I received the following message this morning. ‘Apologies for messaging you out of the blue. I was a friend of John Hein's for over 30 years. He wasn't a paedophile. He had no interest in children at all, sexually or otherwise. He was just 16 years old when he joined PIE, and to the best of my knowledge, it was because he was a young gay man trying to find others like himself.
Hi Graham. Unfortunately John Hein's links to PIE go further than simply his own membership "as a poor young gay lad looking for love". Ian Campbell Dunn, an Edinburgh resident was one of the founding members of PIE. After PIE was disbanded he acted as a 'postbox' for 'Minor Problems' (also linked to paedophiles). 'Scotsgay' is a magazine that John Hein founded in 1994, which he edited from this date up until 2006. I have linked here an article from the self same magazine, which is an obituary to Mr. Dunn written shortly after his death in 1998. It is not clear who actually wrote the article; however John Hein has added a "personal note" after the obituary. (Since Mr. Hein was also the editor he would have had final say on the obituary aswell).
The obituary itself makes clear references to Mr. Dunn's involvement with PIE and Minor Problems, but brushes this off with "he wasn't really a paodophile, he was just interested in giving everyone a voice".
Mr. Hein's own piece after the obituary, ends with the following rather ominous statement:
'His (Dunn's) funeral in the Mansfield Place Church which he worked so hard to save was well attended.
Amongst the hundreds of mourners were people from all walks of life. From retired clerics to practising politicians. From homosexual campaigners to police officers (one Chief Inspector represented the local police force whilst others attended incognito). Some were obviously uncomfortable at the unconventionality of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence's celebration of Ian's life.
One young man turned up to exorcise his own ghosts: he claims that Ian raped him when he was 15 (although I have always believed that it was more a case of mixed signals than any mens rea on Ian's part). He came, he said, "just to make sure". '
The simple brushing off of this allegation is quite extraordinary.
If I were you, I would continue to look into this Mr. Hein. Anybody who can speak for a PIE founder is, in my view, very very VERY dodgy.
I'm sorry but I have a less charitable view of John Hein as a result of "Dave"'s intervention. We have no idea who "Dave" is, do we? So I think: ' "Dave" WOULD say that, wouldn't he?" He obviously knows something about John Hein which he doesn't want the world to know. Dave is putting the curtain back in place to hide truly "unmentionable" pedophile thoughts of John Hein. All PIE members were secretive. I think that there is more, not less, to find out about John Hein.
I speak as the ex-wife of a transsexual man who hid his secrets for 60 years and would have died without revealing anything if I had not forced him to reveal a psychiatrist's report.
But it is charitable to draw a line under this episode until more evidence comes to light as other PIE members eventually die.
Yes. Very good to see that you can consider the evidence and be respectful. It’s difficult to back down, especially when i see many TRAs instinct to throw insults. But this seems like the right thing to do here.
I'm not fully informed on pie or this john hein, but I wonder if this person has an opinion on puberty blockers since they say "If we can argue - rightfully - that a young person can't make good lifelong decisions at that age"
John Hein was an apologist for Ian Campbell Dunn, a co-founder of PIE LONG after he was a "young" man. His magazine Scotsgay ran an obituary to Dunn in 1998, when Hein would have been between 40 and 41 years old.
No, I think it's fair to say that if someone chooses to associate with paedos they're either a paedo, or at best a paedo sympathiser. And we should definitely be asking who is Dave and what are HIS reasons for trying to minimise PIE behaviours?
However, it's your space and you must only have what you are comfortable with here, of course. Thanks for the update.
This is the problem, the dilemma, even, of highlighting individuals around this whole issue. There is often more than one side to the story, beyond what people post on SM. Who knows the truth, in this particular instance?
I agree. What kinds of friends would allow a friend or acquaintance's connection to an organization such as PIE be discussed freely without claiming they were innocent of paedophilia if they'd never seen the behavior? It's not as if many are open about the predilection - with the possible exception of those who claim "NOMAP" status (which only reinforces this point).
This is a decent and considerate response. This kind of 'changing your mind based on evidence' is an attitude which the TRAs would do well to adopt.
This is a very compassionate reasoned response. Thanks Graham.
Hi Graham. Unfortunately John Hein's links to PIE go further than simply his own membership "as a poor young gay lad looking for love". Ian Campbell Dunn, an Edinburgh resident was one of the founding members of PIE. After PIE was disbanded he acted as a 'postbox' for 'Minor Problems' (also linked to paedophiles). 'Scotsgay' is a magazine that John Hein founded in 1994, which he edited from this date up until 2006. I have linked here an article from the self same magazine, which is an obituary to Mr. Dunn written shortly after his death in 1998. It is not clear who actually wrote the article; however John Hein has added a "personal note" after the obituary. (Since Mr. Hein was also the editor he would have had final say on the obituary aswell).
The obituary itself makes clear references to Mr. Dunn's involvement with PIE and Minor Problems, but brushes this off with "he wasn't really a paodophile, he was just interested in giving everyone a voice".
Mr. Hein's own piece after the obituary, ends with the following rather ominous statement:
'His (Dunn's) funeral in the Mansfield Place Church which he worked so hard to save was well attended.
Amongst the hundreds of mourners were people from all walks of life. From retired clerics to practising politicians. From homosexual campaigners to police officers (one Chief Inspector represented the local police force whilst others attended incognito). Some were obviously uncomfortable at the unconventionality of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence's celebration of Ian's life.
One young man turned up to exorcise his own ghosts: he claims that Ian raped him when he was 15 (although I have always believed that it was more a case of mixed signals than any mens rea on Ian's part). He came, he said, "just to make sure". '
The simple brushing off of this allegation is quite extraordinary.
If I were you, I would continue to look into this Mr. Hein. Anybody who can speak for a PIE founder is, in my view, very very VERY dodgy.
http://www.scotsgay.co.uk/io20a/obit.html
I'm sorry but I have a less charitable view of John Hein as a result of "Dave"'s intervention. We have no idea who "Dave" is, do we? So I think: ' "Dave" WOULD say that, wouldn't he?" He obviously knows something about John Hein which he doesn't want the world to know. Dave is putting the curtain back in place to hide truly "unmentionable" pedophile thoughts of John Hein. All PIE members were secretive. I think that there is more, not less, to find out about John Hein.
I speak as the ex-wife of a transsexual man who hid his secrets for 60 years and would have died without revealing anything if I had not forced him to reveal a psychiatrist's report.
But it is charitable to draw a line under this episode until more evidence comes to light as other PIE members eventually die.
Exactly what Rory said, but all credit to you for giving people the benefit of the doubt, even if they don't deserve it.
You have a Class Graham ❤️👍 worth learning this quality
Yes. Very good to see that you can consider the evidence and be respectful. It’s difficult to back down, especially when i see many TRAs instinct to throw insults. But this seems like the right thing to do here.
I'm not fully informed on pie or this john hein, but I wonder if this person has an opinion on puberty blockers since they say "If we can argue - rightfully - that a young person can't make good lifelong decisions at that age"
John Hein was an apologist for Ian Campbell Dunn, a co-founder of PIE LONG after he was a "young" man. His magazine Scotsgay ran an obituary to Dunn in 1998, when Hein would have been between 40 and 41 years old.
No, I think it's fair to say that if someone chooses to associate with paedos they're either a paedo, or at best a paedo sympathiser. And we should definitely be asking who is Dave and what are HIS reasons for trying to minimise PIE behaviours?
However, it's your space and you must only have what you are comfortable with here, of course. Thanks for the update.
This is the problem, the dilemma, even, of highlighting individuals around this whole issue. There is often more than one side to the story, beyond what people post on SM. Who knows the truth, in this particular instance?
I agree. What kinds of friends would allow a friend or acquaintance's connection to an organization such as PIE be discussed freely without claiming they were innocent of paedophilia if they'd never seen the behavior? It's not as if many are open about the predilection - with the possible exception of those who claim "NOMAP" status (which only reinforces this point).
The paedophiles are well and truly involved in the movement. there is only one reason why some men want to keep children looking young.
That was the decent thing to do - may he rest in peace.
This one is sick as well https://www.pressreader.com/
we're just sorting out a way of getting invites to people. watch this space!
I’ve not had any links. I’m a paid subscriber so have major FOMO
Me neither, I've got FOMO.
Me too 😭
I’m not seeing a problem. I’m able to open the links (to this article and others)