Apologies to Julie Bindel for publishing her brilliant Laurie Penny piece with Penny's preferred pronouns inserted. I should have sought permission! I thought it a good illustration of how, by requesting them of her, Penny wanted to make Julie sound ridiculous. These requests also serve as a way of distracting her audience from a bad review and avoiding the scrutiny that may come in its wake.
Jan 24, 2022·edited Jan 24, 2022Liked by Graham Linehan
"Penny said in relation to the incident that the child should not “stare at other people’s genitals without their permission, because it’s rude.”"
This is why I'm not remotely interested in Laurie Penny's opinion on feminism or on much else, because anyone who takes the side of a flasher over his child victim can fuck off. She demonstrates a lack of basic human compassion, let alone any insight into feminism.
However, I'm very glad to see Julie Bindel effortlessly dismantle Penny's Titania McGrath-style idiocy. Laurie Penny will of course be pathologically-incapable of reflecting on any of it but there we go.
She seems very well educated to me, with what the academies of *ahem* “higher” learning have been churning out for the last few decades. There’s a dangerous lack of critical thinking going on in them there institutions. It’s so often the case now that many people’s level of education exceeds their intelligence!
Educated in what exactly? She very obviously and very proudly lacks the general knowledge and the at least basic familiarity with scientific methodology that shoud come with a college diploma. Yes, she is a tragic product of an academia that has chosen blissful ignorance over knowledge - and that most of all has violated the right of young people to at least a basic education. That her lack of education is not her own fault - or at least not primarily - does not change the fact that she is undereducated. It's just a more polite way of putting it. I don't deny that Laurie Penny is also a victim in this regard. But as she uses her ignorance as a weapon against other people, and makes a lot of money with it, I see no need to be polite to her.
I just pointed it out because she *is* educated, with fancy papers and all. This is the kind of educational product (?) that those institutions and those who consider themselves to be “elites” approve of. Are you still so unwaveringly faithful to the religion called science that you can’t see the manipulation that’s in play, and that we’re not getting science or education from or at them? They receive training there, yes, and that’s what’s being passed off as “education.” It’s pathetic.
We can agree that she's got some papers and that they're worth nothing. But the training they get in many academic disciplines is at best to be mediocre at regurgitating talking points. They are really not even good at that, just highly aggressive. Once the current fashion changes, they will be out of a job because they will be unable to keep up with any new talking points.
Something askew, mentally, in my humble opinion. Her thinking is often so bizarre that I find her very, very frightening. Imagine her being in charge of social services, or in any position of power. And yes, "pathologically incapable...." sums it up. Well said, Ewen.
I believe anyone who says "sex work is work" should do it for a year. Penny could, and maybe write a book about her experiences? Assuming she survived - it is a desperately high risk activity, engaged in by the truly desperate. Or trafficked.
Maybe it's me desparately trying to see the good in people, but I honestly think this started out as the classic euphemism trap. By calling it sex work they wanted to give prostitutes back some dignity and then they fell for their own spin. And look where it got us.
Yes, anything one advocates for others, from prostitution to waterboarding, should be something one is willing to undertake oneself. And no choosey-choosey about the johns, Penny would have to take them all. (Years ago, a woman reporter for Ramparts magazine went to a brothel and subjected herself to being bought. The first guy wasn't so bad, he was young and attractive, then she had to take on a middle-aged businessman wearing an American flag pin on his lapel. And this was when it was just regular old PIV sex, no kink.)
Without whose permission? She knew what she was doing, she was an adult, and she exercised her choice. I think she said no to the businessman and the women told her, "We don't have that choice."
Ugh. To misquote Mr Loaf, I would do anything to make a good point but I wouldn't do that. Mind you she could have had way more repulsive than the middle aged bloke. I saw a documentary about a young woman who researched and involved herself in the swingers scene for TV. That left her messed up.
It seems that LP is completley unaware that generations of women before her were feminists and actually did quite a bit so that people like her could vote, get an educaiton, own property, not have to give into marital rape etc. As Julie points out, it didn;t start with #metoo which was just a moment, and not a movement. LP brand of feminism does nothing to serve women and everything to serve her own agenda and that of men. Virtue sugnalling at it's most epic. I very much enjoyed the "they" version though. Utterly ridiculous.
My favorite passage Julie Bindel quoted is: "“Nobody predicted that the greatest challenge to the social order in this century would be … women, girls and queer people of colour, finally coming together to talk about sexual violence and structural abuse of power.”
Like seriously? Has she even bothered to look at how closely young people - and namely women - got to toppling the regime in Iran twice this century and how massively the mullahs had to retaliate to regain control? And one of the key issues in these protests was and is the way how women are treated in Iran, and a key feature is women taking off their headscarfs as a sign of protest. THAT is a challenge to a social order. I don't want to downplay #metoo, and I draw my hat to all the women who had the courage to participate. But the actual consequences are not as great as Laurie Penny seems to believe.
Completely agree Chris, but that would require LP to actually do some research. #metoo was a great moment that united women and gave feminism a moment in the spotlight. It allowed some women to express what happened to them and it was brave in that it made them vulnerable, however, nothing like taking your headscarf off in Iran. I also do not like her use of intersectionality (which seems to be anyone who isn't a straight white male) as those groups have very different needs and lumping them together does none of them any favours. I think she is also getting feminism mixed up with antifa.
Thing is, I consider both events important. But I deeply detest hyperboles. Not every successful movement is a threat to a social order. (Cynically put: Among all the scumbags, who did they put in prison? Two Jewish guys and a black guy. Not #metoo's fault, but that tells you: Yeah, they sacrificed the usual scapegoats and moved on. Which is not to say that those convicted didn't deserve what they got, the racism becomes obvious by who was left out.) Laurie Penny should be old enough to understand that. She was just deprived of any chance to actually get an education. And the other thing is: In principle, feminism and antifa have great overlaps. It's just that Penny has no clue what either of them is about. Nor do most of those who call themselves antifa these days.
Did Julie complain? I thought it was hysterical. I actually did laugh out loud while I was reading it.
I honestly can't tell you how much I admire you. So kind and persevering in the face of abuse and censure from so many people. And beyond that so talented, because that was truly, truly funny.
I understand why you took it down, but frankly, it qualified as "fair use" because you transformed it. Thanks for writing it and giving us a laugh and making a great point at the same time :)
Truth be told, I would have told any publication to kindly bugger off had they asked me to use someone's "preferred pronouns". I have refused to write for publications who insist on using "genderneutral" neo-words and grammar before. It's a particularly tedious fashion among German speaking pseudoprogressives and makes texts hard to read for people who don't spend most of their time in highly politicised bubbles or don't read all that much to begin with. (In German, these forms are super-tedious)
But it's always a difficult judgement call. Can you get the piece published in correct and intelligible language or can you not? Do you have alternative platforms that allow such a great reviews as Julie Bindel's to reach a wider audience? Can you pay your bills doing that?
But Julie seems to have persisted, so that's a victory in itself. And her review is fantastic.
Slight tangent, but I can't abide publications or (and it's normally this) TV/radio programmes where Historians use the present tense to describe past events. To convey Relevance and Excitement. I believe it's called the Narrative Present or Dramatic Present. We are not children!!
Trust me, it's not because authors or historians think of the public as children. It's much easier for us to tell stories that way. (Not a historian but a journalist, where the same criticism applies quite often.)
Someday, I'll write from a radfem perspective what it felt like to be a survivor living through #MeToo, and how this particular brand of liberal feminist cognitive dissonance as exemplified by an author like Laurie Penny scuttled the movement from the inside out.
"Penny said in relation to the incident that the child should not “stare at other people’s genitals without their permission, because it’s rude.”"
This is why I'm not remotely interested in Laurie Penny's opinion on feminism or on much else, because anyone who takes the side of a flasher over his child victim can fuck off. She demonstrates a lack of basic human compassion, let alone any insight into feminism.
However, I'm very glad to see Julie Bindel effortlessly dismantle Penny's Titania McGrath-style idiocy. Laurie Penny will of course be pathologically-incapable of reflecting on any of it but there we go.
holy shit yes
Judging from the passages Julie Bindel quoted, Laurie Penny strikes me as rather undereducated.
I pity Penny's history teachers. Must feel they wasted their lives.
I pity her language teachers because it appears she can't read anything other than her own writing.
She seems very well educated to me, with what the academies of *ahem* “higher” learning have been churning out for the last few decades. There’s a dangerous lack of critical thinking going on in them there institutions. It’s so often the case now that many people’s level of education exceeds their intelligence!
Educated in what exactly? She very obviously and very proudly lacks the general knowledge and the at least basic familiarity with scientific methodology that shoud come with a college diploma. Yes, she is a tragic product of an academia that has chosen blissful ignorance over knowledge - and that most of all has violated the right of young people to at least a basic education. That her lack of education is not her own fault - or at least not primarily - does not change the fact that she is undereducated. It's just a more polite way of putting it. I don't deny that Laurie Penny is also a victim in this regard. But as she uses her ignorance as a weapon against other people, and makes a lot of money with it, I see no need to be polite to her.
I just pointed it out because she *is* educated, with fancy papers and all. This is the kind of educational product (?) that those institutions and those who consider themselves to be “elites” approve of. Are you still so unwaveringly faithful to the religion called science that you can’t see the manipulation that’s in play, and that we’re not getting science or education from or at them? They receive training there, yes, and that’s what’s being passed off as “education.” It’s pathetic.
We can agree that she's got some papers and that they're worth nothing. But the training they get in many academic disciplines is at best to be mediocre at regurgitating talking points. They are really not even good at that, just highly aggressive. Once the current fashion changes, they will be out of a job because they will be unable to keep up with any new talking points.
Part true believer, part economic reality. Her American audience would cancel her in a second.
I came here to pretty much make the same comment, so thanks for making it already Ewen :)
Something askew, mentally, in my humble opinion. Her thinking is often so bizarre that I find her very, very frightening. Imagine her being in charge of social services, or in any position of power. And yes, "pathologically incapable...." sums it up. Well said, Ewen.
They’s schtick is exhausting.
Ooo this is really good.
I believe anyone who says "sex work is work" should do it for a year. Penny could, and maybe write a book about her experiences? Assuming she survived - it is a desperately high risk activity, engaged in by the truly desperate. Or trafficked.
Exactly. Some of them are slaves for gods sake. It’s a long way from just a job, like any other job.
Maybe it's me desparately trying to see the good in people, but I honestly think this started out as the classic euphemism trap. By calling it sex work they wanted to give prostitutes back some dignity and then they fell for their own spin. And look where it got us.
Yes, anything one advocates for others, from prostitution to waterboarding, should be something one is willing to undertake oneself. And no choosey-choosey about the johns, Penny would have to take them all. (Years ago, a woman reporter for Ramparts magazine went to a brothel and subjected herself to being bought. The first guy wasn't so bad, he was young and attractive, then she had to take on a middle-aged businessman wearing an American flag pin on his lapel. And this was when it was just regular old PIV sex, no kink.)
Oh my lord. What was she thinking.
She wanted to write about the experience of women in brothels -- it was a good article.
I’m sure it was, but she put herself thru the experience of sex without permission and without choice. For an article.
Without whose permission? She knew what she was doing, she was an adult, and she exercised her choice. I think she said no to the businessman and the women told her, "We don't have that choice."
Ugh. To misquote Mr Loaf, I would do anything to make a good point but I wouldn't do that. Mind you she could have had way more repulsive than the middle aged bloke. I saw a documentary about a young woman who researched and involved herself in the swingers scene for TV. That left her messed up.
The ‘they/them’ version was hilarious though.
It seems that LP is completley unaware that generations of women before her were feminists and actually did quite a bit so that people like her could vote, get an educaiton, own property, not have to give into marital rape etc. As Julie points out, it didn;t start with #metoo which was just a moment, and not a movement. LP brand of feminism does nothing to serve women and everything to serve her own agenda and that of men. Virtue sugnalling at it's most epic. I very much enjoyed the "they" version though. Utterly ridiculous.
My favorite passage Julie Bindel quoted is: "“Nobody predicted that the greatest challenge to the social order in this century would be … women, girls and queer people of colour, finally coming together to talk about sexual violence and structural abuse of power.”
Like seriously? Has she even bothered to look at how closely young people - and namely women - got to toppling the regime in Iran twice this century and how massively the mullahs had to retaliate to regain control? And one of the key issues in these protests was and is the way how women are treated in Iran, and a key feature is women taking off their headscarfs as a sign of protest. THAT is a challenge to a social order. I don't want to downplay #metoo, and I draw my hat to all the women who had the courage to participate. But the actual consequences are not as great as Laurie Penny seems to believe.
Completely agree Chris, but that would require LP to actually do some research. #metoo was a great moment that united women and gave feminism a moment in the spotlight. It allowed some women to express what happened to them and it was brave in that it made them vulnerable, however, nothing like taking your headscarf off in Iran. I also do not like her use of intersectionality (which seems to be anyone who isn't a straight white male) as those groups have very different needs and lumping them together does none of them any favours. I think she is also getting feminism mixed up with antifa.
Thing is, I consider both events important. But I deeply detest hyperboles. Not every successful movement is a threat to a social order. (Cynically put: Among all the scumbags, who did they put in prison? Two Jewish guys and a black guy. Not #metoo's fault, but that tells you: Yeah, they sacrificed the usual scapegoats and moved on. Which is not to say that those convicted didn't deserve what they got, the racism becomes obvious by who was left out.) Laurie Penny should be old enough to understand that. She was just deprived of any chance to actually get an education. And the other thing is: In principle, feminism and antifa have great overlaps. It's just that Penny has no clue what either of them is about. Nor do most of those who call themselves antifa these days.
She's got a touch of The Moran's
Did Julie complain? I thought it was hysterical. I actually did laugh out loud while I was reading it.
I honestly can't tell you how much I admire you. So kind and persevering in the face of abuse and censure from so many people. And beyond that so talented, because that was truly, truly funny.
I understand why you took it down, but frankly, it qualified as "fair use" because you transformed it. Thanks for writing it and giving us a laugh and making a great point at the same time :)
may not have been Julie. But I definitely should have asked permission. Kicking myself!
These things happen. Nobody is perfect.
Some of the sentences -- those with 'preferred pronouns' -- sounded absolutely preposterous. It's a brilliant article.
HAHAHA omg I couldn't make it past the second use of 'they'. Please stop this carousel of horror, I want to get off!
Truth be told, I would have told any publication to kindly bugger off had they asked me to use someone's "preferred pronouns". I have refused to write for publications who insist on using "genderneutral" neo-words and grammar before. It's a particularly tedious fashion among German speaking pseudoprogressives and makes texts hard to read for people who don't spend most of their time in highly politicised bubbles or don't read all that much to begin with. (In German, these forms are super-tedious)
But it's always a difficult judgement call. Can you get the piece published in correct and intelligible language or can you not? Do you have alternative platforms that allow such a great reviews as Julie Bindel's to reach a wider audience? Can you pay your bills doing that?
But Julie seems to have persisted, so that's a victory in itself. And her review is fantastic.
Slight tangent, but I can't abide publications or (and it's normally this) TV/radio programmes where Historians use the present tense to describe past events. To convey Relevance and Excitement. I believe it's called the Narrative Present or Dramatic Present. We are not children!!
Trust me, it's not because authors or historians think of the public as children. It's much easier for us to tell stories that way. (Not a historian but a journalist, where the same criticism applies quite often.)
Anyone but Julie, and Pink News would have written at least three columns about this by now.
This cynic in me suspects this is a complaint to create stories about the complaint.
Oh sure. How else could you get attention for a book by an overrated and undereducated identitarian?
Isn't Laurie Penny British? Why is they using the word 'indigenous'? Does they know what it means?
Do you honestly expect an identitarian millenial to even own a dictionary?
LOL, how foolish of me. Words mean whatever they choose them to mean.
And we can not stress THEY enough in this context.
My brain read Graham's "they/them" version in a Cornish accent 🤣🤣🤣
I doubt somehow that Penny has been emptying bins anywhere - not even in Hollywood.
Someday, I'll write from a radfem perspective what it felt like to be a survivor living through #MeToo, and how this particular brand of liberal feminist cognitive dissonance as exemplified by an author like Laurie Penny scuttled the movement from the inside out.
‘They’ needs their stupid head examined. Embarrassing.