I would like to see these people who advocate for prostitution make a video of themselves finding a (client!) then having sex with them.
All the politician's, women's organisations or any of these organisations that think it is so good...please make a PR video of yourselves doing it. Thank you.
Not just one - they have to do it for a week, on the streets, taking all-comers (if you'll excuse the term). They have to sleep in the sane accommodation, eat the same food, as street girls. It still wouldn't be the same, because they'd know it would be over soon, but they should at least taste (again, forgive the term) what they are condemning other women to.
I always think of Julie Bindel asking that student who said ‘sex work’ was no worse than working in a burger bar if he was prepared to give a blow job to the man next to him or do a shift flipping burgers.
I remember so vividly a FB post many years ago by Rebecca Mott (a sex trade survivor who now campaigns against it). She wrote about a punter who, whilst abusing her, would brag about his work with a human rights NGO. The total disconnect is hard to fathom but this article explains a lot.
A leader in an Amnesty group in the US, Marcia R. Lieberman, wrote about her experience of being ejected from US Amnesty over their endorsement of prostitution here: https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/dignity/vol3/iss3/1/ - click on the "Download" button. Her article is entitled: "Decriminalization of Prostitution Policy: Amnesty International
Punishes A Dissenting MemberPunishes A Dissenting Member" (2018)
“Sex workers are one of the most marginalized groups in the world who in most instances face constant risk of discrimination, violence and abuse.“ Yes. Mostly from pimps, traffickers and punters, the people Amnesty want to decriminalise. How are they so shameless? I’m beginning to think this is a global conspiracy, and I hate conspiracy theories.
Penis havers 1 (& more)...women adult human females 0... Feel sick, dirty and abused once again. My eyes and heart hurt😟🥺. Who will save us from these vile misogynists 🙏🏻
Amnesty are an awful organisation. When a member of family died my solicitor described them as notorious hearse chasers. They have a large dept of well paid "researchers" dedicated to harassing executors and beneficiaries of wills.
They monitor the will/probate system and start to hassle in assorted situations e.g. if they don't receive expressions of wish, if they opine executor is taking too long to achieve probate, etc. As Phew! Is it over yet? states, Amnesty isn't the only one at it. My solicitor has an interest in such shenanigans and collaborates with the SRA.
Ultimately I believe charities belong to the public. Charities Commission comes over as too weak. I think lots of registered charities are involved in things they shouldn’t be (like gender - not equality so they shouldn’t be doing it in my opinion)
Believe other charities do that too. Also shocking some are Stonewall supporters. Makes me think some well known ones have lost the plot. Annoys me a lot
This is such a well-written (and horrifying) article. Amnesty International have completely lost their way. To think I devoted hours to writing letters for them in the 1980s!
I like the way she describes their utter disingenuousness when presenting their arguments...
"This way of arguing is sometimes called a straw man argument and is often the sign of a poor argument or an ulterior motive. It is not the behaviour we would expect from an international human rights organisation".
Unfortunately we should clearly expect it from AI. Ulterior motives abound (today also). Follow the money. And that Douglas Fox sounds appalling. Astonishing that he was allowed to propose/influence this change of policy (though I note from Amnesty's website that they deny this).
The involvement of a pimp in crafting their policy is unconscionable. Interestingly they use the same "no debate" tactics we have become so familiar with
That needs to be sent to the head of news in RTE Mr retweet got over 2 minutes last week on the 6.1 news on RTE in Ireland talking about this sex work is real work shite where they aloud him on unchallenged,RTE is a state broadcaster.
It always interests me that organisations stand up and tell governments to decriminalised prostitution when they have little knowledge of ehat prostitution means to the majority of women, girls and young men involved.
Prostitution, in the main, is not glamorous. It is not well paid. It is not university students paying their way or high class call girls with an alternative career.
It is women addicted to street drugs, women who have been abused all their lives and who think abuse is normal, it is homeless women, it is young men who have been abused as children and think rape is normal, it is girls and women who have been sold or stolen from their families.
There is no consensual sex involved. It is abuse, torture and as is said in the article it is a violation of human rights. The pimps and brothel owners are people who should not benefit from this violation. They need to be hailed and their money put into the rehabilitation of the women, girls abd young men who are violated on a daily basis. Punters need to be reminded, probably through a public visit to a police station, that they are abusing the people they "buy". Absolutely no consensus in the majority of these transactions. Simply abuse.
I think there are many things that consenting adults do that are, in my view, morally wrong but that are not violating anybody’s rights.
And there are many who don’t want to see such activities where they live, work or raise their children.
Criminalizing such activities doesn’t end them. It just pushes them into the black market and creates a lot of new problems.
For example, you can’t keep children out of an activity if it’s not operating in the open.
A better way to handle such activity is to allow residents and property owners decide what is allowed in public spaces where they live/own. It should be possible to have red light districts where adults can go to engage in such activities.
But, yeah, Amnesty is pretty corrupt and it should return to its roots of defending political prisoners, not political correctness.
I wish there was a way of saying to everyone who got the email to check the web version. sometimes I post too fast and miss something important
Just add that to a note at the top of the next email out.
They say “sex worker”, I see exploited human being.
No coincidence the "sex work is work" and "trans women are women" mantras are similarly vacuous.
As well as the exploiters (pimps) who profit; who apparently are also "sex workers" ... just "managers" in a "legitimate business" 🤮🤑
I would like to see these people who advocate for prostitution make a video of themselves finding a (client!) then having sex with them.
All the politician's, women's organisations or any of these organisations that think it is so good...please make a PR video of yourselves doing it. Thank you.
Not just one - they have to do it for a week, on the streets, taking all-comers (if you'll excuse the term). They have to sleep in the sane accommodation, eat the same food, as street girls. It still wouldn't be the same, because they'd know it would be over soon, but they should at least taste (again, forgive the term) what they are condemning other women to.
I always think of Julie Bindel asking that student who said ‘sex work’ was no worse than working in a burger bar if he was prepared to give a blow job to the man next to him or do a shift flipping burgers.
I remember so vividly a FB post many years ago by Rebecca Mott (a sex trade survivor who now campaigns against it). She wrote about a punter who, whilst abusing her, would brag about his work with a human rights NGO. The total disconnect is hard to fathom but this article explains a lot.
It was probably Amnesty
Thanks for this, Graham!
I honestly can’t believe what I just read. Amnesty’s policy on prostitution was drafted by a pimp?
They deny it 🙄
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/douglas-fox
Yes, not very convincing. Don’t they vet their members?
Maybe vetting the money is more interesting to them? I assume he came with a nice pile of money.
A leader in an Amnesty group in the US, Marcia R. Lieberman, wrote about her experience of being ejected from US Amnesty over their endorsement of prostitution here: https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/dignity/vol3/iss3/1/ - click on the "Download" button. Her article is entitled: "Decriminalization of Prostitution Policy: Amnesty International
Punishes A Dissenting MemberPunishes A Dissenting Member" (2018)
“Sex workers are one of the most marginalized groups in the world who in most instances face constant risk of discrimination, violence and abuse.“ Yes. Mostly from pimps, traffickers and punters, the people Amnesty want to decriminalise. How are they so shameless? I’m beginning to think this is a global conspiracy, and I hate conspiracy theories.
Penis havers 1 (& more)...women adult human females 0... Feel sick, dirty and abused once again. My eyes and heart hurt😟🥺. Who will save us from these vile misogynists 🙏🏻
Amnesty are an awful organisation. When a member of family died my solicitor described them as notorious hearse chasers. They have a large dept of well paid "researchers" dedicated to harassing executors and beneficiaries of wills.
WTF?
can you explain how that works?
They monitor the will/probate system and start to hassle in assorted situations e.g. if they don't receive expressions of wish, if they opine executor is taking too long to achieve probate, etc. As Phew! Is it over yet? states, Amnesty isn't the only one at it. My solicitor has an interest in such shenanigans and collaborates with the SRA.
I think it is quite common for charities to do that
Indeed it is, although I believe it's three or four of the biggies inc' Amnesty whose conduct is excessive.
Ultimately I believe charities belong to the public. Charities Commission comes over as too weak. I think lots of registered charities are involved in things they shouldn’t be (like gender - not equality so they shouldn’t be doing it in my opinion)
Not good
eg https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2010/nov/29/rspca-challenges-will-ruling
Believe other charities do that too. Also shocking some are Stonewall supporters. Makes me think some well known ones have lost the plot. Annoys me a lot
This is such a well-written (and horrifying) article. Amnesty International have completely lost their way. To think I devoted hours to writing letters for them in the 1980s!
I like the way she describes their utter disingenuousness when presenting their arguments...
"This way of arguing is sometimes called a straw man argument and is often the sign of a poor argument or an ulterior motive. It is not the behaviour we would expect from an international human rights organisation".
Unfortunately we should clearly expect it from AI. Ulterior motives abound (today also). Follow the money. And that Douglas Fox sounds appalling. Astonishing that he was allowed to propose/influence this change of policy (though I note from Amnesty's website that they deny this).
It’s very dark.
That is an astounding article. How much lower could Amnesty sink?
I agree. What. an. article. Excoriating.
The involvement of a pimp in crafting their policy is unconscionable. Interestingly they use the same "no debate" tactics we have become so familiar with
They're against sex work they don't personally profit from.
That needs to be sent to the head of news in RTE Mr retweet got over 2 minutes last week on the 6.1 news on RTE in Ireland talking about this sex work is real work shite where they aloud him on unchallenged,RTE is a state broadcaster.
It always interests me that organisations stand up and tell governments to decriminalised prostitution when they have little knowledge of ehat prostitution means to the majority of women, girls and young men involved.
Prostitution, in the main, is not glamorous. It is not well paid. It is not university students paying their way or high class call girls with an alternative career.
It is women addicted to street drugs, women who have been abused all their lives and who think abuse is normal, it is homeless women, it is young men who have been abused as children and think rape is normal, it is girls and women who have been sold or stolen from their families.
There is no consensual sex involved. It is abuse, torture and as is said in the article it is a violation of human rights. The pimps and brothel owners are people who should not benefit from this violation. They need to be hailed and their money put into the rehabilitation of the women, girls abd young men who are violated on a daily basis. Punters need to be reminded, probably through a public visit to a police station, that they are abusing the people they "buy". Absolutely no consensus in the majority of these transactions. Simply abuse.
I think there are many things that consenting adults do that are, in my view, morally wrong but that are not violating anybody’s rights.
And there are many who don’t want to see such activities where they live, work or raise their children.
Criminalizing such activities doesn’t end them. It just pushes them into the black market and creates a lot of new problems.
For example, you can’t keep children out of an activity if it’s not operating in the open.
A better way to handle such activity is to allow residents and property owners decide what is allowed in public spaces where they live/own. It should be possible to have red light districts where adults can go to engage in such activities.
But, yeah, Amnesty is pretty corrupt and it should return to its roots of defending political prisoners, not political correctness.
I would urge you to spend some time on the Nordic Model Now website
https://nordicmodelnow.org
As for decriminalisation, here is the realities of how that approach worked out for prostituted women and the community in Holbeck: https://nordicmodelnow.org/2020/10/26/how-living-near-the-holbeck-red-light-zone-turned-us-into-activists-against-the-sex-trade/
And Sarah Field’s incredible speech about prostituted women in Holbeck which Glinner posted here: https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/men-know-what-a-woman-is-in-holbeck/comments
The dehumanisation, degradation and abuse of women in legal brothels in Germany etc is utterly harrowing to read. http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/
I’m afraid it just doesn’t work like that.