57 Comments

Because those women in that room did not realise that what they were doing there was colluding in the demeaning of them as women and lesbians, and they did not get up and walk away.

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And those women there are mature women. By being there they are betraying women who are less powerful and less mature; instead basking in their own self-aggrandisement. Women could help other women if they chose to. It's shameful how many do not

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Yes, I guess female socialization runs incredibly deep. Even at the highest echelons of power women won't or can't call out men's bullshit.

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They do know though and that's even worse than those two imposters sitting up there taking over in classic male behaviour! Arrogance and betrayal in one room!! I bet those two were wriggling with fetishised pleasure!! 😡

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Who knows? There might have been some wriggling, but they're used to getting their own way, they expect it and no one is disappointing them.

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Or maybe they don't care, because they are too cowardly or want to keep their steady paychecks...

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May 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022

Funny how they never seem to want to be waitresses or childminders...

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Indeed, and if they're going to be nurses or care home attendants it'll be strictly for the purpose of getting access to vulnerable females...

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I was about to say - let's be happy if they don't want to be child minders.

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Exactly, small mercies, last thing you’d want is one of these guys with unfettered access to children!

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May 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022

Incredible mansplaining- dudes in dresses and lipstick, one of whom supports maiming children at any age. Unbelievable, and the women who support these clowns. We will not forget who they are.

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Indeed we won't. We know which famous women betrayed us and which ones stood up to the baying mob. As for the anonymous ones ,they'll just slink off into the darkness ,hoping no one remembers which side they supported !! Traitors.👎 However Heroes (like JKR ,Posie Parker and many many more[ not forgetting Graham ] ) There should be a ROLL of HONOUR for them 👏👏👏👍

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May 13, 2022·edited May 13, 2022

Those of us on the right side of this will remember and hopefully pass it along. I will defend women's spaces at all costs, and as we share it with people, the absurdity of this, we point them at those people you mentioned, and it will grow. I got here by way of Magdalen Berns, and am so incredibly thankful to her and them. I ask everyone the Helen Staniland question, and that's like our secret handshake. Those who are with us answer it the right way. We will never relent. ❤️

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You know, no one in the US seems to remember that Biden was on the wrong side of history during the Clarence Thomas SCOTUS hearings. He knew that Thomas had a reputation for being a porn addict, in fact every member of congress (mostly lawyers) knew this. Biden didn't want to allow other women to corroborate Anita Hill's testimony so he disallowed additional witnesses. He didn't want to be known as chairing the committee who tanked a Black man for SCOTUS and was happy to throw AH to the wolves. He was cringe-worthy as Obama's VP and I truly couldn't believe it when the Dems (my party) ran him for pres. But then..literally every other Democratic candidate had pledged allegiance to woo-woo gender identity/queer theory $$$.

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I couldn't believe it either. His first executive oder, or at least one of the first, was to allow boys on girls teams and in their locker rooms. I always wonder how he explains this to his grand daughter. That is the day I stopped being a democrat, when he and his lot abandoned women and our hard fought gains, and they started worshipping men in dresses. Their new religion hates women, and children, since they are willing to destroy their normal development, dam the consequences. What a bitter disappointment he has been.

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Biden, Harris, Warren, Sanders, Cruz, Trump...every candidate for 2020 election...cynics all.

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Most reasonable people don't have a literal billion dollars lying around to be able to run for the highest office.

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Absolutely blatant. Go Allison!

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How are you finding Allison’s tribunal. Wondering if the other side is using up all the time on purpose. I can’t follow where they’re at with everything

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Are you following along on Mumsnet Feminism Sex and Gender? Good analysis there

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I’ll take a look, thanks for that

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Everything Allison says makes so much sense.

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It is the QC cross examining her I can’t make enough sense of

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Yes, I guess they are trying to bamboozle with all the detail... eg all that stuff on fee income and what year, her replies were so patient and measured hut it sounded like he was trying to catch her out. I have to admit I just dip in and out on Twitter, haven't been following very closely. It would be an absolute TRAVESTY if the judge does not find in her favour.

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Allison’s barrister BC is on now, finding his style much better, much easier to follow - noticed Sarah Phillimore’s twitter account is also now tweeting- well worth reading her tweets as very clear

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Such in-your-face insulting behaviour. How can these men be so rude & insensitive to the history & reality of women? It’s like being psych raped.

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I’ve changed my mind. It isn’t “...like being psych-raped.”. It IS psychological rape.

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The trans movement succeeds once again in pitting women against women with their deception. We all need to have the guts to stand up and say enough is enough. You’re not women, end of, rather than playing along with their fantasies.

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Yep, exactly this. End of.

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The same damn thing happened up here too last month. Feel sorry for the wee lesbians tbh, with this shenanigans going on. This time, front and centred.... https://twitter.com/UoEStaffPride/status/1517817248576151552

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May 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022

At least the replies are mostly not having it.

Graham may know that one wonderfully tweeted:

He's not a lesbian, tho'.

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That photo makes me think "Troon grifters" to the tune of "Moon river."

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May 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022

Ha! You using the whole fist there doc ?

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Grrrrr. Before it was just panels of straight men making decisions for women. Now it's panels of straight men in womanface. SMH.

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It's almost like those particular lesbians have some kind of, I dunno, like, male entitlement or something. But that can't be right, for they are ladies and ladies don't have male entitlement.

It's so very odd. And so very fucking 'trans'parent

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Who's the gentleman on the left?

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deletedMay 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022
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And notice that his Fortune photo is heavily photoshopped compared to the giant chin at the White Trash House.

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May 12, 2022·edited May 12, 2022

I work in a male dominated work place where the senior management positions are mostly men, with the top two tiers being exclusively and historically male. Often a woman in our organisaiton is the only female in a meeting or one of just two or three (unless it is HR, or administrative related). This meeting looks like every meeting I have ever known at work despite the women being the majority - men holding court while women listen (and when the women talk they are rarely listened to).

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May 13, 2022·edited May 13, 2022

Ha ha! Yes, it's spot on. I've shared it a few times myself :) Except in real life of course, the men just stare at you like you're mad, and then do one of two things - 1) carry on like you never spoke and then one of them says the exact same thing you did and they act like he's scored the winning goal in the World Cup or 2) quiz you to death on very basic things and mansplain some things to you because they haven't caught up to where you are in thinking because they assumed a lower level of knowledge...ten minutes later they start to ask the correct questions (onmes they would ask straight away if I was a man), and then grudgingly say... "Oh, I think that could work". It took me a long time to work out that the problem wasn't me. I thought I was stupid or not able to communicate my ideas properly for years. Sex matters.

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🙂 Before I had been "deplatformed" from Twitter for running afoul of the "Transish Inquisition" I had likewise shared it more than a few times in various tweets.

But I see from the tweet that the cartoon is over 30 years old - so it must speak to a fairly ubiquitous, and quite problematic, bit of sexism, some fairly typical stereotypes. Though stereotypes do tend to be quite accurate, at least when applied to some segments of any given population:

https://spsp.org/news-center/blog/stereotype-accuracy-response

Some women are flighty, vapid, and illogical, and some men are thugs and rapists prone to violence. The problem isn't in those stereotypes themselves, but in thinking that they apply to ALL women, and to ALL men.

But part of the problem seems to be that each sex - which indeed does matter - is, in general, more focused on particular applications of reason and logic that may be foreign to the thinking of the other sex. An amusing case of that from Richard Feynman who, one might reasonably suggest, was a bit of a sexist himself ... 😉:

"She figured out where the intersection was. It turned out that one girl was explaining to the other how to knit argyle socks. I, therefore, did learn a lesson: The female mind is capable of understanding analytic geometry. Those people who have for years been insisting (in the face of all obvious evidence to the contrary) that the male and female are equally capable of rational thought may have something."

http://www.feynman.com/science/what-is-science/

Though there's something to be said for the other side of the coin. Have yet to read Koertge's & Patai's "Professing Feminism" myself - on my "To Read" list - but the former has a rather brilliant essay where she takes a strip off far too many feminists for their "Repudiation of Logic":

“Unfortunately, the predominant feminist response has been to attack logic and other traditional canons of rationality as sexist. .... I wish I could end the story of the feminist critique of logic on this happy note. Unfortunately, however, some feminists have claimed that not just the homework exercises but the very enterprise of characterizing the formal structure of logical inference cannot be separated from sexism, racism, and totalitarianism. .... To tell a young woman to resist logic because it is a tool of domination and will poison her mind is to put yet another barrier in her path.”

https://philpapers.org/rec/KOETFC

Unfortunately, or not, virtually all "sides" contribute to the clusterfucks on so many issues - sex and gender in particular. As Pogo once put it, "We have met the enemy. And he is us."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogo_(comic_strip)#%22We_have_met_the_enemy_and_he_is_us.%22

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Except that the experience I outlined above is real. I am not vapid and illogical and have a masters in business. I have watched men with half my knowledge and expereince get promotions over me and other women they do not deserve. I have watched women, who are pretty and play the game well (agreeing with the boss) get ahead and be promoted above their level of competence and I have watched capable women, including myself be kept back all the time. I have witnessed the above scenario I outlined to other women and I have lived it. You can throw theoretical discussion around all you like, but my experience and that of other women is real. It is termed "hepeating" which is crass but sums it up:

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-hepeating-2017-9?r=US&IR=T

In a male dominated workplace this kind of thing gets reinforced by the majority and it harms women's careers. If you don't get recognised for your contribution, then you do not get the rewards - materially or emotionally in terms of feeling valued. When I have spoken about this to male friends both at work adn out they poo-poo it becuase they do not see it. Then you are accused of being too sensitive.

I agree about the wider point fo stereotyping - there are silly and vapid women and there are silly and vapid men too, and there are thuggish men but that does not change the reality for millions of women who get passed over all the time because of their sex.

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Hope I didn't give the impression that I thought your experiences weren't real as I most certainly don't. I've often read of biases against women and blacks in various hiring and employment situations.

In a personal context, my ex had worked in Canada's civil service and had described a case of a black woman from Senegal working there who wound up with a lower salary and degree of responsibility than my ex. Maybe partly due to my ex being white and French-Canadian, but that's not much justification. Seem to recollect my ex had tried to rectify that situation to some extent though not sure of the details.

Likewise on the "vapid and illogical", although it's great that we both agree that that can apply equally to some segments of both men's and women's groups; likewise on various other "character flaws".

But I certainly wouldn't argue or even suggest that it's fair to the women involved, or even beneficial to society in general to have women "get passed over all the time because of their sex". One of my more treasured possessions is a 1945 book by Nellie McClung, one of Canada's most famous suffragettes, that had been passed on from my maternal grandmother. But McClung had quite reasonably argued that, "no nation rises higher than its women":

https://isabelmetcalfe.ca/enduring-spirit-of-the-famous-5/

Partly why most Muslim countries are such basket-cases. But generally speaking, it's of limited social benefit to have the less qualified person with the greater responsibility, regardless of the individual's sex. Quite often, the best man for the job is a woman ... 🙂

However, none of that says much if anything against the arguments of Koertge and Patai about the "feminist repudiation of logic", about the fact that many Women Studies programs are rife with a "virulent anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment driving many of the professors, staff and students":

https://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2009/07/27/professing-feminism-noh/

As I've argued here and elsewhere, there is no shortage of justified grievances of the type that you've described to rally the feminist troops. However, there's also some justification for arguing that postmodernist claptrap has pretty much if not entirely rotted out the viable core of feminism which really helps no one, least of all the women that feminism was, ostensibly, most designed to help.

You may wish to take a gander at the efforts of one Kathleen Stock on that score:

"What I do find interesting, though, is how things went so badly wrong: the causes, not the reasons. I’ve had a lot of time to think about this. One big question for this newsletter will be: how did mainstream feminism come to embrace what I’m calling the stupid story [transgenderism?], so that many feminists ended up cancelling themselves out of politically effective existence? Effectively, the stupid story functions, for mainstream feminism, as a reductio ad absurdum: it reduces most of contemporary feminism to risible absurdity, necessitating urgent reflection on the tenability of prior commitments to explain how the absurdity ever got such a firm grip."

https://kathleenstock.substack.com/p/feminist-reboot-camp?s=r

I wish her well in those endeavors, although I'm not entirely sure that her intellectual honesty is up to the task; time will telll.

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It's open misogyny too. Men getting their kicks out of humiliating women.

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Clymer is an infamous misogynist, who has made LARPing as a woman into a career. https://www.thecut.com/2014/10/you-want-to-be-a-male-feminist-maybe-dont.html

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Thanks for the article at The Cut - quite a good one, particularly as it links to two others by Darlena Cunha:

https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/men-feminism_b_3275303

https://www.parentwin.com/2013/05/clyming-walls-of-feminism-critical-look.html

Clymer comes off, at best, as rather heavy-handed, but even Cunha more or less concedes that he may have, or has had - at least before he "transitioned" from Rambo to a "transgender woman", a point or two. Cunha's closing paragraph, in both articles, which seems the crux of the matter:

"In the end, it's up to you to decide. Charles Clymer, feminist hero, villain, or just some guy on the internet? But when you do decide, think on the macro level. What do these in-fights say about feminism as a whole, and how does your decision on this microcosm play into your feelings about the movement on the whole?"

"Feminism" - in general - has no shortage of justified grievances to rally the troops. However, it also has no shortage of highly questionable ideological cant and dogma that often vitiates the best efforts of them. Philosopher Amia Srinivasan of the University of Oxford (so hardly chopped liver):

"The objection I have in mind is that feminist philosophy rests on a mistake: namely, a conflation of epistemology and politics. Philosophy, at least on the conventional understanding, is an epistemic project, a project oriented toward truth or knowledge, and thus committed to the kind of unfettered inquiry that is conducive to the acquisition of truth and knowledge. Feminism meanwhile is a political project, a project oriented toward the emancipation of women and the dissolution of patriarchy. How then could something be at once philosophy and feminist? How could the unencumbered pursuit of knowledge itself have a political orientation? In other words how could there really be feminist philosophy?"

Sadly, "political projects" in general tend not to be overly concerned about "philosophical niceties" - such as the "Truth" - to their ultimate detriment. They are often little better than Lysenkoism - the "deliberate distortion of scientific facts or theories for purposes that are deemed politically, religiously or socially desirable."

And sadly, much of feminism is no exception to that rule, particularly in its endorsement and promotion of egregiously unscientific definitions for sex and gender. Given that those concepts are largely what undergirds all of feminism, one might argue that that is something of a "fatal flaw".

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SUGAR, FRUCTOSE, CITRIC ACID, CONTAINS LESS THAN 2% OF ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR, CALCIUM PHOSPHATE, ARTIFICIAL COLOR, RED 40, BHT (PRESERVES FRESHNESS)

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Black lesbian listens politely while white male who pioneered fast-tracking homeless kids to medical & surgical transition explains about being a lesbian.

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