Aug 12, 2022·edited Aug 12, 2022Liked by Graham Linehan
Up until Manson the new long hairs were thought of as being universally peace loving guileless apostle-like peace-niks, holy-ish fools in sandals (or welfare cheats, at worst--- drop outs, bums). And the Tate murders ended that lazy delusion, bang!: the illusion that you could tell nearly all you needed to know about people by their age and presentation, by their hair and the clothes they wore. --- Then came crystals and E.S.T. and Scientology picked up steam when that dropped out, while corporations were gobbling up or destroying every mom n pop small town, local business and unionized manufacturing job everywhere --- or a least 9/10s of them... and the communities that surrounded them--- blue collar America. And then there was the Swami guy, later in Oregon that the children of the unhinged Professional Managerial Classes could experience, and later the Hot Yoga guy, and a lot of other really very expensive salvations from the "3rd world", and Jerry Lee Lewis's cousin Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Jones and Jim Baker and Tammy and Orel and Ernest Angsley...they grew up in the same house Jerry Lee and Swaggart.And the "Moral Majority" (who were a decided minority...) And recovered memory and alien abduction and facilitated communication miracles. --- And Ron Ray-gun's astrologer....
But before all that, before Manson there was the John Birch Society (John Birch being "the first casualty of World War III" and a symbol of the communist plot to take over the U. S. and the world), and Mesmerism and "Multiple Personalities" and "mothers little helpers"--- barbies and speedies for "happier homemakers", and spirit rappers and mediums and Objectivism and Ayn Rand, and fake "Morman Artifacts" and Joe Smith and Brigham, and the Kentucky Wilderness Wildfire Revival... and etc etc etc etc etc.... and the "Lost Cause" bunkum that gave us 100s of courthouse monuments all over ...and the KKK in charge of several states where you couldn't be elected dogcatcher without their say so...
And it has never stopped. It's just on the internet now and there's no filtering, no governor on the machine. Nobody is in charge of the old hollowed out institutions, no investments there --- now we're in the hands of dot.com pirates who don't live anywhere except in their own minds and belong to no county except their own self interest.
--- But for a while there, there was Tom Paine, there was M. L. K. , there was the union movement, and there have been other very, very good ones. Recently the L.G.B. equality movements and the 2nd wave Women's movements.
But there is always this battle between the intellectually lazy and dishonest and magic thinking and simple reason and limits on what you can honestly claim, and rigor and process and openness and science and real knowledge . It was nice when those things, the real, the just things won--- that was glorious. And it would be nice if it would happen again.
Thanks for your part in trying to bring some sanity and honesty and fellow respect back.
All in a nutshell David, great memory and spot on!!! Well done! I second all of this. Helter Skelter, Holy Smoke! We think we're doing it tough with transgenderism and erasure of all things sex rights based, and backlash feminism, and erasure of scientific biology. The post WWII decades were a cascade of experimentation and cultural revolution. Sadly girls and women have always been traded as sex slaves. The flower power movement dominated by gurus of all denominations. And girls & women kept having babies while the hippie males kept making music and careers. Look up the all women's band (not intentionally) 'Ace of Cups', who performed alongside Jefferson Airplane, Jimi Hendrix, and a few other headliners. They lived at the Haight and have inside knowledge. Now in their mid 70s they released their first album (too busy having babies back then) in 2019 and have made a come back. You're stirring up unsettled dust Graham, a good time to revisit and pinpoint some analogies. As one of my ancestor grandmothers keeps yelling in my ear: The answers to your questioning are laying in the past! Margo (of Dutch revolutionary hippie descent and commune living, then second wave feminism and radical lesbian uprising leading to terfism)
It utterly frustrates me that in the Anglo Saxon and multi layered American world, revolutions in Europe during the 1950s/60s/70s are overlooked and forgotten while in my lived experiences, that's where some groundbreaking social changes sprung from and made the Netherlands one of the most progressive countries in the world. Think of the student uprisings in Paris, Brussels, Berlin and Amsterdam in 1968! But in the art world too, going back to the amazing DaDa movements and surrealism of Bunuel, Dali et al., and the Spanish civil revolution in the 1930s. Amsterdam was very much a mecca of hippiedom during the 1960s/70s, and also in political uprising and influence, and women's and lesbian liberation movements. They were very powerful and creative times that shaped me. It was at the height of women/lesbians taking power, and creating successful subcultures away from heterosexual domination, when men claiming to be women, started to infiltrate, going back to the late 1970s.
Aug 12, 2022·edited Aug 12, 2022Liked by Graham Linehan
Malcolm Maclaren (Sex Pistols’ Manager) said punk was partly a reaction to London being full of “hard bitten hippies pretending to be delicate flowers”. As someone who was a little too young and 18 just when punk began (not a punk but sympathetic) and female this said it all to me. Wolves in sheep’s clothing evolve different disguises from age to age.
This is how Pattie Boyd described George Harrison's bummer of a time with the hippies in her autobiography...
"Afterwards we thought it would be fun to go and have a look at Haight-Ashbury, the district that had been taken over by hippies. Musicians like Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead and Janis Joplin lived there, and it was the LSD capital of America. On the way, Derek produced a tab. Would we like some? Since we were going to Haight-Ashbury, it seemed silly not to. The area is named after the intersection of two streets, Haight and Ashbury, and as we approached, the driver said he wouldn’t drive down the street itself, he’d park among the side-streets. It seemed a little odd but we didn’t argue. We got out of the car, the acid kicked in and everything was just whoah, psychedelic and very ... I mean, it was just completely fine. We went into a shop and noticed that all these people were following us. They had recognised George as we walked past them in the street, then turned to follow us. One minute there were five, then ten, twenty, thirty and forty people behind us. I could hear them saying, ‘The Beatles are here, the Beatles are in town!’ We were expecting Haight-Ashbury to be special, a creative and artistic place, filled with Beautiful People, but it was horrible – full of ghastly drop-outs, bums and spotty youths, all out of their brains. Everybody looked stoned – even mothers and babies – and they were so close behind us they were treading on the backs of our heels. It got to the point where we couldn’t stop for fear of being trampled. Then somebody said, ‘Let’s go to Hippie Hill,’ and we crossed the road, hoping the lights were red, and went into a park. Then somebody said, ‘Let’s sit down here,’ and we all sat down on the grass, our retinue facing us, as if we were on stage. They looked at us expectantly – as if George was some kind of Messiah. We were so high, and then the inevitable happened: a guitar emerged from the crowd and I could see it being passed to the front by outstretched arms. I thought, Oh, God, poor George, this is a nightmare. Finally the guitar was handed to him. I had the feeling that they’d listened to the Beatles’ records, analysed them, learnt what they’d thought they should learn, and taken every drug they’d thought the Beatles were singing about. Now they wanted to know where to go next. And
George was there, obviously, to give them the answer. Pressure. George was so cool. He said, ‘This is G, this is E, this is D,’ and showed them a few chords, then handed back the guitar and said, ‘Sorry, man, we’ve got to go now.’ He didn’t sing – he couldn’t have: he was flying. We all were. I was surprised he could even do that. Anyway, we got up and walked back towards our limo, at which point I heard a little voice say, ‘Hey, George, do you want some STP?’ George turned around and said, ‘No, thanks, I’m cool, man.’ Then the bloke turned round and said to the others, ‘George Harrison turned me down.’ And they went, ‘No!’ And then the crowd became faintly hostile. We sensed it because when you’re that high you’re very aware of vibes, and we were walking faster and faster, and they were following. When we saw the limo, we ran across the road and jumped in, and they ran after us and started to rock the car, and the windows were full of these faces, flattened against the glass, looking at us. That was a turning-point for George. We had always thought of drugs as fun, a means of expanding your mind and consciousness. What we saw at Haight-Ashbury was an eye-opener. Those people had dropped out, were sleeping rough and taking all kinds of drugs – some of which were ten times stronger than LSD. STP was one, as George later discovered from Mama Cass Elliot. There was nothing remotely artistic or creative about those people: they were like alcoholics or any other kind of addict, and it turned George right off the whole drug culture. He stopped taking LSD, and took up meditation.
Later, in an interview, Harrison noted he thought the Haight “would be something like King’s Road (in London), only more. Somehow I expected them to all own their own little shops. I expected them all to be nice and clean and friendly and happy. Instead, he said, he found the hippies “hideous, spotty little teenagers.” He further noted, “I went there expecting it to be a brilliant place, with groovy gypsy people making works of art and paintings and carvings in little workshops. But it was full of horrible spotty drop-out kids on drugs, and it turned me right off the whole scene.”
See my comment (I assume below). Yes, it went from there being free stores for clothing, food, etc (the Diggers), to being a drugged-out scene of children who had been abused and neglected.
George Harrison...love him so much,ge was a true 'hippie',one of the first artists to do a concert to raise money for others,'Concert for Bangladesh' is one of my favourite live shows.
He also personally funded Monty Python’s brilliant piss take on Jesus and Christianity, Life of Brian, when no one else would touch it. Legend for so many reasons.
I'm borderline obsessed with this era so I might well be your man, Graham. (The Beach Boys are by far my favourite band, I've researched and read tons of books on Manson, the Wrecking Crew, the LA music scene, etc.)
In truth, I don't think there was much serious actual cross-over between hippies and Hollywood celebs prior to Manson (and certainly not post-Manson), but here is the story of how Manson and his 'Family' came to be heavily involved with A-listers...
It was 1968 and Beach Boys drummer (and supremely underrated songwriter) Dennis Wilson was driving through LA in his open-topped car when he spotted a pair of female hitchhikers. Never one to turn down an opportunity to spend time with young females, Dennis picked them up and took them back home to his LA home. In the event, he didn't engage in any sexual activity or otherwise with them because he had to leave to attend a Beach Boys recording session, and so he soon left and dropped them off elsewhere.
Unbeknowst to 23-year-old Dennis Wilson, the girls were members of Charles Manson's weird 'Family', a gang of misfits and outcasts recruited by the 30-something ex-con. The teenage girls had absolutely no idea who Dennis was, but when they returned to Manson and told him they had been at Dennis Wilson's house, Manson immediately sprung to life. Back then, Manson was an aspiring singer-songwriter, and he knew exactly who Dennis was and that Dennis would have connections within the music business.
When Dennis returned home later that night, the girls had also returned to his home - and they had brought Manson and the rest of his followers with them. When Dennis saw Manson standing on his driveway, he asked 'Are you going to hurt me?' Manson fell to his knees, kissed Dennis's feet and said 'Do I look like I'm going to hurt you, brother?'
The Beach Boys were Brian, Dennis and Carl Wilson, their cousin Mike Love and schoolfriend Al Jardine, and - despite the perfect music they created - they were famously dysfunctional away from the microphones. Yet even by the standards of the Wilson brothers, Dennis was very messed-up. Despite being ridiculously good-looking, he was riddled with self-hate and insecurity, and was completely directionless when away from the drums or piano, numbing himself with drugs, booze and sex. As such, he was an absolute sucker for Manson's offer of regular group sex and seemingly worldy-wise philosophising.
So Dennis welcomed Manson and his Family into his home. Before long, Manson had played some of his songs for Dennis, and the middle Wilson brother was so impressed that he contacted producer Terry Melcher.
Melcher was Doris Day's son and produced acts such as The Byrds, and Melcher was similarly impressed by Manson's music. It was around this time that Neil Young also met Manson and heard his music (unlike most, Young has always been honest and open about how impressed he was by the charismatic Manson).
A recording session for Manson was arranged in the home studio of Brian Wilson, much to the displeasure of Brian and his wife, Marilyn, who didn't appreciate their house being temporarily overrun by foul-smelling hippies. The session was overseen by engineer Stephen Desper, who worked on several classic Beach Boys albums (Sunflower and Surf's Up), and who Manson pulled a switchblade on during the session. Afterwards, Desper reported to Melcher that Manson was 'unproducable'.
Despite this, Dennis agreed to record a Manson track with the Beach Boys. Originally called Cease to Exist, Dennis renamed it Never Learn Not to Love and the track appeared on the Beach Boys' 1969 album 20/20 and as a B-side during the same period (thus granting Manson top 70 chart success).
A common myth is that Manson was furious that he wasn't credited on the track. This isn't true. Manson didn't care about being credited. He did, however, care about the message conveyed by his lyrics and he was incandescent with rage when he discovered Dennis had rewritten the lyrics.
As a result, an angry Manson showed Dennis a bullet and threatened the life of his son, which either caused Dennis to beat the hell out of Manson or flee in terror (accounts vary, but the former is more in keeping with Dennis's macho volatile nature). Either way, Dennis moved out of his home and left Manson and his Family to be thrown out by the landlord (his dalliance with Manson and co allegedly cost Dennis around 1/2 million dollars in damages and gonorrhea bills).
By now, Manson's hopes of music stardom were fading and he moved out to the Spahn Ranch (a former Hollywood production set) with his followers. Melcher visited him there to watch a Manson audition, but the moment had clearly passed and he wasn't impressed. This further angered Manson.
At the time Melcher lived at Ciello Drive, and Manson had been in a car with Dennis and Melcher at least once at the property, if not several times. However, Melcher had moved out when, six months later, Manson sent some of his followers there to commit murder.
It is often claimed that Manson incorrectly believed Melcher still lived there. This is a myth. Manson knew Melcher had moved out because he had sent his followers to Melcher's new home to scare him by 'creepy-crawling' his home (moving furniture and objects about during the night).
Manson fully knew that Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate now lived at Ciello Drive and he likely just picked the property simply because he was familiar with it, he knew the layout, and he knew that rich famous people lived there.
A GREAT book to read on this subject is Chaos by Tom O'Neill. Highly highly highly recommended. You won't be able to put it down.
I've always heard about Manson's charisma and I think you had to be royally fucked up to find him charismatic. Rolling Stone published an interview with him sometime this century and he was phenomenally BORING and I'm guessing he always was.
Well, his many followers and several big-name rock stars would likely disagree. They certainly found something attractive about him, and it certainly wasn't his looks or personal hygiene. I've seen clips and footage of him where it's easy to see why so many people found him so strangely alluring.
I know what you write is true. Most people never found him charismatic, but people missing something internal -- a sense of what's real and true? a core self? a functioning brain and gut instinct? -- fell for his line of bullshit. Look at celebrity itself: the pursuit of the talentless by the mindless (Judge John Deed).
I don't think anyone could stand to be on LSD most of the time. I would imagine they were on multiple drugs (poly-substance abuse) much of the time, everything from marijuana to heroin and cocaine.
That said, I don't think I would have found Manson interesting even when I had taken LSD!
Probably more cocaine than heroin, considering their crimes, but you must be right, because I’d find it hard to believe LSD alone would facilitate that behavior. As well, most people on cocaine think they themselves are brilliant and fascinating. Perhaps his skill was in manipulating certain emotionally vulnerable or generally insecure, possibly narcissistic too, people on this toxic cocktail to believe that they’re some especially powerful, unique cabal that could dominate the world?
I’ve listened to recorded interviews with some of ‘the family’ as he called them and they are disgustingly self centered and remorseless, but that tends also to be boring, as you say.
Hey there, Tom, back in the 1960s and 1970s it was ONE DOLLAR for a tab of quality LSD, and probably cheaper if you bought a lot.. Marijuana came in nickel ($5) and dime bags.
Yes, I think that is most likely true, hence the appeal of Manson to the supremely talented but royally screwed-up Dennis Wilson.
Having said that, I've watched this video (below) multiple times and Manson's facial expressions are certainly fascinating. He was full of shit, but he knew how to make people pay attention to him.
Because he's a genuinely fascinating individual. People are often fascinated by the darker things in life, and Manson is certainly that. A random faux-hippy somehow brainwashes a small army of followers into butchering wealthy Hollywood celebrities - that is many things, all of them horrible, but boring it clearly isn't.
This is a great true story: Dennis Wilson, Terry Melcher and songwriter Gregg Jakobson went to the famous Whisky A Go-Go nightclub in Hollywood with Manson in tow. The place was THE place to hang out if you were young, rich and famous in the late 1960s. Suddenly, the entire dance floor cleared and everyone stopped dancing and fell silent. Dennis, Terry and Gregg got up from their seat and went over to see what was happening. It was Manson, dancing wildly on the dance floor, completely alone, and the entire venue had stopped as one to watch him in action. Jakobson later said: 'There seemed to be electricity pouring out of him'. Manson could even take the limelight away from A-list celebrities when he wanted to.
Interesting! Many years ago I worked on a shoot with Pete Doherty and he really had an amazing atmosphere around him .. can only describe it as energy was just leaking out of him ..?
The whole party culture/music culture in Hollywood loves and has always loved "characters." You really never know here if the oddball you are talking to at a party is going to be the next pop culture sensation, because lots of famous and successful music people ARE really weird. And while some people are considered universally charismatic, there is also niche charisma. Guys like Manson are everywhere in Hollywood. They spice up a party. It's easy to say what you'd think of Manson in retrospect, given hindsight. Lots of weird Manson types never murder anyone.
I enjoyed it, but there a few things about it that bothered me.
Paul Dano certainly looked the part, but he played Brian as this sort of fey simpering man-child that bears no resemblance to the assertive, dynamic, good-humoured individual heard on the Pet Sounds Sessions and Smile Sessions box-sets.
John Cusack's performance was just kind of odd. Not sure what that voice was he was doing, but it didn't sound anything like Brian circa 1980s.
Melinda Ledbetter is portrayed as this heroic flawless heroine who singlehandedly rescues Brian from the evil Dr Landy, but the truth is quite different to that. There were a lot of others involved whose contributions are barely even mentioned, if at all.
The film is very unfair on the other Beach Boys, particularly Carl and Dennis Wilson, who are largely portrayed as being unsympathetic and unsupportive of Brian's forward-thinking music. The exact opposite was the case. The scene in the swimming pool is particularly unkind. "Hey, come on into the shallow end with us, Brian" - it's a real insult to portray Carl and Dennis in this way.
Finally, the film repeats the myth that Smiley Smile was created by the other Beach Boys without much involvement from Brian. This is total nonsense. Smiley Smile was as much Brian's baby as was Smile, and the direction of the album and its contents was entirely dictated by Brian.
Finally, this gorgeous ballad is from their supremely underrated LA (Light Album) from 1979. The track was co-written by Dennis Wilson, his then-wife Karen and his regular collaborator (and witness during the Manson trials) Gregg Jakobson, and it features Carl and Dennis sharing lead vocal duties. I played this song at my wedding. It's utterly, utterly beautiful.
It doesn't get more out-there than this: Mrs O'Leary's Cow, aka Fire. Written by Brian Wilson, and recorded for the legendary Smile album in 1967. During the recording, Brian had the session musicians wear fire helmets and he even lit a fire in the studio to add to the atmosphere. Sadly, a real fire broke out in a nearby building within days of the recording session and Brian, gripped by drug-induced paranoia, became convinced that this track had indirectly caused the blaze. Both the track and the Smile album were promptly shelved for over four decades.
This is the opening track from Dennis Wilson's superb solo album Pacific Ocean Blue (1977). Epic would be an understatement. Sadly, Dennis's life started to unravel shortly after the release of the album, but it's a real gritty masterpiece and remains probably the greatest solo album by any member of the band, Brian included.
This track is from their excellent Surf's Up album from 1971. It is, for my money, one of the finest psychedelic tracks ever recorded. It was later used by Cameron Crowe for the end credits of Almost Famous (the director is a major Beach Boys fan). Co-written and sung by Carl Wilson.
Here's five of their more experimental tracks (of which there are hundreds). Hope you enjoy 'em!
ALL I WANNA DO
This track is from their spellbinding Sunflower album from 1970. Today, All I Wanna Do is widely regarded as the first ever chillwave track and is cited as a major influence by many modern-day shoegaze artists. It also features one of Mike Love's best-ever lead vocals. Written by Brian Wilson and Mike Love.
They're one of the all-time greats and certainly worth exploring. Their music is far, far, far more experimental and adventurous than their public image suggests. Brian Wilson was basically an avant-garde artist working within a pop/rock format, and his younger brothers were often equally as bold and talented, especially Dennis.
Today! (1965), Summer Days and Summer Nights (1965), Pet Sounds (1966), Smiley Smile (1967), Wild Honey (1967), Friends (1968), Sunflower (1970), Surf's Up (1971), Holland (1973) and Love You (1977) are all radically different from one another, and they are all fantastic albums. There are many more strong albums in their (huge) catalogue, but these are the cream of the crop. Dennis Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue (1977) is also well worth a listen.
Oh, and assume that almost all the accepted wisdom about them is wrong.
None of them surfed? Wrong.
They didn't play on their records? Wrong.
They didn't play their own instruments? Wrong.
The Wrecking Crew did everything? Wrong. [Of the 23 studio albums released by the Beach Boys between 1962 and 1979, the Wrecking Crew were the primary instrumentalists on approximately three.]
Mike Love hated Pet Sounds? Wrong.
The band didn't support Brian? Wrong.
Brian scrapped Smile after hearing Sgt Pepper? Wrong.
Brian quit making music and recording with the Beach Boys after Smile fell apart? Wrong.
The Tom O'Neill book Chaos: The Truth Behind the Manson Murders touches on this specific topic: 10050 Cielo Drive was Ground Zero for the West Coast counter-culture movement, where Hollywood royalty rubbed shoulders with hippies off the street. The philosophy behind it is both good and bad: 1, a genuine attempt to create a contemporary salon culture, where ideas mix freely, and, 2, Manson was the protected pimp to the stars - he supplied underage girls to the L.A. elite and so "couldn't get arrested".
Absolutely. The time Manson spent in San Francisco is fascinating - he frequented a free clinic run by the C.I.A. Manson left San Fran because the hippy movement collapsed as all the kids were now taking speed with their LSD and so started killing each other - which is what happened with the Manson clan just before the murders. I would also recommend the Rob Zombie documentary Charles Manson: The Final Word. For depth and totally at a tangent, the book The Big Goodbye: Chinatown and the Last Years of Hollywood explores what was happening with Polanski and the effect of the murder of his wife on the course of Chinatown.
Yes, a truly superlative book which has enhanced my appreciation of Chinatown no end. Tom O'Neill sensed a hidden hand protecting Manson: Manson was paroled in 1967 and any minor infringement could see him back in prison automatically. Between 1967 and 1970, Manson was picked up by the police near enough on a weekly basis, with every one of those incidents being enough to see him back behind bars (they usually involved crossing state lines with underage girls). Policemen O'Neill interviewed said that it had all the hallmarks of Manson being protected from on high - you don't arrest the pimp who delivers girls to the important men in L.A. There's also some strong indications that Manson was a C.I.A. asset, to be used against the Black Panthers and the counter-culture movement. One of the most interesting facets of O'Neill's book is a sense that the author was starting to experience an unsettling feeling of developing a sympathy for the devil. The prosecution case against Manson and some of the others in the group was very shaky - technically, Manson should never have gone to prison. Also, Manson isn't Manson - the persona created by the media was a blunt weapon to kill the counter-culture movement and bore little resemblance to the actual man.
The biography: Charles Manson by Jeff Guinn (I think it was...) was surprisingly informative and factual, all the way back to Manson's childhood to the materials he studied while in prison (like positive thinking? and Scientology?, I think were two...) that informed his later cons, to what can actually be said about all the wheres and whys of the whats that he and his little cult did later. And the still unanswered questions.
There's interviews with his sister (bet you never thought of him as having one), and his cousin--- lots about his mother and his fostering and his sons, yes, sons, two of them. And I'll tell you this, when I heard Manson's rap, the cadence of it and the delivery,(it's very musical and hypnotic), he sounded like a hundred, persuasive--- if you were of a mind for it, good fundy Sunday hellfire preachers I heard ( and without a doubt, him, too) growing up. --- He studied and he copied. And he took a little from here and there. Wrapped the old in the new.
Manson was a pimp. He had been long before he started his "family," and he pimped those poor women and girls, as well. That's why he was welcome in Wilson's home, for a while at least. It was the access to sex with young women and girls that made people put up with him, alas.
That was certainly a key factor, but Dennis Wilson was also drawn to Manson as an individual. The Wilson brother's father, Murry, was a notorious arsehole, a real nasty piece of work, abusive physically and mentally. And Dennis seemed to spend a lot of his adult life searching for substitute father figures: first with the Maharishi, then with Manson, and then later (and more happily) with Otto 'Pops' Hinsche, who was the father of Beach Boys sideman Billy Hinsche, and who Dennis was very close to throughout Hinsche's final years (he died in Dennis's arms). Manson was part of a pattern.
There is an eye-opening magazine article from the late 1960s in which Dennis waxes lyrical about Manson and how amazing and talented he is, referring to him as 'the Wizard'. It didn't last, of course, and Dennis eventually saw through Manson's bullshit, but for a period he definitely bought into the idea that Manson was someone special and important.
Yes! There’s a song on Neil Youngs album ‘on the beach’ called ‘Revolution blues’ that is about him / that time. Seems that Neil was angry that no-one owned up to hanging out with him and also passing the ‘family’ girls around ..
Do you like Neil Young ? Really worth listening to the track.. it’s a beauty .. the whole album is v special.
The song Revolution blues is about the Manson murders and a general anger at what happened. In an interview Young talks about the fact that many on the scene were using what Manson had (drugs and women) and after the murders all those celebs and industry people ran from that particular affiliation ..
I've been banging on about the similarities between Manson and the GI gang to the bemusement of those around me! This is why I think there is a centralised figure/figures behind it, someone distributing the core information. I know I sound like a loon but it feels too sophisticated to simply come from a few mentally ill people. Gender ideology is genius in its tactics...evil genius of course but you cannot fault its strategy and how quickly it has infiltrated culture.
Of course you're right. Check out Jennifer Bilek who researched the funding behind trans, but I think the U.S. government is deeply involved. Great way to distract people from actual issues!
I have thought about this myself. Social media is so intrinsic to the cult behaviour. I've just kept repeating, 'Imagine if Manson had social media. Imagine what he could have done.'
I watched a Manson documentary recently that has aired on Lifetime in which interviews with current surviving Family members such as Squeaky Fromme were being interviewed. Some of those women are still in complete thrall to "Charlie" as they call him. One woman refused to leave prison at the end of her term because she wanted to remain with her Family members.
One thing that was obvious to me was their behavior at the trials. Their loud, repetitive behavior reminded me of current TRA's shouting repetitive mantras in the face of Kara Dansky at the Phili Speaker's Corner. This is frightening because as the Manson family would kill for him without blinking an eye, so to I believe would these enthralled TRAs if given the signal that it would help their cause.
I don't know much but Terry Melcher (Doris Day's son) and Candace Bergen hung out with them too. The podcast You Must Remember This did a great series on Hollywood and Manson, there may be something on that (it's harrowing though) x
Manson wanted a recording contract and thought that Terry Melcher could give him one, but he wasn't good enough. Melcher used to live in the house which Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate lived in. He probably went to that house to kill Melcher out of vengeance, not realising he no longer lived there.
Nope, Manson definitely knew that Melcher had moved out.
In the months prior to the Tate/LaBianca murders, Manson instructed his followers to go to Melcher's new home and 'creepy-crawl' it while Melcher was sleeping (creepy-crawling was when Manson and his Family would go into people's houses at night, move around all the furniture, and then leave).
Also, Manson visited Ciello Drive in person in the months after Melcher had moved out. This was the sole occasion when he and Sharon Tate ever saw each other in person.
It is likely that Manson simply picked Ciello Drive because he was familiar with it, both inside and outside (there are several accounts of Manson being seen inside the house during Melcher's time there), and because he knew there were rich Hollywood people living there whose deaths would cause a stir.
Intriguing questions. Hippies as chosen flower children who will lead the world into a new age. They couldn’t possibly, actually, just be regular humans with regular human foibles and weaknesses, could they? Some of them couldn’t possibly, actually, just be real misfits glomming onto a community that will give them immediate acceptance and access? 'Hippiedom' as a sort of sanitizing flower power with the magical ability to cover over a multitude of sins; and, in some credulous people's minds, possessing an almost 'sacred' anointing as 'exalted other' -- signified simply by long hair and beads and bell bottoms and dropping out.
They were actually, mostly, what they were advertised as being, which was kind of ---the original slackers really. And the people who carried on about how very much they hated them for the next 50 years were, again, mostly--- libertarian leaning, locust like, very, very unpleasant assholes who didn't want anybody throwing shade on their divine right to be self centered and selfish in all things... as Mother Ayn put it.
By the 80s there was too much unemployment (in the UK anyway)so no casual work to keep you going and no cheap lland or squats or mansions to start a commune, which was not half as appealing as starting a nightclub or joining a band was, by then
Alan Watts lives forever on "Alan Watts Radio Livestream" on youtube.
All his lectures were recorded in the 60's, so you can hear for yourself what the vibe of the time was like; the lingo, the topics, the attitude. As well as enjoying a little enlightenment along the way.
‘Chaos’ is on Audible. I believe ‘Weird Scenes’ is too. ‘Chaos’ author alleges the book ‘Helter Skelter’ was misinformation woven by the lawyer who wrote it. Vincent Bugliosi was the prosecutor, and O’Neill makes the case that it was a CIA cover up from the beginning.
It’s been a while since I listened, but I’m positive ‘Chaos’ also discussed the night prior to the Tate murders. Apparently the phone lines were cut at Jay Sebring’s (hairdresser to the stars) home, and other similarities, but Sebring wasn’t home that night. O’Neill posits that Sebring was the target and Sharon Tate etc were killed just because they were there. It’s a very interesting take.
You might want to research Laurel Canyon too. Quite the rabbit hole.
IIRC Richard Nixon called the hippies this...because they shunned govts, rules, laws, just wanting to live in Peace & Love, not truly understanding the evils of other humans.
Look into The FBI too, under Hoover, a really vile man....and how FBI drove French actress to take her own life....The Black Panthers, Leonard Peltier, (still in prison to this day for a crime he never committed), AIM, The American Indian Movement, 2 of the leaders were Russell Means and John Trudell, both incredibly intelligent men, no longer with us now, sadly...HATED by US Govts....
There was so much going on at this time in history......so The Hippies were trying to change it all, really trying to bring Love and Peace into the lives of us all.
I can still vividly recall the day Manson murdered Sharon Tate and the others...I was very young, on holiday in Holt, Norfolk. Mum and Dad had the telly on, and suddenly, the news flashed up of this awful murder, of her precious baby too, almost ready to be born...It was beyond horrific. I couldn't believe anyone could be so evil. Mum and Dad turned the TV off fast, but it was everywhere that week, in every newspaper, on every billboard outside shops, etc....Polanski was famous too, of course, no-one knowing of his other side with young girls... It kind of stopped all the Love and Peace feelings....that this Wretched Evil had come a-visiting, led by this Rasputin-like man, with the mad eyes, who had the narcissistic ability to draw everyone in, to captivate them all...........
I so miss The Hippie Days...the beautiful music..it was a very lovely time to be young, flowers in our hair, hope in our hearts...
I watched 'Trainwreck - Woodstock 99' on Netflix the other day, SO different from the original Woodstock, the aggressive music, the aggressive fans, the greed of the organisers, all water/alcohol removed from everyone wanting to enter this awful site, a former airbase, all concrete...They charged a fortune for water, for any form of drinks, toilets overflowed, as did the anger of the crowds, fires started up, whilst stupid bands egged everyone on.
Made me cry...........
It was the very opposite of what Peace & Love was about....
I still wear a flower in my hair to this day, always will....and I hope to be buried with a flower in my hair too....I think my dear and gentle son will sort that for me, bless him.
Where it all went wrong, where Transworld has gone so wrong too, is that very damaged humans ruin it all, mentally unwell, either arriving on the planet thus, or becoming like that due to life treating them so badly. And many can't ever see that. They long for Peace & Love, where everyone is accepted, and they can't bear to look deeper, into The Dark Side, which, so sadly, always comes up again...
To end on a happier note....how it was supposed to be, forever, "with Summertime being a Love In there....gentle people with flowers in their hair..."
Leftist guys used the free love and peace movement to coerce women into sex. Having 5 brothers and being raised Catholic gave me enough scepticism to resist the, "but it's the Age of Aquarius" line.
Yes. You only have to read Carly Simon’s biography to understand what it was like for most women then .. awful .. what a scene .. and she was in a pretty good / exalted position ..
I grew up with Carly Simon's music, and James Taylor. I was born in 1955....and it was a good time for loads of women, great time to be young in. I know there are always bad people doing bad things, but the way the 60s/70s (early 70s) has been portrayed in recent times makes me very angry. I was there...it was a lovely time to be young in.
Tried to click like and couldn't. I think some of what you remember about that era that feels good is that we had HOPE, hope for a better future and a different kind of world. I don't think young people have hope anymore and they're easy prey for crap ideologies.
I recall having learned about the Woodstock '69 rapes in a Women's Studies class back in 1988. I was shocked because the only image I had of Woodstock before that was the 1970s documentary which purposely portrayed it as this utopian event. It was a nightmare in reality. People died. Women got raped. So much for free love. There was almost a mass electrocution because of the combination of faulty electrical wires and water. The list goes on.
You have never read any stories about Woodstock rapes therefore they didn't happen. Ok. Not only that but you are accusing the women of having lied to save face. Whose side are you on!!!! Go put some fucking flowers in your hair and tune out and turn on or whatever useless, lazy, hippy dips do.
Whoa. People who were young at that time saying they found it a great time to be alive is that offensive to you? Someone dares to disagree with you, so you resort to abuse and character assassination? Way to claim the moral high ground there.
Sorry if I can't give you exact references etc but hey,it was fifty years ago and pre-internet,but I remember reading a reportage of young men queueing up to fuck an unconscious hippy-chick while her "friends" looked on.....
Apologies to the spirit of Jean Seberg, for forgetting to mention her name, when talking of the FBI driving her to taking her own life...by their 'neutralising' of her...
That is also covered I the brilliant podcast series You Must Remember This. The episodes compating the careers of Jean Seaberg and Jane Fonda are marvellous.
You are very right that the Hippies wanted Peace & Love; it was, Astrologically, the Dawn of the Age of Aquarius.
There was a Spiritual Power and Liberation Rising up - this is felt and reflected in many people born in the early-mid 60's, and the music and movements of the era.
The planets Uranus (Awakening) and Pluto (Darkness) were conjunct in Virgo (Healing & Embodiment).
Unfortunately, Peace, Love, Liberation, and Awakening are the enemies of the System of Slavery that lords over humanity: they won't allow it.
The CIA brought Heroin (agents) to Woodstock, to "take out" as many hippies as they could.
You can look for it online, but to this day, there is a terrible Heroin problem still left over in Woodstock.
They assassinated Agents of Change; they used MK-Ultra agents to seed darkness (cults like the Manson 'Family'); and they sent propaganda and division through every media and medium (including Gloria Steinem working for the CIA - this can also be seen in her own words on youtube).
Including the creation of the Vietnam War.
War: the greatest Divider of all.
Divide; Conquer; Confuse.
We can see echoes of this, today, with covid being a factor in accidentally or vicariously unifying human consciousness all over the globe, that was swiftly exploited by the PTB in all countries and global affairs, and followed shortly after by the drums (and bombs) of war.
(not to mention the confusion around: "What is a Woman?" these days.)
Dear Richie Havens, his book, 'They Can't Hide Us Anymore', first and only to arrive into Woodstock on time, all other acts caught up in 30mile traffic jams, all around Yasgur's Farm. Had to keep playing for over 3 hours, making up the songs in the end...In his book you'll read all about that time, all the amazing artists in Greenwich Village, the laid back times, everyone welcome....very 'inclusive' in every way...As with all good movements, The Hippies were infiltrated by The Bad 'Uns...
Many of the old hippies still around in California, accepting of everyone...no matter what...and, I expect, still getting shafted by those who pose as Peace & Love Man, types, who can, so often, have very sinister motives.
I wouldn't call Manson a hippie. He masqueraded as a hippie. Hippies were into peace, love and happiness among other things. Manson was a predator. Manson had no qualms about having people violently killed. If you want a hippie look to John Lennon.
There is a type of leader who is never the thing they lead. They take up whatever gets them a following to gain power. Manson was never a hippy, Trump is not a Republican.
I know it's tangential to your question Graham, but the film "Down and Out in Beverly Hills" with Nick Nolte and Bette Midler encapsulates the scenario you ask about.
Nolte played the part of an alcoholic drifter accepted into an "A list" Hollywood family through his guile and talent.
From the You Must Remember This podcast notes: Future episodes will explore the various celebrities, musicians, movie stars and filmmakers (including Roman Polanski, Sharon Tate, The Beach Boys, Dennis Hopper, Doris Day and more) whose paths crossed with Manson’s in meaningful ways, both leading up to the murders and in their aftermath. Today, we’ll talk about what was going on in the show business capital that made Manson seem like a relatively normal guy.
No - and it’s REALLY bugging me that I can’t remember exactly who. But I have read about people (wealthy, generally sympathetic to the counter culture) who had much poorer hippies living in their homes. There was an obituary in the last few years that had a story like this. I’m going to dig through some stuff this weekend. It’s definitely a thing.
I know Penny Rimbaud talks about letting hippies stay in her house in Last of the Hippies, and that it was a "thing" more generally. And it's something that John Moretta talks about although I don't think he mentions any names of people, just that it was common
The Mansons damaged our rep among those who disliked us anyway.
We knew they had nothing to do with us.
I loved that time period in my life. Like so many women I was happy to reject the gender boxes that sent boys off to Vietnam; and mistakenly assumed we were freeing ourselves of all the gender boxes. Later realized women were essentially still in the same roles, just more sexual freedom. Men were relieved of Nam and their entire old roles of supporting the family.
There were years before I realized the sexes were not in sinc about the direction and goals of our movement. Those years in between, I was very happy in my ignorant bliss thinking we were united in building a new world.
The original "Helter Skelter" book by Curt Gentry and Manson prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi is an excellent read on the case. I deplore the way that Manson manages to still be regarded as somehow 'cool' in certain quarters. There is no question that he was a racist, misogynist psychopath who didn't truly believe in whatever hippie ideals really meant, he simply used the naivety of lost youngsters for his own ends. He wanted the blacks to rise up... and then turn to HIM as leader. A nasty, evil murderous shitbag of a human being. But a charismatic one, and it says a lot for the time that so many were taken in by him, including some celebrities.
It's worth reading Tom O'Neill's 'Chaos' for balance when it comes to Bugliosi, who had his own agenda. I enjoyed 'Helter Skelter', but it's worth noting that this theory of what motivated the Manson murders was essentially fabricated by Bugliosi as a means of selling the prosecution of the case - it's certainly not the whole story.
Perhaps it’s the absence of any underlying ideology (the dropping out bit) that made hippies or hippy wannabes more susceptible to shysters. There are no standards in the ‘alternative’. It’s the alternative man…The Bhagwan, the Maharajah, Children of God etc. were all able to find willing supplicants. They were quite happy to sacrifice their children along the way in true Abrahamic style. Have a look at the documentary on Netflix about the Bhagwan (Wild Wild Country) to see how easily children get forgotten in the rush for liberation.
I checked and there is historiography. Manson was a friend of a famous friend of Anton LaVey. Susan Atkins, one of Manson's killers, was in a LaVey topless show. The term "Manson Family" was actually coined by the research staff of the Haight Ashbury Clinic that studied his group as a free love community and it got amplified by the media. Manson became a key figure in the origins of the Satanic Panic as well as a hero to some really messed-up actual satanists. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/mar/10/kenneth-anger-interview
I’ve read a few books on the subject and they say that there were so many cults at that time - so Manson was not as noticeable / weird as he might seem now. People ‘dug it’ (hah!)
Will try and find the title of the good book - it’s a fascinating story. Also there are some great bits of footage / documentaries on him on YouTube.
Brother Love, just to name another Kentucky bred cult leader.
Manson was the first time I remember looking at the news and after hearing him speak saying to myself, that's funny, he sounds just like me.... Cause his mother and grandparents were from 20 miles down the road, next county over on the Ohio river, at Ashland, next to West Virginia.
The novel The Girls by Emma Cline is a fictional account of the Manon famy from the perspective of one of the young women he abused. It is a great read.
No I don't know about that...he was bonkers though!
Tom Jones SHOCK: How Tom Jones escaped the clutches of prolific killer Charles Manson
"Unfortunately, she did not reveal a reason why the Welsh singer was chosen, but given that reportedly, Manson arranged the murders to launch the imminent, apocalyptic race war, it can be assumed, Sir Tom was deemed important to the ”war”.
The other famous targets on the list included:
Actor Steve McQueen
Actress and businesswoman Elizabeth Taylor
Actor Richard Burton
Singer Frank Sinatra
Reasons for these other celebrity targets were never revealed and it is unlikely it will ever be revealed as both Atkins and Manson are now dead."
Graham, I appreciate this is off tack but might it be worth doing a piece updating how many historical figures are being trans'd these days. Elizabeth I, Joan of Arc, people involved in the Stonewall riots but I'm sure there's many more. If these people get their way, soon there'll be no actual great women of history left 🤬
Absolutely. I read a book about the music of the period which touched on this, and alluded to a connection between the Stones, their album "Their Satanic Majesties Request", and their association with Manson.
Nope, they had nothing to do with him. They were in the UK for starters, but even if they had been in America occasionally during this period, they weren't in any way involved with Manson. Perhaps they later pretended they were because they thought it might add to their bad boy image, but they definitely weren't. Manson was involved with Dennis Wilson, and thus indirectly involved with the Beach Boys. And, of course, Manson was associated with the Beatles in that he thought the White Album was giving him messages and encouraging him to start a race war. But the Stones? No involvement at all.
Having said that, sitting through the 'Their Satanic Majesties Request' album is enough to drive anyone to murder...
Tom Wolfe wrote ‘radical chic, Mau mauing the flack catchers’ about the fascination high society had with the black panthers. He also wrote electric kool aid acid test about Ken Kesey and the merry pranksters. There was quite a lot of interplay on the music scene, more so around SF and swinging London. HST used to hang about with politicians, the pranksters including, bizarrely sort of befriending Nixon (they bonded over football, even though HST loathed the man).
Maybe it wasn’t the scene where anyone could walk into a celebrities apartment, but there were overlaps in places. Zane Kesey, Ken’s son may be able to help you as he was at the heart of that scene.
Look up Steve Hodel, a former cop who authored a book stating he believed his father, George, murdered the Black Dahlia.
Steve married his father’s mistress, Kiyo, and lived on Laurel Canyon where she was astrologer to the stars.
Steve’s sister Tamar claimed she was molested by her father, George. I believed Steve backed this up, going as far as to cite an incestuous affair between George and Tamar.
Steve’s sister Tamar got tangled up with Michelle Phillips, and subsequently John Phillips. Both members of the Mamas and the Papas, also living at Laurel Canyon.
John Phillips had a penchant for underage girls, including his own daughter. Both John and his daughter claim they had an incestuous affair.
Manson attended many parties at the home of ‘Mama’ Cass Elliot, who had an open house policy. The Manson Family bus was also spotted outside the home of John and Michelle Phillips, including New Years Eve party of 1968, eight months prior to the Tate/Labianca murders.
Author Tom O'Neill is the expert on Manson and all that surrounded him during that period. His book is a must-read. He was on Joe Rogan's podcast and I highly recommend the episode. The things he uncovered (things he can prove) are jaw dropping.
Dennis Wilson was in a drug induced state since he was a teenager so he was clueless to how Manson was manipulating him,I don't think that many 'celebrities' wanted anything to do with Manson,it would only take a few minutes of talking to him to see that he was dangerous,Steve McQueen wanted to hire someone to kill all of the Manson family, many celebrities feared that they would be Manson's next victims. CSN,the other beach boys avoided the Manson family.
BBC documentarian Adam Curtis did a series," Can't get you out of my Head", that explored numerous aspects of our emotional post WW2 history. Many of the current issues that are troubling at the moment, were "explored" in the series of programmes. Thoroughly recommended checking it, and other Curtis documentaries, out. Very enlightening.
I think it may have been that these celebs may have wanted to scotch any accusations of having 'sold out' and used Manson and his ilk to show how down they were with the counter culture.
I'm going to write this before reading anyone else's comments. I lived in the LA area in 1969 for a short while. At the time the Manson Family had murdered a school principal in a parking lot if I remember correctly, and the atmosphere was definitely on edge.
That said, there was a sea change in hippiedom in San Francisco from basically an alternative economic and social structure to Haight-Ashbury (a working-class neighborhood) turning into a place for teenage runaways. I was always skeptical of hippiedom because it seemed so flaky, and it has a lot to do with today's "just accept everyone as they are" philosophy. Was it Firesign Theater or Procter & Bergman who did the bit about the man trying to talk to a politician (complete with Kennedy accent) about a young woman who needed help? "But, senator baby, she's starving!" "Young man, that's her trip."
Jeezums, how the powers-that-be have exploited that sentiment!
Never heard about celebrities allowing freaks to wander through their houses.
Can thoroughly recommend 'Riot on Sunset Strip: Rock 'n' Roll's Last Stand in Hollywood ' by Domenic Priore - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Riot-Sunset-Strip-Hollywood-Revised/dp/1908279907 Dominic was a great interview and helped our documentary on the Whisky a Go Go, especially the hippie scene which was turning ugly and dangerous around that time, leading to the riots and police crackdown and state and city sanctioned violence. I was in LA for a while, interviewing musicians from The Doors, Jefferson Airplane but the ones that stood out were the people around the scene, workers and waitresses at the Whisky and the other clubs, telling real stories. The strong impression I got was it was all peace and love and everyone helping everyone else, fabulous music and emerging talents but that was for a brief period, before a new breed of hippie emerged. Most were adamant things changed and became more threatening around the crowd that followed Zappa - freak out dancing getting more and more aggressive and violent. Drugs getting stronger, disillusionment and darkness and increased poverty reacting against perceived quick wealth amongst the film and music industry. People I interviewed that came in contact with Manson were still visibly shaken, like a shadow passed over them. I interviewed one lovely lady who was a waitress at the Whisky (later a manager and booker) and she recalled the night that Manson refused to move from the stairs to the balcony - he was blocking everyone. He told her he was Jesus and could do what he wanted. No one wanted to approach him and she was so unnerved she called Mario, the owner, who wasn't meant to be working that night. (I had access to Mario Maglieri and his family and there's no way anyone would want to cross them...). Mario told me he came back to the club and asked Mason to move. He again said he was Jesus so Mario told him he was god and to "get the f**k out of my club". He picked him up, dragged him out and threw him onto the Strip. That was the night the murders were committed.
A gold mine in response. Thank you all so much!
Up until Manson the new long hairs were thought of as being universally peace loving guileless apostle-like peace-niks, holy-ish fools in sandals (or welfare cheats, at worst--- drop outs, bums). And the Tate murders ended that lazy delusion, bang!: the illusion that you could tell nearly all you needed to know about people by their age and presentation, by their hair and the clothes they wore. --- Then came crystals and E.S.T. and Scientology picked up steam when that dropped out, while corporations were gobbling up or destroying every mom n pop small town, local business and unionized manufacturing job everywhere --- or a least 9/10s of them... and the communities that surrounded them--- blue collar America. And then there was the Swami guy, later in Oregon that the children of the unhinged Professional Managerial Classes could experience, and later the Hot Yoga guy, and a lot of other really very expensive salvations from the "3rd world", and Jerry Lee Lewis's cousin Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Jones and Jim Baker and Tammy and Orel and Ernest Angsley...they grew up in the same house Jerry Lee and Swaggart.And the "Moral Majority" (who were a decided minority...) And recovered memory and alien abduction and facilitated communication miracles. --- And Ron Ray-gun's astrologer....
But before all that, before Manson there was the John Birch Society (John Birch being "the first casualty of World War III" and a symbol of the communist plot to take over the U. S. and the world), and Mesmerism and "Multiple Personalities" and "mothers little helpers"--- barbies and speedies for "happier homemakers", and spirit rappers and mediums and Objectivism and Ayn Rand, and fake "Morman Artifacts" and Joe Smith and Brigham, and the Kentucky Wilderness Wildfire Revival... and etc etc etc etc etc.... and the "Lost Cause" bunkum that gave us 100s of courthouse monuments all over ...and the KKK in charge of several states where you couldn't be elected dogcatcher without their say so...
And it has never stopped. It's just on the internet now and there's no filtering, no governor on the machine. Nobody is in charge of the old hollowed out institutions, no investments there --- now we're in the hands of dot.com pirates who don't live anywhere except in their own minds and belong to no county except their own self interest.
--- But for a while there, there was Tom Paine, there was M. L. K. , there was the union movement, and there have been other very, very good ones. Recently the L.G.B. equality movements and the 2nd wave Women's movements.
But there is always this battle between the intellectually lazy and dishonest and magic thinking and simple reason and limits on what you can honestly claim, and rigor and process and openness and science and real knowledge . It was nice when those things, the real, the just things won--- that was glorious. And it would be nice if it would happen again.
Thanks for your part in trying to bring some sanity and honesty and fellow respect back.
All in a nutshell David, great memory and spot on!!! Well done! I second all of this. Helter Skelter, Holy Smoke! We think we're doing it tough with transgenderism and erasure of all things sex rights based, and backlash feminism, and erasure of scientific biology. The post WWII decades were a cascade of experimentation and cultural revolution. Sadly girls and women have always been traded as sex slaves. The flower power movement dominated by gurus of all denominations. And girls & women kept having babies while the hippie males kept making music and careers. Look up the all women's band (not intentionally) 'Ace of Cups', who performed alongside Jefferson Airplane, Jimi Hendrix, and a few other headliners. They lived at the Haight and have inside knowledge. Now in their mid 70s they released their first album (too busy having babies back then) in 2019 and have made a come back. You're stirring up unsettled dust Graham, a good time to revisit and pinpoint some analogies. As one of my ancestor grandmothers keeps yelling in my ear: The answers to your questioning are laying in the past! Margo (of Dutch revolutionary hippie descent and commune living, then second wave feminism and radical lesbian uprising leading to terfism)
It utterly frustrates me that in the Anglo Saxon and multi layered American world, revolutions in Europe during the 1950s/60s/70s are overlooked and forgotten while in my lived experiences, that's where some groundbreaking social changes sprung from and made the Netherlands one of the most progressive countries in the world. Think of the student uprisings in Paris, Brussels, Berlin and Amsterdam in 1968! But in the art world too, going back to the amazing DaDa movements and surrealism of Bunuel, Dali et al., and the Spanish civil revolution in the 1930s. Amsterdam was very much a mecca of hippiedom during the 1960s/70s, and also in political uprising and influence, and women's and lesbian liberation movements. They were very powerful and creative times that shaped me. It was at the height of women/lesbians taking power, and creating successful subcultures away from heterosexual domination, when men claiming to be women, started to infiltrate, going back to the late 1970s.
https://www.aceofcups.com/ Still hippies in their 70ties!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP3uMR1CEeY
Malcolm Maclaren (Sex Pistols’ Manager) said punk was partly a reaction to London being full of “hard bitten hippies pretending to be delicate flowers”. As someone who was a little too young and 18 just when punk began (not a punk but sympathetic) and female this said it all to me. Wolves in sheep’s clothing evolve different disguises from age to age.
This is how Pattie Boyd described George Harrison's bummer of a time with the hippies in her autobiography...
"Afterwards we thought it would be fun to go and have a look at Haight-Ashbury, the district that had been taken over by hippies. Musicians like Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead and Janis Joplin lived there, and it was the LSD capital of America. On the way, Derek produced a tab. Would we like some? Since we were going to Haight-Ashbury, it seemed silly not to. The area is named after the intersection of two streets, Haight and Ashbury, and as we approached, the driver said he wouldn’t drive down the street itself, he’d park among the side-streets. It seemed a little odd but we didn’t argue. We got out of the car, the acid kicked in and everything was just whoah, psychedelic and very ... I mean, it was just completely fine. We went into a shop and noticed that all these people were following us. They had recognised George as we walked past them in the street, then turned to follow us. One minute there were five, then ten, twenty, thirty and forty people behind us. I could hear them saying, ‘The Beatles are here, the Beatles are in town!’ We were expecting Haight-Ashbury to be special, a creative and artistic place, filled with Beautiful People, but it was horrible – full of ghastly drop-outs, bums and spotty youths, all out of their brains. Everybody looked stoned – even mothers and babies – and they were so close behind us they were treading on the backs of our heels. It got to the point where we couldn’t stop for fear of being trampled. Then somebody said, ‘Let’s go to Hippie Hill,’ and we crossed the road, hoping the lights were red, and went into a park. Then somebody said, ‘Let’s sit down here,’ and we all sat down on the grass, our retinue facing us, as if we were on stage. They looked at us expectantly – as if George was some kind of Messiah. We were so high, and then the inevitable happened: a guitar emerged from the crowd and I could see it being passed to the front by outstretched arms. I thought, Oh, God, poor George, this is a nightmare. Finally the guitar was handed to him. I had the feeling that they’d listened to the Beatles’ records, analysed them, learnt what they’d thought they should learn, and taken every drug they’d thought the Beatles were singing about. Now they wanted to know where to go next. And
George was there, obviously, to give them the answer. Pressure. George was so cool. He said, ‘This is G, this is E, this is D,’ and showed them a few chords, then handed back the guitar and said, ‘Sorry, man, we’ve got to go now.’ He didn’t sing – he couldn’t have: he was flying. We all were. I was surprised he could even do that. Anyway, we got up and walked back towards our limo, at which point I heard a little voice say, ‘Hey, George, do you want some STP?’ George turned around and said, ‘No, thanks, I’m cool, man.’ Then the bloke turned round and said to the others, ‘George Harrison turned me down.’ And they went, ‘No!’ And then the crowd became faintly hostile. We sensed it because when you’re that high you’re very aware of vibes, and we were walking faster and faster, and they were following. When we saw the limo, we ran across the road and jumped in, and they ran after us and started to rock the car, and the windows were full of these faces, flattened against the glass, looking at us. That was a turning-point for George. We had always thought of drugs as fun, a means of expanding your mind and consciousness. What we saw at Haight-Ashbury was an eye-opener. Those people had dropped out, were sleeping rough and taking all kinds of drugs – some of which were ten times stronger than LSD. STP was one, as George later discovered from Mama Cass Elliot. There was nothing remotely artistic or creative about those people: they were like alcoholics or any other kind of addict, and it turned George right off the whole drug culture. He stopped taking LSD, and took up meditation.
George Harrison was disappointed:
Later, in an interview, Harrison noted he thought the Haight “would be something like King’s Road (in London), only more. Somehow I expected them to all own their own little shops. I expected them all to be nice and clean and friendly and happy. Instead, he said, he found the hippies “hideous, spotty little teenagers.” He further noted, “I went there expecting it to be a brilliant place, with groovy gypsy people making works of art and paintings and carvings in little workshops. But it was full of horrible spotty drop-out kids on drugs, and it turned me right off the whole scene.”
More here: https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/radiowaves/article/Harrison-had-love-Haight-relationship-with-S-F-2847011.php
See my comment (I assume below). Yes, it went from there being free stores for clothing, food, etc (the Diggers), to being a drugged-out scene of children who had been abused and neglected.
George Harrison...love him so much,ge was a true 'hippie',one of the first artists to do a concert to raise money for others,'Concert for Bangladesh' is one of my favourite live shows.
He also personally funded Monty Python’s brilliant piss take on Jesus and Christianity, Life of Brian, when no one else would touch it. Legend for so many reasons.
Not to mention his role in setting up Hand Made Films, which led to the unparalleled genius that was Withnail and I.
I love Withnail and I, but had no idea about that! Thanks for sharing ❤️
He also wrote ‘Mr Tax Man’ and squirrelled away his millions.
I'm borderline obsessed with this era so I might well be your man, Graham. (The Beach Boys are by far my favourite band, I've researched and read tons of books on Manson, the Wrecking Crew, the LA music scene, etc.)
In truth, I don't think there was much serious actual cross-over between hippies and Hollywood celebs prior to Manson (and certainly not post-Manson), but here is the story of how Manson and his 'Family' came to be heavily involved with A-listers...
It was 1968 and Beach Boys drummer (and supremely underrated songwriter) Dennis Wilson was driving through LA in his open-topped car when he spotted a pair of female hitchhikers. Never one to turn down an opportunity to spend time with young females, Dennis picked them up and took them back home to his LA home. In the event, he didn't engage in any sexual activity or otherwise with them because he had to leave to attend a Beach Boys recording session, and so he soon left and dropped them off elsewhere.
Unbeknowst to 23-year-old Dennis Wilson, the girls were members of Charles Manson's weird 'Family', a gang of misfits and outcasts recruited by the 30-something ex-con. The teenage girls had absolutely no idea who Dennis was, but when they returned to Manson and told him they had been at Dennis Wilson's house, Manson immediately sprung to life. Back then, Manson was an aspiring singer-songwriter, and he knew exactly who Dennis was and that Dennis would have connections within the music business.
When Dennis returned home later that night, the girls had also returned to his home - and they had brought Manson and the rest of his followers with them. When Dennis saw Manson standing on his driveway, he asked 'Are you going to hurt me?' Manson fell to his knees, kissed Dennis's feet and said 'Do I look like I'm going to hurt you, brother?'
The Beach Boys were Brian, Dennis and Carl Wilson, their cousin Mike Love and schoolfriend Al Jardine, and - despite the perfect music they created - they were famously dysfunctional away from the microphones. Yet even by the standards of the Wilson brothers, Dennis was very messed-up. Despite being ridiculously good-looking, he was riddled with self-hate and insecurity, and was completely directionless when away from the drums or piano, numbing himself with drugs, booze and sex. As such, he was an absolute sucker for Manson's offer of regular group sex and seemingly worldy-wise philosophising.
So Dennis welcomed Manson and his Family into his home. Before long, Manson had played some of his songs for Dennis, and the middle Wilson brother was so impressed that he contacted producer Terry Melcher.
Melcher was Doris Day's son and produced acts such as The Byrds, and Melcher was similarly impressed by Manson's music. It was around this time that Neil Young also met Manson and heard his music (unlike most, Young has always been honest and open about how impressed he was by the charismatic Manson).
A recording session for Manson was arranged in the home studio of Brian Wilson, much to the displeasure of Brian and his wife, Marilyn, who didn't appreciate their house being temporarily overrun by foul-smelling hippies. The session was overseen by engineer Stephen Desper, who worked on several classic Beach Boys albums (Sunflower and Surf's Up), and who Manson pulled a switchblade on during the session. Afterwards, Desper reported to Melcher that Manson was 'unproducable'.
Despite this, Dennis agreed to record a Manson track with the Beach Boys. Originally called Cease to Exist, Dennis renamed it Never Learn Not to Love and the track appeared on the Beach Boys' 1969 album 20/20 and as a B-side during the same period (thus granting Manson top 70 chart success).
A common myth is that Manson was furious that he wasn't credited on the track. This isn't true. Manson didn't care about being credited. He did, however, care about the message conveyed by his lyrics and he was incandescent with rage when he discovered Dennis had rewritten the lyrics.
As a result, an angry Manson showed Dennis a bullet and threatened the life of his son, which either caused Dennis to beat the hell out of Manson or flee in terror (accounts vary, but the former is more in keeping with Dennis's macho volatile nature). Either way, Dennis moved out of his home and left Manson and his Family to be thrown out by the landlord (his dalliance with Manson and co allegedly cost Dennis around 1/2 million dollars in damages and gonorrhea bills).
By now, Manson's hopes of music stardom were fading and he moved out to the Spahn Ranch (a former Hollywood production set) with his followers. Melcher visited him there to watch a Manson audition, but the moment had clearly passed and he wasn't impressed. This further angered Manson.
At the time Melcher lived at Ciello Drive, and Manson had been in a car with Dennis and Melcher at least once at the property, if not several times. However, Melcher had moved out when, six months later, Manson sent some of his followers there to commit murder.
It is often claimed that Manson incorrectly believed Melcher still lived there. This is a myth. Manson knew Melcher had moved out because he had sent his followers to Melcher's new home to scare him by 'creepy-crawling' his home (moving furniture and objects about during the night).
Manson fully knew that Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate now lived at Ciello Drive and he likely just picked the property simply because he was familiar with it, he knew the layout, and he knew that rich famous people lived there.
A GREAT book to read on this subject is Chaos by Tom O'Neill. Highly highly highly recommended. You won't be able to put it down.
Never Learn Not to Love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49bxJKLI5d8
Sorry, what was the question again?
I've always heard about Manson's charisma and I think you had to be royally fucked up to find him charismatic. Rolling Stone published an interview with him sometime this century and he was phenomenally BORING and I'm guessing he always was.
Well, his many followers and several big-name rock stars would likely disagree. They certainly found something attractive about him, and it certainly wasn't his looks or personal hygiene. I've seen clips and footage of him where it's easy to see why so many people found him so strangely alluring.
I know what you write is true. Most people never found him charismatic, but people missing something internal -- a sense of what's real and true? a core self? a functioning brain and gut instinct? -- fell for his line of bullshit. Look at celebrity itself: the pursuit of the talentless by the mindless (Judge John Deed).
Weren’t the people who found him ‘charismatic’ on LSD most of the time? LSD can make wallpaper appear fascinating.
I don't think anyone could stand to be on LSD most of the time. I would imagine they were on multiple drugs (poly-substance abuse) much of the time, everything from marijuana to heroin and cocaine.
That said, I don't think I would have found Manson interesting even when I had taken LSD!
Probably more cocaine than heroin, considering their crimes, but you must be right, because I’d find it hard to believe LSD alone would facilitate that behavior. As well, most people on cocaine think they themselves are brilliant and fascinating. Perhaps his skill was in manipulating certain emotionally vulnerable or generally insecure, possibly narcissistic too, people on this toxic cocktail to believe that they’re some especially powerful, unique cabal that could dominate the world?
I’ve listened to recorded interviews with some of ‘the family’ as he called them and they are disgustingly self centered and remorseless, but that tends also to be boring, as you say.
Manson and his followers couldn't even afford basic food and drink most of the time so not sure where they'd get the money from to buy LSD.
Hey there, Tom, back in the 1960s and 1970s it was ONE DOLLAR for a tab of quality LSD, and probably cheaper if you bought a lot.. Marijuana came in nickel ($5) and dime bags.
Yes, I think that is most likely true, hence the appeal of Manson to the supremely talented but royally screwed-up Dennis Wilson.
Having said that, I've watched this video (below) multiple times and Manson's facial expressions are certainly fascinating. He was full of shit, but he knew how to make people pay attention to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9QXY80OxS0
I just see him as boring and trying to get attention. I don't know why you would want to look at this "multiple times."
Because he's a genuinely fascinating individual. People are often fascinated by the darker things in life, and Manson is certainly that. A random faux-hippy somehow brainwashes a small army of followers into butchering wealthy Hollywood celebrities - that is many things, all of them horrible, but boring it clearly isn't.
This is a great true story: Dennis Wilson, Terry Melcher and songwriter Gregg Jakobson went to the famous Whisky A Go-Go nightclub in Hollywood with Manson in tow. The place was THE place to hang out if you were young, rich and famous in the late 1960s. Suddenly, the entire dance floor cleared and everyone stopped dancing and fell silent. Dennis, Terry and Gregg got up from their seat and went over to see what was happening. It was Manson, dancing wildly on the dance floor, completely alone, and the entire venue had stopped as one to watch him in action. Jakobson later said: 'There seemed to be electricity pouring out of him'. Manson could even take the limelight away from A-list celebrities when he wanted to.
Interesting! Many years ago I worked on a shoot with Pete Doherty and he really had an amazing atmosphere around him .. can only describe it as energy was just leaking out of him ..?
The whole party culture/music culture in Hollywood loves and has always loved "characters." You really never know here if the oddball you are talking to at a party is going to be the next pop culture sensation, because lots of famous and successful music people ARE really weird. And while some people are considered universally charismatic, there is also niche charisma. Guys like Manson are everywhere in Hollywood. They spice up a party. It's easy to say what you'd think of Manson in retrospect, given hindsight. Lots of weird Manson types never murder anyone.
Easy to say what I'd think of Manson in retrospect? I was living in the LA area when the "family" began its murder spree.
Brilliant !!!
Have you seen 'Love and Mercy'? Such a great movie.
I enjoyed it, but there a few things about it that bothered me.
Paul Dano certainly looked the part, but he played Brian as this sort of fey simpering man-child that bears no resemblance to the assertive, dynamic, good-humoured individual heard on the Pet Sounds Sessions and Smile Sessions box-sets.
John Cusack's performance was just kind of odd. Not sure what that voice was he was doing, but it didn't sound anything like Brian circa 1980s.
Melinda Ledbetter is portrayed as this heroic flawless heroine who singlehandedly rescues Brian from the evil Dr Landy, but the truth is quite different to that. There were a lot of others involved whose contributions are barely even mentioned, if at all.
The film is very unfair on the other Beach Boys, particularly Carl and Dennis Wilson, who are largely portrayed as being unsympathetic and unsupportive of Brian's forward-thinking music. The exact opposite was the case. The scene in the swimming pool is particularly unkind. "Hey, come on into the shallow end with us, Brian" - it's a real insult to portray Carl and Dennis in this way.
Finally, the film repeats the myth that Smiley Smile was created by the other Beach Boys without much involvement from Brian. This is total nonsense. Smiley Smile was as much Brian's baby as was Smile, and the direction of the album and its contents was entirely dictated by Brian.
Oh,that's intetesting,I don't know a lot about the Beach Boys but great insight in to the band members.Thank you.
BABY BLUE
Finally, this gorgeous ballad is from their supremely underrated LA (Light Album) from 1979. The track was co-written by Dennis Wilson, his then-wife Karen and his regular collaborator (and witness during the Manson trials) Gregg Jakobson, and it features Carl and Dennis sharing lead vocal duties. I played this song at my wedding. It's utterly, utterly beautiful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxaj1m5PMA8
MRS O'LEARY'S COW
It doesn't get more out-there than this: Mrs O'Leary's Cow, aka Fire. Written by Brian Wilson, and recorded for the legendary Smile album in 1967. During the recording, Brian had the session musicians wear fire helmets and he even lit a fire in the studio to add to the atmosphere. Sadly, a real fire broke out in a nearby building within days of the recording session and Brian, gripped by drug-induced paranoia, became convinced that this track had indirectly caused the blaze. Both the track and the Smile album were promptly shelved for over four decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4xqFe0iHGA
RIVER SONG
This is the opening track from Dennis Wilson's superb solo album Pacific Ocean Blue (1977). Epic would be an understatement. Sadly, Dennis's life started to unravel shortly after the release of the album, but it's a real gritty masterpiece and remains probably the greatest solo album by any member of the band, Brian included.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCzTLnFpLE
FEEL FLOWS
This track is from their excellent Surf's Up album from 1971. It is, for my money, one of the finest psychedelic tracks ever recorded. It was later used by Cameron Crowe for the end credits of Almost Famous (the director is a major Beach Boys fan). Co-written and sung by Carl Wilson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp_8GKcNvdQ
Here's five of their more experimental tracks (of which there are hundreds). Hope you enjoy 'em!
ALL I WANNA DO
This track is from their spellbinding Sunflower album from 1970. Today, All I Wanna Do is widely regarded as the first ever chillwave track and is cited as a major influence by many modern-day shoegaze artists. It also features one of Mike Love's best-ever lead vocals. Written by Brian Wilson and Mike Love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_LX-m74uw
They're one of the all-time greats and certainly worth exploring. Their music is far, far, far more experimental and adventurous than their public image suggests. Brian Wilson was basically an avant-garde artist working within a pop/rock format, and his younger brothers were often equally as bold and talented, especially Dennis.
Today! (1965), Summer Days and Summer Nights (1965), Pet Sounds (1966), Smiley Smile (1967), Wild Honey (1967), Friends (1968), Sunflower (1970), Surf's Up (1971), Holland (1973) and Love You (1977) are all radically different from one another, and they are all fantastic albums. There are many more strong albums in their (huge) catalogue, but these are the cream of the crop. Dennis Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blue (1977) is also well worth a listen.
Oh, and assume that almost all the accepted wisdom about them is wrong.
None of them surfed? Wrong.
They didn't play on their records? Wrong.
They didn't play their own instruments? Wrong.
The Wrecking Crew did everything? Wrong. [Of the 23 studio albums released by the Beach Boys between 1962 and 1979, the Wrecking Crew were the primary instrumentalists on approximately three.]
Mike Love hated Pet Sounds? Wrong.
The band didn't support Brian? Wrong.
Brian scrapped Smile after hearing Sgt Pepper? Wrong.
Brian quit making music and recording with the Beach Boys after Smile fell apart? Wrong.
The Tom O'Neill book Chaos: The Truth Behind the Manson Murders touches on this specific topic: 10050 Cielo Drive was Ground Zero for the West Coast counter-culture movement, where Hollywood royalty rubbed shoulders with hippies off the street. The philosophy behind it is both good and bad: 1, a genuine attempt to create a contemporary salon culture, where ideas mix freely, and, 2, Manson was the protected pimp to the stars - he supplied underage girls to the L.A. elite and so "couldn't get arrested".
I was enjoying that but it got a bit too confusing for me, should I revisit?
Absolutely. The time Manson spent in San Francisco is fascinating - he frequented a free clinic run by the C.I.A. Manson left San Fran because the hippy movement collapsed as all the kids were now taking speed with their LSD and so started killing each other - which is what happened with the Manson clan just before the murders. I would also recommend the Rob Zombie documentary Charles Manson: The Final Word. For depth and totally at a tangent, the book The Big Goodbye: Chinatown and the Last Years of Hollywood explores what was happening with Polanski and the effect of the murder of his wife on the course of Chinatown.
I read the latter! It was indeed excellent.
Yes, a truly superlative book which has enhanced my appreciation of Chinatown no end. Tom O'Neill sensed a hidden hand protecting Manson: Manson was paroled in 1967 and any minor infringement could see him back in prison automatically. Between 1967 and 1970, Manson was picked up by the police near enough on a weekly basis, with every one of those incidents being enough to see him back behind bars (they usually involved crossing state lines with underage girls). Policemen O'Neill interviewed said that it had all the hallmarks of Manson being protected from on high - you don't arrest the pimp who delivers girls to the important men in L.A. There's also some strong indications that Manson was a C.I.A. asset, to be used against the Black Panthers and the counter-culture movement. One of the most interesting facets of O'Neill's book is a sense that the author was starting to experience an unsettling feeling of developing a sympathy for the devil. The prosecution case against Manson and some of the others in the group was very shaky - technically, Manson should never have gone to prison. Also, Manson isn't Manson - the persona created by the media was a blunt weapon to kill the counter-culture movement and bore little resemblance to the actual man.
I just want to second the O'Neill book. Thought it was fantastic. Certainly doesn't tie things up with a bow, but is compelling, if still confusing.
The biography: Charles Manson by Jeff Guinn (I think it was...) was surprisingly informative and factual, all the way back to Manson's childhood to the materials he studied while in prison (like positive thinking? and Scientology?, I think were two...) that informed his later cons, to what can actually be said about all the wheres and whys of the whats that he and his little cult did later. And the still unanswered questions.
There's interviews with his sister (bet you never thought of him as having one), and his cousin--- lots about his mother and his fostering and his sons, yes, sons, two of them. And I'll tell you this, when I heard Manson's rap, the cadence of it and the delivery,(it's very musical and hypnotic), he sounded like a hundred, persuasive--- if you were of a mind for it, good fundy Sunday hellfire preachers I heard ( and without a doubt, him, too) growing up. --- He studied and he copied. And he took a little from here and there. Wrapped the old in the new.
Manson was a pimp. He had been long before he started his "family," and he pimped those poor women and girls, as well. That's why he was welcome in Wilson's home, for a while at least. It was the access to sex with young women and girls that made people put up with him, alas.
That was certainly a key factor, but Dennis Wilson was also drawn to Manson as an individual. The Wilson brother's father, Murry, was a notorious arsehole, a real nasty piece of work, abusive physically and mentally. And Dennis seemed to spend a lot of his adult life searching for substitute father figures: first with the Maharishi, then with Manson, and then later (and more happily) with Otto 'Pops' Hinsche, who was the father of Beach Boys sideman Billy Hinsche, and who Dennis was very close to throughout Hinsche's final years (he died in Dennis's arms). Manson was part of a pattern.
There is an eye-opening magazine article from the late 1960s in which Dennis waxes lyrical about Manson and how amazing and talented he is, referring to him as 'the Wizard'. It didn't last, of course, and Dennis eventually saw through Manson's bullshit, but for a period he definitely bought into the idea that Manson was someone special and important.
Yes! There’s a song on Neil Youngs album ‘on the beach’ called ‘Revolution blues’ that is about him / that time. Seems that Neil was angry that no-one owned up to hanging out with him and also passing the ‘family’ girls around ..
sorry can you rephrase? what was the song about?
Do you like Neil Young ? Really worth listening to the track.. it’s a beauty .. the whole album is v special.
The song Revolution blues is about the Manson murders and a general anger at what happened. In an interview Young talks about the fact that many on the scene were using what Manson had (drugs and women) and after the murders all those celebs and industry people ran from that particular affiliation ..
Does that make sense ?
I've been banging on about the similarities between Manson and the GI gang to the bemusement of those around me! This is why I think there is a centralised figure/figures behind it, someone distributing the core information. I know I sound like a loon but it feels too sophisticated to simply come from a few mentally ill people. Gender ideology is genius in its tactics...evil genius of course but you cannot fault its strategy and how quickly it has infiltrated culture.
Of course you're right. Check out Jennifer Bilek who researched the funding behind trans, but I think the U.S. government is deeply involved. Great way to distract people from actual issues!
I have thought about this myself. Social media is so intrinsic to the cult behaviour. I've just kept repeating, 'Imagine if Manson had social media. Imagine what he could have done.'
I watched a Manson documentary recently that has aired on Lifetime in which interviews with current surviving Family members such as Squeaky Fromme were being interviewed. Some of those women are still in complete thrall to "Charlie" as they call him. One woman refused to leave prison at the end of her term because she wanted to remain with her Family members.
One thing that was obvious to me was their behavior at the trials. Their loud, repetitive behavior reminded me of current TRA's shouting repetitive mantras in the face of Kara Dansky at the Phili Speaker's Corner. This is frightening because as the Manson family would kill for him without blinking an eye, so to I believe would these enthralled TRAs if given the signal that it would help their cause.
I don't know much but Terry Melcher (Doris Day's son) and Candace Bergen hung out with them too. The podcast You Must Remember This did a great series on Hollywood and Manson, there may be something on that (it's harrowing though) x
Manson wanted a recording contract and thought that Terry Melcher could give him one, but he wasn't good enough. Melcher used to live in the house which Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate lived in. He probably went to that house to kill Melcher out of vengeance, not realising he no longer lived there.
Nope, Manson definitely knew that Melcher had moved out.
In the months prior to the Tate/LaBianca murders, Manson instructed his followers to go to Melcher's new home and 'creepy-crawl' it while Melcher was sleeping (creepy-crawling was when Manson and his Family would go into people's houses at night, move around all the furniture, and then leave).
Also, Manson visited Ciello Drive in person in the months after Melcher had moved out. This was the sole occasion when he and Sharon Tate ever saw each other in person.
It is likely that Manson simply picked Ciello Drive because he was familiar with it, both inside and outside (there are several accounts of Manson being seen inside the house during Melcher's time there), and because he knew there were rich Hollywood people living there whose deaths would cause a stir.
I didn't know that. I'm only basing my assumption on a documentary I saw a while ago.
Intriguing questions. Hippies as chosen flower children who will lead the world into a new age. They couldn’t possibly, actually, just be regular humans with regular human foibles and weaknesses, could they? Some of them couldn’t possibly, actually, just be real misfits glomming onto a community that will give them immediate acceptance and access? 'Hippiedom' as a sort of sanitizing flower power with the magical ability to cover over a multitude of sins; and, in some credulous people's minds, possessing an almost 'sacred' anointing as 'exalted other' -- signified simply by long hair and beads and bell bottoms and dropping out.
They were actually, mostly, what they were advertised as being, which was kind of ---the original slackers really. And the people who carried on about how very much they hated them for the next 50 years were, again, mostly--- libertarian leaning, locust like, very, very unpleasant assholes who didn't want anybody throwing shade on their divine right to be self centered and selfish in all things... as Mother Ayn put it.
By the 80s there was too much unemployment (in the UK anyway)so no casual work to keep you going and no cheap lland or squats or mansions to start a commune, which was not half as appealing as starting a nightclub or joining a band was, by then
Alan Watts lives forever on "Alan Watts Radio Livestream" on youtube.
All his lectures were recorded in the 60's, so you can hear for yourself what the vibe of the time was like; the lingo, the topics, the attitude. As well as enjoying a little enlightenment along the way.
Also of interest:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAOS:_Charles_Manson,_the_CIA,_and_the_Secret_History_of_the_Sixties
have just been getting into Alan Watts!
Fantastic, Gray!
The best thing in the whole world is to lie down, in the dark, and become one with the universe through the vessel of Alan Watts.
✨🙏✨
The Surprise is my favourite part.
https://youtu.be/ZVoOwitfExc
Not an incredibly remarkable movie, but ultimately worth the journey in the end, I recommend "HER", with Scarlett Johansson, Amy Adams, and others.
Looking forward to an exposè on the dirty hippies of the 60's!
Another research film with insight into that era, stars Dean Stockwell, called "Psych-Out".
And then, there's the wild-ride of "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" - if you're feeling brave.
'Season of the Witch' though I couldn't tell you any more about it than the title and it had some of the zeitgeist. from the sixties.
Read Dave McGowan’s book “Weird Scenes inside the Canyon”. It will blow your mind
kindled, thank you
‘Chaos’ is on Audible. I believe ‘Weird Scenes’ is too. ‘Chaos’ author alleges the book ‘Helter Skelter’ was misinformation woven by the lawyer who wrote it. Vincent Bugliosi was the prosecutor, and O’Neill makes the case that it was a CIA cover up from the beginning.
It’s been a while since I listened, but I’m positive ‘Chaos’ also discussed the night prior to the Tate murders. Apparently the phone lines were cut at Jay Sebring’s (hairdresser to the stars) home, and other similarities, but Sebring wasn’t home that night. O’Neill posits that Sebring was the target and Sharon Tate etc were killed just because they were there. It’s a very interesting take.
You might want to research Laurel Canyon too. Quite the rabbit hole.
oh yes! I really want to get this one.
'The Dirty Fucking Hippies....were right'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvpC8H8yJBg
IIRC Richard Nixon called the hippies this...because they shunned govts, rules, laws, just wanting to live in Peace & Love, not truly understanding the evils of other humans.
Look into The FBI too, under Hoover, a really vile man....and how FBI drove French actress to take her own life....The Black Panthers, Leonard Peltier, (still in prison to this day for a crime he never committed), AIM, The American Indian Movement, 2 of the leaders were Russell Means and John Trudell, both incredibly intelligent men, no longer with us now, sadly...HATED by US Govts....
There was so much going on at this time in history......so The Hippies were trying to change it all, really trying to bring Love and Peace into the lives of us all.
I can still vividly recall the day Manson murdered Sharon Tate and the others...I was very young, on holiday in Holt, Norfolk. Mum and Dad had the telly on, and suddenly, the news flashed up of this awful murder, of her precious baby too, almost ready to be born...It was beyond horrific. I couldn't believe anyone could be so evil. Mum and Dad turned the TV off fast, but it was everywhere that week, in every newspaper, on every billboard outside shops, etc....Polanski was famous too, of course, no-one knowing of his other side with young girls... It kind of stopped all the Love and Peace feelings....that this Wretched Evil had come a-visiting, led by this Rasputin-like man, with the mad eyes, who had the narcissistic ability to draw everyone in, to captivate them all...........
I so miss The Hippie Days...the beautiful music..it was a very lovely time to be young, flowers in our hair, hope in our hearts...
I watched 'Trainwreck - Woodstock 99' on Netflix the other day, SO different from the original Woodstock, the aggressive music, the aggressive fans, the greed of the organisers, all water/alcohol removed from everyone wanting to enter this awful site, a former airbase, all concrete...They charged a fortune for water, for any form of drinks, toilets overflowed, as did the anger of the crowds, fires started up, whilst stupid bands egged everyone on.
Made me cry...........
It was the very opposite of what Peace & Love was about....
I still wear a flower in my hair to this day, always will....and I hope to be buried with a flower in my hair too....I think my dear and gentle son will sort that for me, bless him.
Where it all went wrong, where Transworld has gone so wrong too, is that very damaged humans ruin it all, mentally unwell, either arriving on the planet thus, or becoming like that due to life treating them so badly. And many can't ever see that. They long for Peace & Love, where everyone is accepted, and they can't bear to look deeper, into The Dark Side, which, so sadly, always comes up again...
To end on a happier note....how it was supposed to be, forever, "with Summertime being a Love In there....gentle people with flowers in their hair..."
'If You're Going To San Francisco'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I0vkKy504U
Please. Many women reported being raped at the original Woodstock. It wasn't all peace love and hapiness.
Leftist guys used the free love and peace movement to coerce women into sex. Having 5 brothers and being raised Catholic gave me enough scepticism to resist the, "but it's the Age of Aquarius" line.
Yes. You only have to read Carly Simon’s biography to understand what it was like for most women then .. awful .. what a scene .. and she was in a pretty good / exalted position ..
I grew up with Carly Simon's music, and James Taylor. I was born in 1955....and it was a good time for loads of women, great time to be young in. I know there are always bad people doing bad things, but the way the 60s/70s (early 70s) has been portrayed in recent times makes me very angry. I was there...it was a lovely time to be young in.
Tried to click like and couldn't. I think some of what you remember about that era that feels good is that we had HOPE, hope for a better future and a different kind of world. I don't think young people have hope anymore and they're easy prey for crap ideologies.
I have not read that. I will do so. Thanks for the info.
I recall having learned about the Woodstock '69 rapes in a Women's Studies class back in 1988. I was shocked because the only image I had of Woodstock before that was the 1970s documentary which purposely portrayed it as this utopian event. It was a nightmare in reality. People died. Women got raped. So much for free love. There was almost a mass electrocution because of the combination of faulty electrical wires and water. The list goes on.
Please. I have never read any stories of 'many women reported being raped at original Woodstock'.
Perhaps some were, perhaps some decided that all the 'free love' going on needed a bit of a twist in the story, to save some faces, so to speak.
Either way, I wasn't there, I don't the women personally, nor the men they accused, have no idea of the situations they were in, at the festival.
I always step right back from 'historical abuse' cases, especially when I have no idea of the people concerned.
Not meaning to be rude, but to be honest, I was a bit miffed at your somewhat patronizing reply....and yes, I copied you 'please' bit...
Thank you.
You have never read any stories about Woodstock rapes therefore they didn't happen. Ok. Not only that but you are accusing the women of having lied to save face. Whose side are you on!!!! Go put some fucking flowers in your hair and tune out and turn on or whatever useless, lazy, hippy dips do.
Whoa. People who were young at that time saying they found it a great time to be alive is that offensive to you? Someone dares to disagree with you, so you resort to abuse and character assassination? Way to claim the moral high ground there.
Sorry if I can't give you exact references etc but hey,it was fifty years ago and pre-internet,but I remember reading a reportage of young men queueing up to fuck an unconscious hippy-chick while her "friends" looked on.....
Apologies to the spirit of Jean Seberg, for forgetting to mention her name, when talking of the FBI driving her to taking her own life...by their 'neutralising' of her...
That is also covered I the brilliant podcast series You Must Remember This. The episodes compating the careers of Jean Seaberg and Jane Fonda are marvellous.
You are very right that the Hippies wanted Peace & Love; it was, Astrologically, the Dawn of the Age of Aquarius.
There was a Spiritual Power and Liberation Rising up - this is felt and reflected in many people born in the early-mid 60's, and the music and movements of the era.
The planets Uranus (Awakening) and Pluto (Darkness) were conjunct in Virgo (Healing & Embodiment).
Unfortunately, Peace, Love, Liberation, and Awakening are the enemies of the System of Slavery that lords over humanity: they won't allow it.
The CIA brought Heroin (agents) to Woodstock, to "take out" as many hippies as they could.
You can look for it online, but to this day, there is a terrible Heroin problem still left over in Woodstock.
They assassinated Agents of Change; they used MK-Ultra agents to seed darkness (cults like the Manson 'Family'); and they sent propaganda and division through every media and medium (including Gloria Steinem working for the CIA - this can also be seen in her own words on youtube).
Including the creation of the Vietnam War.
War: the greatest Divider of all.
Divide; Conquer; Confuse.
We can see echoes of this, today, with covid being a factor in accidentally or vicariously unifying human consciousness all over the globe, that was swiftly exploited by the PTB in all countries and global affairs, and followed shortly after by the drums (and bombs) of war.
(not to mention the confusion around: "What is a Woman?" these days.)
Peace & Love - and Healthy Boundaries.
For you Ellen Bee! Ace of Cups band revival! With Flowers in Their Hair! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP3uMR1CEeY
It was Peace & Love, man....
Dear Richie Havens, his book, 'They Can't Hide Us Anymore', first and only to arrive into Woodstock on time, all other acts caught up in 30mile traffic jams, all around Yasgur's Farm. Had to keep playing for over 3 hours, making up the songs in the end...In his book you'll read all about that time, all the amazing artists in Greenwich Village, the laid back times, everyone welcome....very 'inclusive' in every way...As with all good movements, The Hippies were infiltrated by The Bad 'Uns...
Many of the old hippies still around in California, accepting of everyone...no matter what...and, I expect, still getting shafted by those who pose as Peace & Love Man, types, who can, so often, have very sinister motives.
I wouldn't call Manson a hippie. He masqueraded as a hippie. Hippies were into peace, love and happiness among other things. Manson was a predator. Manson had no qualms about having people violently killed. If you want a hippie look to John Lennon.
There is a type of leader who is never the thing they lead. They take up whatever gets them a following to gain power. Manson was never a hippy, Trump is not a Republican.
'All The Ways The Manson Family Was Connected To Hollywood Royalty'
https://www.ranker.com/list/charles-manson-hollywood-connections/erin-wisti
What a fantastic BTL! Excellent and educational, does it show the age of we Glinnerite terfs?
Helter Skelter, The True Story of the Manson Murders, by Vincent Bugliosi andand Curt Gentry is an excellent exploration of that cult.
As a young university anti-Vietnam war campaigner, be assured that there was more to the hippie movement than the Manson travesty.
I know it's tangential to your question Graham, but the film "Down and Out in Beverly Hills" with Nick Nolte and Bette Midler encapsulates the scenario you ask about.
Nolte played the part of an alcoholic drifter accepted into an "A list" Hollywood family through his guile and talent.
Brilliant.
Watched this again, recently!
From the You Must Remember This podcast notes: Future episodes will explore the various celebrities, musicians, movie stars and filmmakers (including Roman Polanski, Sharon Tate, The Beach Boys, Dennis Hopper, Doris Day and more) whose paths crossed with Manson’s in meaningful ways, both leading up to the murders and in their aftermath. Today, we’ll talk about what was going on in the show business capital that made Manson seem like a relatively normal guy.
No - and it’s REALLY bugging me that I can’t remember exactly who. But I have read about people (wealthy, generally sympathetic to the counter culture) who had much poorer hippies living in their homes. There was an obituary in the last few years that had a story like this. I’m going to dig through some stuff this weekend. It’s definitely a thing.
I know Penny Rimbaud talks about letting hippies stay in her house in Last of the Hippies, and that it was a "thing" more generally. And it's something that John Moretta talks about although I don't think he mentions any names of people, just that it was common
This is correct. Crass used to do this but Penny is a man
The Mansons damaged our rep among those who disliked us anyway.
We knew they had nothing to do with us.
I loved that time period in my life. Like so many women I was happy to reject the gender boxes that sent boys off to Vietnam; and mistakenly assumed we were freeing ourselves of all the gender boxes. Later realized women were essentially still in the same roles, just more sexual freedom. Men were relieved of Nam and their entire old roles of supporting the family.
There were years before I realized the sexes were not in sinc about the direction and goals of our movement. Those years in between, I was very happy in my ignorant bliss thinking we were united in building a new world.
The original "Helter Skelter" book by Curt Gentry and Manson prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi is an excellent read on the case. I deplore the way that Manson manages to still be regarded as somehow 'cool' in certain quarters. There is no question that he was a racist, misogynist psychopath who didn't truly believe in whatever hippie ideals really meant, he simply used the naivety of lost youngsters for his own ends. He wanted the blacks to rise up... and then turn to HIM as leader. A nasty, evil murderous shitbag of a human being. But a charismatic one, and it says a lot for the time that so many were taken in by him, including some celebrities.
It's worth reading Tom O'Neill's 'Chaos' for balance when it comes to Bugliosi, who had his own agenda. I enjoyed 'Helter Skelter', but it's worth noting that this theory of what motivated the Manson murders was essentially fabricated by Bugliosi as a means of selling the prosecution of the case - it's certainly not the whole story.
I agree. ‘Chaos’ was an eye opener.
Tom O’Neill did a lengthy interview with Joe Rogan too. The guy knows his stuff. Over ten years of research.
Perhaps it’s the absence of any underlying ideology (the dropping out bit) that made hippies or hippy wannabes more susceptible to shysters. There are no standards in the ‘alternative’. It’s the alternative man…The Bhagwan, the Maharajah, Children of God etc. were all able to find willing supplicants. They were quite happy to sacrifice their children along the way in true Abrahamic style. Have a look at the documentary on Netflix about the Bhagwan (Wild Wild Country) to see how easily children get forgotten in the rush for liberation.
I checked and there is historiography. Manson was a friend of a famous friend of Anton LaVey. Susan Atkins, one of Manson's killers, was in a LaVey topless show. The term "Manson Family" was actually coined by the research staff of the Haight Ashbury Clinic that studied his group as a free love community and it got amplified by the media. Manson became a key figure in the origins of the Satanic Panic as well as a hero to some really messed-up actual satanists. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/mar/10/kenneth-anger-interview
Here’s the story about Terry Melcher who Manson had ‘beef’ with .. https://allthatsinteresting.com/10050-cielo-drive
I’ve read a few books on the subject and they say that there were so many cults at that time - so Manson was not as noticeable / weird as he might seem now. People ‘dug it’ (hah!)
Will try and find the title of the good book - it’s a fascinating story. Also there are some great bits of footage / documentaries on him on YouTube.
Brother Love, just to name another Kentucky bred cult leader.
Manson was the first time I remember looking at the news and after hearing him speak saying to myself, that's funny, he sounds just like me.... Cause his mother and grandparents were from 20 miles down the road, next county over on the Ohio river, at Ashland, next to West Virginia.
I'm sure I remember watching this, some interesting comments on here though, lots of weird home movie type stuff:-
https://www.denofgeek.com/culture/inside-the-manson-cult-the-lost-tapes-review-families-bond/
The novel The Girls by Emma Cline is a fictional account of the Manon famy from the perspective of one of the young women he abused. It is a great read.
No I don't know about that...he was bonkers though!
Tom Jones SHOCK: How Tom Jones escaped the clutches of prolific killer Charles Manson
"Unfortunately, she did not reveal a reason why the Welsh singer was chosen, but given that reportedly, Manson arranged the murders to launch the imminent, apocalyptic race war, it can be assumed, Sir Tom was deemed important to the ”war”.
The other famous targets on the list included:
Actor Steve McQueen
Actress and businesswoman Elizabeth Taylor
Actor Richard Burton
Singer Frank Sinatra
Reasons for these other celebrity targets were never revealed and it is unlikely it will ever be revealed as both Atkins and Manson are now dead."
https://www.express.co.uk/celebrity-news/1172039/tom-jones-shock-charles-manson-sir-tom-jones-news-manson-family-california
I believe some of the answers as to "why" might be found here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAOS:_Charles_Manson,_the_CIA,_and_the_Secret_History_of_the_Sixties
Graham, I appreciate this is off tack but might it be worth doing a piece updating how many historical figures are being trans'd these days. Elizabeth I, Joan of Arc, people involved in the Stonewall riots but I'm sure there's many more. If these people get their way, soon there'll be no actual great women of history left 🤬
Dead right. Seems strange that it's the women of history being Trans'd, never the men.
Yet to hear that say Napoleon was a cross dresser.
Yes! This re-writing of 'trans' history must be called out!
Absolutely. I read a book about the music of the period which touched on this, and alluded to a connection between the Stones, their album "Their Satanic Majesties Request", and their association with Manson.
I think it was called Laurel Canyon by Michael Walker
The Stones didn't have any association whatsoever with Manson.
Well in the book I read, it suggested that they were around him at the sane time as Brian Wilson.
Nope, they had nothing to do with him. They were in the UK for starters, but even if they had been in America occasionally during this period, they weren't in any way involved with Manson. Perhaps they later pretended they were because they thought it might add to their bad boy image, but they definitely weren't. Manson was involved with Dennis Wilson, and thus indirectly involved with the Beach Boys. And, of course, Manson was associated with the Beatles in that he thought the White Album was giving him messages and encouraging him to start a race war. But the Stones? No involvement at all.
Having said that, sitting through the 'Their Satanic Majesties Request' album is enough to drive anyone to murder...
Oh !!! ‘Mess’ is on !
I will be watching .. xx M
Tom Wolfe wrote ‘radical chic, Mau mauing the flack catchers’ about the fascination high society had with the black panthers. He also wrote electric kool aid acid test about Ken Kesey and the merry pranksters. There was quite a lot of interplay on the music scene, more so around SF and swinging London. HST used to hang about with politicians, the pranksters including, bizarrely sort of befriending Nixon (they bonded over football, even though HST loathed the man).
Maybe it wasn’t the scene where anyone could walk into a celebrities apartment, but there were overlaps in places. Zane Kesey, Ken’s son may be able to help you as he was at the heart of that scene.
I'd say Bernstein donating to the Black Panthers is analogous.
Bear with me, this might get confusing 😂
Look up Steve Hodel, a former cop who authored a book stating he believed his father, George, murdered the Black Dahlia.
Steve married his father’s mistress, Kiyo, and lived on Laurel Canyon where she was astrologer to the stars.
Steve’s sister Tamar claimed she was molested by her father, George. I believed Steve backed this up, going as far as to cite an incestuous affair between George and Tamar.
Steve’s sister Tamar got tangled up with Michelle Phillips, and subsequently John Phillips. Both members of the Mamas and the Papas, also living at Laurel Canyon.
John Phillips had a penchant for underage girls, including his own daughter. Both John and his daughter claim they had an incestuous affair.
Manson attended many parties at the home of ‘Mama’ Cass Elliot, who had an open house policy. The Manson Family bus was also spotted outside the home of John and Michelle Phillips, including New Years Eve party of 1968, eight months prior to the Tate/Labianca murders.
Laurel Canyon has quite the history.
There's a brilliant podcast called You Must Remember This which featured a whole miniseries called Charles Manson's Hollywood - highly recommend it.
Author Tom O'Neill is the expert on Manson and all that surrounded him during that period. His book is a must-read. He was on Joe Rogan's podcast and I highly recommend the episode. The things he uncovered (things he can prove) are jaw dropping.
https://www.amazon.com/Chaos-Charles-Manson-History-Sixties/dp/1785152076
Dennis Wilson was in a drug induced state since he was a teenager so he was clueless to how Manson was manipulating him,I don't think that many 'celebrities' wanted anything to do with Manson,it would only take a few minutes of talking to him to see that he was dangerous,Steve McQueen wanted to hire someone to kill all of the Manson family, many celebrities feared that they would be Manson's next victims. CSN,the other beach boys avoided the Manson family.
BBC documentarian Adam Curtis did a series," Can't get you out of my Head", that explored numerous aspects of our emotional post WW2 history. Many of the current issues that are troubling at the moment, were "explored" in the series of programmes. Thoroughly recommended checking it, and other Curtis documentaries, out. Very enlightening.
I think it may have been that these celebs may have wanted to scotch any accusations of having 'sold out' and used Manson and his ilk to show how down they were with the counter culture.
You Must Remember This podcast does a great series on Manson and Hollywood celebs
http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com
I'm going to write this before reading anyone else's comments. I lived in the LA area in 1969 for a short while. At the time the Manson Family had murdered a school principal in a parking lot if I remember correctly, and the atmosphere was definitely on edge.
That said, there was a sea change in hippiedom in San Francisco from basically an alternative economic and social structure to Haight-Ashbury (a working-class neighborhood) turning into a place for teenage runaways. I was always skeptical of hippiedom because it seemed so flaky, and it has a lot to do with today's "just accept everyone as they are" philosophy. Was it Firesign Theater or Procter & Bergman who did the bit about the man trying to talk to a politician (complete with Kennedy accent) about a young woman who needed help? "But, senator baby, she's starving!" "Young man, that's her trip."
Jeezums, how the powers-that-be have exploited that sentiment!
Never heard about celebrities allowing freaks to wander through their houses.
My first thought on mention of shoeless hippies in celebrity homes was the scene from the Lennon Doc rather than the Manson LA hippies...
https://youtu.be/o6exx_AmWk0
This is what celebrity gender hippies will soon look like. https://youtu.be/Q_rHSTjyWNk
Can thoroughly recommend 'Riot on Sunset Strip: Rock 'n' Roll's Last Stand in Hollywood ' by Domenic Priore - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Riot-Sunset-Strip-Hollywood-Revised/dp/1908279907 Dominic was a great interview and helped our documentary on the Whisky a Go Go, especially the hippie scene which was turning ugly and dangerous around that time, leading to the riots and police crackdown and state and city sanctioned violence. I was in LA for a while, interviewing musicians from The Doors, Jefferson Airplane but the ones that stood out were the people around the scene, workers and waitresses at the Whisky and the other clubs, telling real stories. The strong impression I got was it was all peace and love and everyone helping everyone else, fabulous music and emerging talents but that was for a brief period, before a new breed of hippie emerged. Most were adamant things changed and became more threatening around the crowd that followed Zappa - freak out dancing getting more and more aggressive and violent. Drugs getting stronger, disillusionment and darkness and increased poverty reacting against perceived quick wealth amongst the film and music industry. People I interviewed that came in contact with Manson were still visibly shaken, like a shadow passed over them. I interviewed one lovely lady who was a waitress at the Whisky (later a manager and booker) and she recalled the night that Manson refused to move from the stairs to the balcony - he was blocking everyone. He told her he was Jesus and could do what he wanted. No one wanted to approach him and she was so unnerved she called Mario, the owner, who wasn't meant to be working that night. (I had access to Mario Maglieri and his family and there's no way anyone would want to cross them...). Mario told me he came back to the club and asked Mason to move. He again said he was Jesus so Mario told him he was god and to "get the f**k out of my club". He picked him up, dragged him out and threw him onto the Strip. That was the night the murders were committed.
This podcast is an excellent resource:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/you-must-remember-manson/id1315652782