It's interesting that so many automatically assumed Bette was making an anti-trans statement. She was commenting on the overturning of Roe v Wade. Trans wasn't mentioned at all but so many TRAs had to make it about that. Macy OTOH just said what we all know to be true.
Bette was also mentioning where our names - our rightful names by birthright, to describe our reality, our bodies and where we are in our life path - are being removed and handed to men. We get referred to as sexual body parts and functions and then accused of reducing being a woman to them!
Pointing that out gets the trans activists billygoat as its strikes right at the heart of what they are doing and demanding.
Trans activists NEED to un-name the half of the human race who can only get pregnant and give birth, who are physically weaker than the other half (but not mentally weaker) to ensure that no pushback occurs.
Un-name us and its way easier to shut us up, dismiss us and remove our rights.
Yeah but we're on to them !! We have brains just as good as any man !! The myth that women are less intelligent than men has long since been dispelled !!
All the news about Roe v Wade has suddenly made the Democrats realise what a WOMAN is💡💡💡and for once men pretending to be women are not at the heart of the conversation. They must be feeling left out of the abortion debate , although I've i no doubt that they'll soon be claiming that it only affects THEIR " abortion rights "!! 🙊🙈😨
No Katy. They don't want the same rights we have, they want more rights. As M-F they already had those rights and more because their sex was not a hindrence to those rights being applied equally. They want the right to women's safe spaces, our healthcare, our language, our sports and any services reserved for biological women. Some also want access to our bodies and are using the Trans agenda to do so adn worse than that, people like you are trying to stop women from having a voice and speaking up about their concerns. If people like you considered yourself a woman you'd share our concerns but you have the privilege and luxury of not actually being subjected to these indignities as you are not bologically female. Your tweet proves your ignorance. You're just a beard bro in make-up.
It was to make a point. The irony being that if he was a woman then he would be responding very differently and also for others who may not be familair with him to realise which tweet my comment related to.
Also I've slept on this and I do not mind refering to him as Katy. Males have often had female names in the past with no trans agenda and it is not the name I object to, it's claiming to be a woman and trampling over women's rights and all the other crap that goes with it like the medicalisation of children, the entrenching of gender stereotypes, the normalisation of "queer" and sexualised behaviour in public and the trashing of boundaries. The name is small fry and I get some people will say "Oh, but that is part of it". Maybe, but to me it's the very least part. Folks can name themselves what they want, they just can't claim to be a woman. A name, make-up, clothing and an inner feeling compared to a gender stereotype do not a woman make.
"Oh we are fine with you using the word women, unless 'trans inclusive' language is needed." Which is like every time it concerns anything having to do with female bodies, healthcare for women, birth, abortion, women's rights, women's suffrage, sports, within medical bodies, by health authorities and agencies, sporting bodies and just about everything else.
It's funny and like clockwork how patronising it is. As if, aw bless, you can use your 'special word' for yourself if you really insist love. They're fine with it when they decide and on their terms, and that's all that matters. They are informing us we can have our needs unless they want them. They seem to run the gamut from overtly aggressive to passive aggressive and all mad aggressions in between.
It's fine you wanting to breathe and all but we're going to steal all your air and stick a bag over your head to make sure we get what we want.
The fact that most are calling Macy snd Bette "nazis and fascists" says it all. One is a woman of colour, the other is a Jewish woman. There cannot be anything more hostile or degrading said by all those wangledicks, knobend jockeys and barbietacklers (names from my nieces!!) who will never come close to the talent and womenhood shown by these two women.
Bloody hell, Willoughby writes like he's tripping, his paranoia has gone into overdrive and he's grasping at anything. What an arsehole, the same for all these fucking loud mouthed misogynists.
Regardless of whether he wrote the words himself, do you believe he is in agreement with them? Presumably, he thinks he is, irrespective of how unreasonable, excessive and risible they are
After years of incredible women and brave male allies manning the baracades, the message has started to get through to the extent that celebs now feel safe to speak out. Its a shame it has taken this long but we have to take the wins. The spell is broken.
A lot, I hope. Fear of what they know they'll encounter stops people from expressing what they believe. That has a general application, but here the consequences in terms of a reaction is colossally disproportionate and sometimes borderline psychotic. These two have done something bold, and I doubt many like them will do the same until they've gauged the kind of response Bette and Macy get.
That is a lot of followers. I'm so glad they're not yielding to the pressure in them to conform. I hope they're getting plenty of encouragement as well as criticism.
Has anyone read this article? 'Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism' by
Anne A. Lawrence? Came across the link on twitter. Really interesting. An explanation for the weird disproportionate rage. Not an excuse for it but an explanation at least.
I haven't read it but it can only explain a tiny bit of the aggression and reality denial we witness. There are many other forces at play here, and many, many other participants, who clearly are not transgender themselves but share the same rage. It's certainly an important issue to look at, don't get me wrong, but on a societal level I am afraid it isn't an explanation for what we see.
I utterly agree. The narcissism is just a starting point. But I'm arming myself with as much info I can get. If I can't understand it, I can't fight it. I won't sink to their level and fight with hate and no logic.
I do get that. Know your foe - that never hurts. Also, I hope that you won't have to deal with any of the extreme nutcases the article describes. It's just tedious and there hardly ever is any point to it, on a personal level at least.
It’s a paper commenting on the unhinged reactions against a particular book on transgender identity (previously known as transsexualism) published in the aughts. Lawrence proposes that one factor explaining the excessive lengths the book's trans opponents went to to punish the author might be narcissistic rage. The idea being that an insult to the self-esteem of someone with a false sense of identity can trigger narcissistic rage, a fanatic need for revenge and a compulsion to obliterate the offender. Paraphrasing the German psychologist (H. Kohut) who coined the term—There is utter disregard for reasonable limitations and a boundless wish to redress an injury and to obtain revenge. The narcissistically injured person cannot rest until he has blotted out someone who dared to disagree with him.
I went down the rabbit hole on the whole Alice Dreger dispute at one time but what this paper introduced was Kohut's description of narcissistic injury—that if you are someone with a false sense of self or a false identity, any ordinary disagreement is enough to unhinge your fundamental being. You become consumed with needing to annihilate the source of that discomfort.
Oh, quite certainly. Whatever one thinks of transsexuals or the wider part of the T alphabet soup, cognitive dissonance is the core of their own images of themselves. They know full well, even though they surpress it as hard as they can, that they are not who they see themselves at. Hence their propensity for Creeds, their insistence as neologisms and their dependence on outside affirmation. It's quite hard to keep up the immersion even for themselves, so anyone who might challenge that is seen as an enemy, and forceful reactions are to be expected, up to being entirely irrational in some cases. Only relatively few seem to come to terms with themselves and their environment by extention, eventually. See the studies about mental health in transsexuals even after transition.
This being said, this mechanism alone does not explain why this debate is so lopsided and so violent from their side. Within their own side, they are only a minority. Most activists and ardent adherers to transideology do not even have GD, or do even see themselves as "trans", whatever that means. Yet, many of these react just as irrationally to violent, and even the more rational ones among outspoken trans supporters repeat the same tales that can only spring from the cognitive dissonance in which transsexuals live practically by definition.
The concept of narcisstic rage can only explain one part of that. It is important to have that explanation, by the way. What I find at least as important to understand how that reaction can so easily be transferred to other people as seems to be the case. This seems to be a societal or political question. I don't think it is unique in and of itself. We can certainy find many similar situations throughout history and even in the present. But the radicality seems to be very rare and may even be unique.
Also, there is the question of whether the uncritical affirmation by supporters can and does instill narcisstic rage - or whatever we want to call it - in people or deepens it. I suspect that is even very likely, but I'm no expert and have not done any research nor would I even know how to investigate that question on my own. Maybe the paper addresses that question.
No, it's dated 2008 so it predates the recent increase in trans ID and gender ideology, and accompanying legislation—even predates the Obergefell decision, and legalization of same-sex marriage in the US, for that matter.
Exulansic has a great take on Sillybilly on her Odysee channel with two videos worth watching, first, 'Weeping Willoughby and #notallmen' and then, 'India doesn't like hearing 'no' '. Both worth a look.
Just back to add, also worth a look is today's video on Exulansic, a hearbreaking interview with a detransitioner called Raven. Absolutely horrifying tale of medical neglect and misinformation and a very revealing narrative about how Raven, as a lesbian, first got into the whole 'trans' thing. I think more needs to be told about the root causes of the trans position as then you can clearly map the route of influence and coercion and stop seeing it as some inevitable, immutable essence.
If this was all "anti-trans panic fake nonsense" and just case of using "trans inclusive language", why do we never see "sperm makers" or "penis havers"?
Rory / Panty and the rest of these TRA creeps can back-peddle all they like, but we've got the receipts!
Even the Guardian are calling out this deranged ideology now:
I'm so happy. Can we have a month dedicated to TERF pride?
2023: Year of Women
We're owed a decade at least!
Lets add a few zeros onto that 10 shall we?
Seconded
At least two.
:-D minimum a couple of millennia. End of!
Why not? As many as we like 💪🏼✊🏼
Seconded.
It's interesting that so many automatically assumed Bette was making an anti-trans statement. She was commenting on the overturning of Roe v Wade. Trans wasn't mentioned at all but so many TRAs had to make it about that. Macy OTOH just said what we all know to be true.
Bette was also mentioning where our names - our rightful names by birthright, to describe our reality, our bodies and where we are in our life path - are being removed and handed to men. We get referred to as sexual body parts and functions and then accused of reducing being a woman to them!
Pointing that out gets the trans activists billygoat as its strikes right at the heart of what they are doing and demanding.
Trans activists NEED to un-name the half of the human race who can only get pregnant and give birth, who are physically weaker than the other half (but not mentally weaker) to ensure that no pushback occurs.
Un-name us and its way easier to shut us up, dismiss us and remove our rights.
Yeah but we're on to them !! We have brains just as good as any man !! The myth that women are less intelligent than men has long since been dispelled !!
All the news about Roe v Wade has suddenly made the Democrats realise what a WOMAN is💡💡💡and for once men pretending to be women are not at the heart of the conversation. They must be feeling left out of the abortion debate , although I've i no doubt that they'll soon be claiming that it only affects THEIR " abortion rights "!! 🙊🙈😨
Yes, it was lovely to hear from both Betty and Macy.
The creeps are out in force but calling a Jewish woman and a black woman Nazi looks pretty shite.
No Katy. They don't want the same rights we have, they want more rights. As M-F they already had those rights and more because their sex was not a hindrence to those rights being applied equally. They want the right to women's safe spaces, our healthcare, our language, our sports and any services reserved for biological women. Some also want access to our bodies and are using the Trans agenda to do so adn worse than that, people like you are trying to stop women from having a voice and speaking up about their concerns. If people like you considered yourself a woman you'd share our concerns but you have the privilege and luxury of not actually being subjected to these indignities as you are not bologically female. Your tweet proves your ignorance. You're just a beard bro in make-up.
Please stop calling him Katy.
It was to make a point. The irony being that if he was a woman then he would be responding very differently and also for others who may not be familair with him to realise which tweet my comment related to.
Also I've slept on this and I do not mind refering to him as Katy. Males have often had female names in the past with no trans agenda and it is not the name I object to, it's claiming to be a woman and trampling over women's rights and all the other crap that goes with it like the medicalisation of children, the entrenching of gender stereotypes, the normalisation of "queer" and sexualised behaviour in public and the trashing of boundaries. The name is small fry and I get some people will say "Oh, but that is part of it". Maybe, but to me it's the very least part. Folks can name themselves what they want, they just can't claim to be a woman. A name, make-up, clothing and an inner feeling compared to a gender stereotype do not a woman make.
"Oh we are fine with you using the word women, unless 'trans inclusive' language is needed." Which is like every time it concerns anything having to do with female bodies, healthcare for women, birth, abortion, women's rights, women's suffrage, sports, within medical bodies, by health authorities and agencies, sporting bodies and just about everything else.
It's funny and like clockwork how patronising it is. As if, aw bless, you can use your 'special word' for yourself if you really insist love. They're fine with it when they decide and on their terms, and that's all that matters. They are informing us we can have our needs unless they want them. They seem to run the gamut from overtly aggressive to passive aggressive and all mad aggressions in between.
It's fine you wanting to breathe and all but we're going to steal all your air and stick a bag over your head to make sure we get what we want.
Absolutely.
The fact that most are calling Macy snd Bette "nazis and fascists" says it all. One is a woman of colour, the other is a Jewish woman. There cannot be anything more hostile or degrading said by all those wangledicks, knobend jockeys and barbietacklers (names from my nieces!!) who will never come close to the talent and womenhood shown by these two women.
Respectfully, I'll be taking that 'Wangledick', that word is mine now. Most appreciated.... excellently put😆
Many thanks to your nieces for the term Barbiewranglers! Love it, and it's safe for work too (for now)
Most excellently put :-)
Bloody hell, Willoughby writes like he's tripping, his paranoia has gone into overdrive and he's grasping at anything. What an arsehole, the same for all these fucking loud mouthed misogynists.
Nuttier than squirrel excrament!
It shouldn't be that surprising, he's a man that thinks he's a woman.
I don't believe for a moment that he wrote that!
Regardless of whether he wrote the words himself, do you believe he is in agreement with them? Presumably, he thinks he is, irrespective of how unreasonable, excessive and risible they are
Absolutely. His use of his own and others' lies and hyperbole show him to be ever more detached from reality.
Just indigestion after accidentally swallowing an Antifa handbook.Rage,Himdia!🤣
After years of incredible women and brave male allies manning the baracades, the message has started to get through to the extent that celebs now feel safe to speak out. Its a shame it has taken this long but we have to take the wins. The spell is broken.
A lot, I hope. Fear of what they know they'll encounter stops people from expressing what they believe. That has a general application, but here the consequences in terms of a reaction is colossally disproportionate and sometimes borderline psychotic. These two have done something bold, and I doubt many like them will do the same until they've gauged the kind of response Bette and Macy get.
That is a lot of followers. I'm so glad they're not yielding to the pressure in them to conform. I hope they're getting plenty of encouragement as well as criticism.
Has anyone read this article? 'Shame and Narcissistic Rage in Autogynephilic Transsexualism' by
Anne A. Lawrence? Came across the link on twitter. Really interesting. An explanation for the weird disproportionate rage. Not an excuse for it but an explanation at least.
👉Men Trapped in Men's Bodies: Narratives of Autogynephilic Transsexualism.... 👈 Anne Lawrence
I haven't read it but it can only explain a tiny bit of the aggression and reality denial we witness. There are many other forces at play here, and many, many other participants, who clearly are not transgender themselves but share the same rage. It's certainly an important issue to look at, don't get me wrong, but on a societal level I am afraid it isn't an explanation for what we see.
I utterly agree. The narcissism is just a starting point. But I'm arming myself with as much info I can get. If I can't understand it, I can't fight it. I won't sink to their level and fight with hate and no logic.
I do get that. Know your foe - that never hurts. Also, I hope that you won't have to deal with any of the extreme nutcases the article describes. It's just tedious and there hardly ever is any point to it, on a personal level at least.
True.
I'd love to have a handbook on how to deal with all that disproportionate rage and stop it in its tracks.
Its great having all the info about what is happening and why.
We need info in how to reverse, stop and prevent it happening again.
It’s a paper commenting on the unhinged reactions against a particular book on transgender identity (previously known as transsexualism) published in the aughts. Lawrence proposes that one factor explaining the excessive lengths the book's trans opponents went to to punish the author might be narcissistic rage. The idea being that an insult to the self-esteem of someone with a false sense of identity can trigger narcissistic rage, a fanatic need for revenge and a compulsion to obliterate the offender. Paraphrasing the German psychologist (H. Kohut) who coined the term—There is utter disregard for reasonable limitations and a boundless wish to redress an injury and to obtain revenge. The narcissistically injured person cannot rest until he has blotted out someone who dared to disagree with him.
I went down the rabbit hole on the whole Alice Dreger dispute at one time but what this paper introduced was Kohut's description of narcissistic injury—that if you are someone with a false sense of self or a false identity, any ordinary disagreement is enough to unhinge your fundamental being. You become consumed with needing to annihilate the source of that discomfort.
Oh, quite certainly. Whatever one thinks of transsexuals or the wider part of the T alphabet soup, cognitive dissonance is the core of their own images of themselves. They know full well, even though they surpress it as hard as they can, that they are not who they see themselves at. Hence their propensity for Creeds, their insistence as neologisms and their dependence on outside affirmation. It's quite hard to keep up the immersion even for themselves, so anyone who might challenge that is seen as an enemy, and forceful reactions are to be expected, up to being entirely irrational in some cases. Only relatively few seem to come to terms with themselves and their environment by extention, eventually. See the studies about mental health in transsexuals even after transition.
This being said, this mechanism alone does not explain why this debate is so lopsided and so violent from their side. Within their own side, they are only a minority. Most activists and ardent adherers to transideology do not even have GD, or do even see themselves as "trans", whatever that means. Yet, many of these react just as irrationally to violent, and even the more rational ones among outspoken trans supporters repeat the same tales that can only spring from the cognitive dissonance in which transsexuals live practically by definition.
The concept of narcisstic rage can only explain one part of that. It is important to have that explanation, by the way. What I find at least as important to understand how that reaction can so easily be transferred to other people as seems to be the case. This seems to be a societal or political question. I don't think it is unique in and of itself. We can certainy find many similar situations throughout history and even in the present. But the radicality seems to be very rare and may even be unique.
Also, there is the question of whether the uncritical affirmation by supporters can and does instill narcisstic rage - or whatever we want to call it - in people or deepens it. I suspect that is even very likely, but I'm no expert and have not done any research nor would I even know how to investigate that question on my own. Maybe the paper addresses that question.
No, it's dated 2008 so it predates the recent increase in trans ID and gender ideology, and accompanying legislation—even predates the Obergefell decision, and legalization of same-sex marriage in the US, for that matter.
Say, did you know that Anne A Lawrence is FTM trans?
MTF surely?
Yeah that’s the one. Hard to keep it all straight.
Monty and SillyWilly - these men are nuts.
"If your feminism doesn't center men, it's worthless."
The "too long, didn't read" version of the TRA comments.
Always laugh the way Colin prefaces every single tweet with 'mate'. Zero self-awareness of how he comes across.
Exulansic has a great take on Sillybilly on her Odysee channel with two videos worth watching, first, 'Weeping Willoughby and #notallmen' and then, 'India doesn't like hearing 'no' '. Both worth a look.
Just back to add, also worth a look is today's video on Exulansic, a hearbreaking interview with a detransitioner called Raven. Absolutely horrifying tale of medical neglect and misinformation and a very revealing narrative about how Raven, as a lesbian, first got into the whole 'trans' thing. I think more needs to be told about the root causes of the trans position as then you can clearly map the route of influence and coercion and stop seeing it as some inevitable, immutable essence.
Yeah ,I watched that. So sad.
If this was all "anti-trans panic fake nonsense" and just case of using "trans inclusive language", why do we never see "sperm makers" or "penis havers"?
Rory / Panty and the rest of these TRA creeps can back-peddle all they like, but we've got the receipts!
Even the Guardian are calling out this deranged ideology now:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/28/erase-biological-definition-sex-gender-self-identification-trans-transgender-feminist-case
Men don’t have to wear the rhetorical burka.
Does anyone know who can restring the tiny violin ?
There’s only so much they can bear, before breaking under the tears of laughter 😂
Love both these brilliant women - and thank you to Piers Morgan!
We need Barbara Streisand next
And Adele almost went there recently.