, usually death and perhaps torture beforehand. Whatever the barrister had to face, one assumes it was neither death nor torture. How many people think they would have been brave enough to have defied the Nazis or the South African government? I've only met one person in my 68 years whom I can confidently say would have defied authority.
This IS about men how can that seemingly intelligent man think it is an issue for women all "transwomen" are male therefore it is absolutely an issue for men.
Stonewall knows that. It's why they aren't challenging het men. They came for lesbians first. Then all women. Then gay men. They hope to have it all made law before het men realise what is expected of them.
It's their long term strategy and it's why it's SO frustrating when so many men claim it doesn't affect them. Just wait until your average guy down the pub is told to date a 'woman' with a penis!
Middle class men seem to be either scared or go along with it - working class men aren't affected by it - yet and won't be until they realise the effect it has on women but hopefully we won't get to that stage here, that is when it will become dangerous for transsexual people as well.
Definitely. I think so many people are still clueless about what is happening, but at last some main stream media is speaking out, even if it's the Daily Fail and Telegraph.
Even when you explain it to men in the SNP many still expect us to wheesht for independence. I've been a woman a lot longer than I've been an independence supporter. The SNP is making Scotland into a totalitarian state, and that's not the party I want writing our new constitution.
So why aren't men interested on behalf of their mothers, daughters, sisters? Most want to be seen as head of the family and yet do a piss poor job of taking on the responsiblity of keeping their female relatives safe.
In most cases because this has only recently started to appear in the media as something other than "feminine" males - classic transsexuals - and be seen in it's true light - an attempt to Queer society.
Yes. This has been hidden for years, as has most misogyny. As Germaine Greer said "Women fail to understand how much men hate them." Ignoring and disregarding women and their views and safety is a way of hating.
Not all men, of course, but a high percentage never consider women's feelings.
By remaining quiet and not speaking up he is complicit in what is taking place. He is literally using the privilege of the patriarchy as a shield. He knows what is happening is wrong and yet is content to stay quiet - he can do so because there is no threat to him. That is privilege. Women are consistently dismissed and not taken seriously so we need male voices (as much as it irks me it is reality), to amplify ours. Also, this is a societal issue, not just a women's issue so choosing to be a bystander is utter BS and just throwing women under the wagon. Shame on him.
"As a white heterosexual man, it is not his place, he argued, to enter into discourse about things of which he has no experience, neither being a woman nor belonging to the LGBTQ+ community. Middle-class straight men, he said, should just “pipe down and butt out”, leaving women to fight their corner without interference from men."
And would he have used the same / adapted argument in the 30’s ... that as he wasn’t a German Jew he couldn’t possibly enter into a discourse about things of which he had no experience?
What a stupidly spineless argument. What a pathetic man.
He could say the same about racism or homophobia but he won't, the reason being that men are targeted as part of those attacks and he is implicitly identifying with their male victims, irrespective of their race/ethnicity or sexuality.
He says he is white but that is entirely irrelevant to his argument, which refers to experiences outside of his sex, sexuality and hypothetical "gender identity".
The only demographic he is not prepared to defend is the opposite sex: women.
His position is overtly misogynistic but he has no insight into this at all.
I see trans identified men as men. Not transwomen and certainly not women. They are a subset of the male sex. They have nothing to do with being female.
Time to (1) Repeal the GRA2004 which is the cause of all the mischief - it is a law to legalise a lie and falsify official documents - birth certificates; (2) remove "gender reassignment" from the list of protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010 and (3) make consequential changes to Hate Crime legislation.
Unless we grab this nettle/ideology and pull it out it will continue to spread from the West to all developing countries and the poorest nations on Earth. They will not thank us for substituting "gender reassignment surgery" for their vile practices of "female genital mutilation".
"Our story - Part 2, The Documentary - How to Be a Girl"
BBC World Service 9 May 2021
Extract: South Africa
(This illustrates that "Transgender" medicine is a boon for families who cannot tolerate gender nonconformity in their children and a last resort for lesbians whose lives are blighted by homophobia. The parents sing, "We are the lucky ones".)
Sad that so many men are using this same excuse to opt out of this fight. Shame on them. Do they not yet realise that bystanders are just complicit ,selfish cowards? Great article from Heather. Well done to her. 👏👏Well done to you too ,Graham.,for having the courage to stand up for what's right. You're a hero to all of us ♥️👍👍👍
Exactly so. Those who reveal the Emperor in all his nakedness can stand tall. The number of people who accept and even encourage their own deception is deeply depressing. The worst social failing in my lifetime with the long term effects still to come.
And demanding that they agree it's the most FEMININE appendage they ever saw in their entire lives! Not anything male about it, no sirree! Covered in lace and pink ribbons! Delicately scented with Chanel No 5!
In addition Gender Identity Ideology hurts boys & men! It reinforces sexist stereotypes leading vulnerable boys to believe themselves to be female & medicalize. Moreover the imposition of Cult beliefs on everyone, the requirement that all must lie, the gutting of biology curricula, the messing with kids’ critical thinking skills….all these things matter immensely.
Totally agree. trasexuals only exist because of masculine stereotypes. I have never heard the narrative of a transexual that does not involve homophobia (whether the boy was gay or not) or very rigid gendered expectations from parents. But unlike women wth gender dysphoria who enact this on their own bodies, men with gender dysphoria enact it on women and children. Their problem, literally becomes our problem
Great article. And all that 'I don't want to speak for women' guff? Speak for yourself man! You were born of a woman, you know what one is; your job is meant to require of you truth and justice. Pfft
Yes, this fight is in the interests of everybody, in spite of the fact that it's women and children bearing the brunt of it. I don't believe either that the extreme gender woo position favours even most trans people themselves. They've to a large degree been taken hostage in this war on women's rights. However it's understandable if they don't make themselves a target. But men most definitely need to get involved if for no other reason than to counterbalance the worrying number of young women who have bought into the shitshow. I'd refrain from using the word coward since this vicious tactic of getting people cancelled and locked out of society is a very real power factor capable of enormous harm. There will be casualties for sure and Graham knows that, but the only way to put an end to it is for millions to stand up together and say "Enough". So . . . the marching season's coming on . . . ??
It very definitely is to do with men - mens sexuality to be precise - if he’s led a very sheltered life I’d give him some books to read. Why is this problem dumped on women to resolve? He and others like him need a kick up the a****
So many men I know, not all middle class, heterosexual and white, have taken this stance. "It is not our fight." "It is a more powerful argument if we stay outside" "Nobody listens to us anyway". Cut off their source of free beer and moaning time, different story
The time it has taken to persuade my brothers abd dad to support without the throwing up of hands 8n disgust and the vries of "I am so fed up of all this!"
As I continue to say over and over, it is not your spaces they are stealing. It is not your voice they are trying to silence. I have been encouraged to fight for equality all my life, how dare they say they will not stand by my side. How dare they say they will not have my back.
If you want to be friends, if you want to be my brother, my dad, you will stand beside me and you will have my back, just as I have done for you throughout our friendship and family life. You do not get a free "get out of jail free" card, of this I am sure.
And guess what, their 2 brain cells spoke to each other and agreed that what I say makes sense, and they will stand beside me and they will have my back, apart from rwo CEOs who should k ow better but don't. I no longer call them friends and I don't miss them. But they do miss me by the number of texts and emails I get from them. All deleted. They won't stand beside me, they no longer exist.
Thank you. I have so much respect for Graham Linehan, who has lost so much to support women and girls. And we need more Daley Thompsons who will regularly speak up for us.. Andy Murray; I’m waiting? I agree that this issue needs men, and that ‘neutrality’ is actually supporting the ongoing attack on women’s rights.
"As a white heterosexual man, it is not his place, he argued, to enter into discourse about things of which he has no experience, neither being a woman nor belonging to the LGBTQ+ community. Middle-class straight men, he said, should just “pipe down and butt out”, leaving women to fight their corner without interference from men."
BULLSHIT! This very much is HIS fight.
Indeed. The gender extremist "humans can change sex" conjecture significantly affects everyone. We all have a vested interest including a place in "the discourse".
It is bullshit, there are many other categories of person he doesn't belong to, but I doubt that would cause him to feel because of that, he couldn't offer an opinion if they were being oppressed and exploited, etc.
Like many other people, this lawyer doesn't want to do anything to draw attention to himself and feel uncomfortable as a result. For some, that's perfectly understandable, they are aware that even indicating they don't sympathise with the current authoritarian gender identity orthodoxy could make things difficult for them, let alone actively opposing it. I doubt he's in that position.
So he's a lawyer who doesn't want to draw attention to himself and feel uncomfortable as a result?
Might I suggest another line of work?
I doubt he'd accept it. He can probably take attention and discomfort when he's being paid well to feel it.
I always said it's better to cry in the back of a Bentley.
Better than the back of a bus.
Also "not the business of males" is demonstrably a cop out because us men remain largely in charge and of course that includes women's spaces and places.
This is such a good point. I'd bet the ranch the legal eagle feels free to pontificate on all aspects of the life of any criminal, yet (presumably) he's 100% law abiding.
That's a big presumption!
Don't white heterosexual men have mothers? Sisters? Daughters? Spouses? Sounds like he doesn't care about any women in his life.
The disposition of this barrister reeks of spectacularly lazy shit.
CRT and Queer theory spread hand in hand. In a democracy all have the right to speak regardless of “lived experience.”
I do have a way with words.
But we're awaiting another fashion take-down from you on your substack.
Soon.
People who stay silent in the face of oppression are in fact choosing a side, that of the oppressor. It was the same in Nazi Germany, it was the same in Apartheid South Africa and it is the same in domestic abuse. Staying silent is complicity.
They sometimes need a little help to understand who is the oppressor and who is the oppressed in this scenario, especially when they've been indoctrinated with bilge.
Particularly when the oppressor is presenting as oppressed and is a gaslighting expert. Men make really bad laws around women - you can see their lack of understanding in domestic abuse laws, sexual assault laws and now the legal lie that people can change sex. When laws are based on lies they inevitably fall over sooner or later.
However, the law that rape can only be perpetrated with the use of a penis, is a good one.
With only .01% of rapes leading to a conviction it seems of little consequence how the law is worded now, police and judiciary have legalised it by default
Yes, that statistic is shocking.
I would point out that it is still rape if it involves a fist, a broom handle, a bottle, or any other object; a penis is hardly necessary, and that's a poorly written law if that's what it states.
Under the law in the UK, those are not rape but "assault by penetration":
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Offences_Act_2003
Assault with an object brings with it similar sentences.
Yes but the attackers are not 'rapists' and a woman who commits such an assault is not a rapist. Women can be found guilty being an accessory to the crime of rape but would not themselves be the rapist. This is UK law, as I understand it.
That seems true of left wing men. But I'm suspicious, because good old fashioned sexists are saying it too: 'you women deserve this for bullying us'. Maybe left wing men are good old fashioned sexists too.
Misogyny is universal, same as domestic abuse which it stems from. There is no class divide amongst men on who they regard as inferior and who needs putting down.
Yes. This is clear to me now. To my shame, it wasn't before.
No need for shame, the whole of the world gaslights women into thinking of men as protectors rather than predators. The few bad apples mantra plus Hollywood's extensive output which portrays men as heroes and produces hardly any films around domestic abuse/rape ensures that women are subject to huge levels of propoganda before their lived experience begins to challenge this.
I would point out that speaking up in Nazi Germany and South Africa came with DIRE consequences, usually death and perhaps torture beforehand. Whatever the barrister had to face, one assumes it was neither death nor torture. How many people think they would have been brave enough to have defied the Nazis or the South African government? I've only met one person in my 68 years whom I can confidently say would have defied authority.
B-but he runs the risk of having his Twitter account BANNED, Susan! OH THE HUMANITY
This IS about men how can that seemingly intelligent man think it is an issue for women all "transwomen" are male therefore it is absolutely an issue for men.
It will be more of an issue when men are being universally pilloried for not including Transwomen in their dating pool.
Stonewall knows that. It's why they aren't challenging het men. They came for lesbians first. Then all women. Then gay men. They hope to have it all made law before het men realise what is expected of them.
It's their long term strategy and it's why it's SO frustrating when so many men claim it doesn't affect them. Just wait until your average guy down the pub is told to date a 'woman' with a penis!
It’s why no one is asking that men’s sports be handicapped for inclusivity of trans men. No one would stand for it.
They won't be though as it is not men who are the target.
They will be. Gay men are already being targeted. Stonewall is just biding their time.
Middle class men seem to be either scared or go along with it - working class men aren't affected by it - yet and won't be until they realise the effect it has on women but hopefully we won't get to that stage here, that is when it will become dangerous for transsexual people as well.
Definitely. I think so many people are still clueless about what is happening, but at last some main stream media is speaking out, even if it's the Daily Fail and Telegraph.
Even when you explain it to men in the SNP many still expect us to wheesht for independence. I've been a woman a lot longer than I've been an independence supporter. The SNP is making Scotland into a totalitarian state, and that's not the party I want writing our new constitution.
So why aren't men interested on behalf of their mothers, daughters, sisters? Most want to be seen as head of the family and yet do a piss poor job of taking on the responsiblity of keeping their female relatives safe.
In most cases because this has only recently started to appear in the media as something other than "feminine" males - classic transsexuals - and be seen in it's true light - an attempt to Queer society.
Yes. This has been hidden for years, as has most misogyny. As Germaine Greer said "Women fail to understand how much men hate them." Ignoring and disregarding women and their views and safety is a way of hating.
Not all men, of course, but a high percentage never consider women's feelings.
Yes, or transbians including other transbians in theirs!
Absolutely right
By remaining quiet and not speaking up he is complicit in what is taking place. He is literally using the privilege of the patriarchy as a shield. He knows what is happening is wrong and yet is content to stay quiet - he can do so because there is no threat to him. That is privilege. Women are consistently dismissed and not taken seriously so we need male voices (as much as it irks me it is reality), to amplify ours. Also, this is a societal issue, not just a women's issue so choosing to be a bystander is utter BS and just throwing women under the wagon. Shame on him.
"As a white heterosexual man, it is not his place, he argued, to enter into discourse about things of which he has no experience, neither being a woman nor belonging to the LGBTQ+ community. Middle-class straight men, he said, should just “pipe down and butt out”, leaving women to fight their corner without interference from men."
And would he have used the same / adapted argument in the 30’s ... that as he wasn’t a German Jew he couldn’t possibly enter into a discourse about things of which he had no experience?
What a stupidly spineless argument. What a pathetic man.
This is your male feminist having overdosed on soy.
He could say the same about racism or homophobia but he won't, the reason being that men are targeted as part of those attacks and he is implicitly identifying with their male victims, irrespective of their race/ethnicity or sexuality.
He says he is white but that is entirely irrelevant to his argument, which refers to experiences outside of his sex, sexuality and hypothetical "gender identity".
The only demographic he is not prepared to defend is the opposite sex: women.
His position is overtly misogynistic but he has no insight into this at all.
I see trans identified men as men. Not transwomen and certainly not women. They are a subset of the male sex. They have nothing to do with being female.
Yes it is a mens problem but they look the other way
I keep on writing this.
Time to (1) Repeal the GRA2004 which is the cause of all the mischief - it is a law to legalise a lie and falsify official documents - birth certificates; (2) remove "gender reassignment" from the list of protected characteristics in the Equality Act 2010 and (3) make consequential changes to Hate Crime legislation.
Unless we grab this nettle/ideology and pull it out it will continue to spread from the West to all developing countries and the poorest nations on Earth. They will not thank us for substituting "gender reassignment surgery" for their vile practices of "female genital mutilation".
PS: I think that I see a pattern....
It has already spread to most, if not all, "developing countries" and is causing at least if not more mischief outside "the West". For example,
"Mexico: 15 fake transgender candidates disqualified from election"
22 June 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/22/mexico-elections-fake-transgender-candidates-disqualified
"Chile is the home to Latin America’s first transgender school"
Jan 6 2019
https://chileherald.com/chile-is-the-home-to-latin-americas-first-transgender-school/1604/
"Our story - Part 2, The Documentary - How to Be a Girl"
BBC World Service 9 May 2021
Extract: South Africa
(This illustrates that "Transgender" medicine is a boon for families who cannot tolerate gender nonconformity in their children and a last resort for lesbians whose lives are blighted by homophobia. The parents sing, "We are the lucky ones".)
https://youtu.be/AHr9bOJyDVk
Many more examples from other parts of the world here:
https://www.womenarehuman.com/
Thank you for that chilling list. I will keep a copy of your post here.
Sad that so many men are using this same excuse to opt out of this fight. Shame on them. Do they not yet realise that bystanders are just complicit ,selfish cowards? Great article from Heather. Well done to her. 👏👏Well done to you too ,Graham.,for having the courage to stand up for what's right. You're a hero to all of us ♥️👍👍👍
These aren't men, they're low-value soyboys who call themselves feminists.
This is why I don't ever call myself a feminist.
Imagine seeing an opportunity to change what you see as an injustice but leaving the baton on the floor.
I would urge your friend to understand that only in NUMBERS can a change be made and that number starts at 1.
(Edit..see Graham Linehan)
Exactly so. Those who reveal the Emperor in all his nakedness can stand tall. The number of people who accept and even encourage their own deception is deeply depressing. The worst social failing in my lifetime with the long term effects still to come.
Not only is the Emperor naked, he's wagging his dick in everyone's face!
Can you do some training in their workplace 😂
Oh, it'd be my pleasure! 😉
And demanding that they agree it's the most FEMININE appendage they ever saw in their entire lives! Not anything male about it, no sirree! Covered in lace and pink ribbons! Delicately scented with Chanel No 5!
In addition Gender Identity Ideology hurts boys & men! It reinforces sexist stereotypes leading vulnerable boys to believe themselves to be female & medicalize. Moreover the imposition of Cult beliefs on everyone, the requirement that all must lie, the gutting of biology curricula, the messing with kids’ critical thinking skills….all these things matter immensely.
Totally agree. trasexuals only exist because of masculine stereotypes. I have never heard the narrative of a transexual that does not involve homophobia (whether the boy was gay or not) or very rigid gendered expectations from parents. But unlike women wth gender dysphoria who enact this on their own bodies, men with gender dysphoria enact it on women and children. Their problem, literally becomes our problem
Great article. And all that 'I don't want to speak for women' guff? Speak for yourself man! You were born of a woman, you know what one is; your job is meant to require of you truth and justice. Pfft
Yes, above all truth and accuracy
Yes, this fight is in the interests of everybody, in spite of the fact that it's women and children bearing the brunt of it. I don't believe either that the extreme gender woo position favours even most trans people themselves. They've to a large degree been taken hostage in this war on women's rights. However it's understandable if they don't make themselves a target. But men most definitely need to get involved if for no other reason than to counterbalance the worrying number of young women who have bought into the shitshow. I'd refrain from using the word coward since this vicious tactic of getting people cancelled and locked out of society is a very real power factor capable of enormous harm. There will be casualties for sure and Graham knows that, but the only way to put an end to it is for millions to stand up together and say "Enough". So . . . the marching season's coming on . . . ??
It very definitely is to do with men - mens sexuality to be precise - if he’s led a very sheltered life I’d give him some books to read. Why is this problem dumped on women to resolve? He and others like him need a kick up the a****
So many men I know, not all middle class, heterosexual and white, have taken this stance. "It is not our fight." "It is a more powerful argument if we stay outside" "Nobody listens to us anyway". Cut off their source of free beer and moaning time, different story
The time it has taken to persuade my brothers abd dad to support without the throwing up of hands 8n disgust and the vries of "I am so fed up of all this!"
As I continue to say over and over, it is not your spaces they are stealing. It is not your voice they are trying to silence. I have been encouraged to fight for equality all my life, how dare they say they will not stand by my side. How dare they say they will not have my back.
If you want to be friends, if you want to be my brother, my dad, you will stand beside me and you will have my back, just as I have done for you throughout our friendship and family life. You do not get a free "get out of jail free" card, of this I am sure.
And guess what, their 2 brain cells spoke to each other and agreed that what I say makes sense, and they will stand beside me and they will have my back, apart from rwo CEOs who should k ow better but don't. I no longer call them friends and I don't miss them. But they do miss me by the number of texts and emails I get from them. All deleted. They won't stand beside me, they no longer exist.
Apologies for some of the spelling, my fingers are particularly stiff today. My badness coming out!!!
Well said
Thank you. I have so much respect for Graham Linehan, who has lost so much to support women and girls. And we need more Daley Thompsons who will regularly speak up for us.. Andy Murray; I’m waiting? I agree that this issue needs men, and that ‘neutrality’ is actually supporting the ongoing attack on women’s rights.