The Cost

Part 1: Lost friendships

A friend of mine on the other side of this debate recently ‘reached out’, as the Americans say, and we’re starting to have a conversation. I wanted to show him that our story was not unique, and that many people, mostly women, were losing their friendships, (including entire social circles) and even family members, because a sizeable and influential section of society has suddenly decided that a belief in biological reality makes you Tommy Robinson.

I asked variations of the following question on Facebook, Mumsnet and this site.

What was the closest friendship you lost because of your beliefs? Or not even the closest, just one that surprised you or knocked you back? We all know about losing livelihoods due to 'cancellation', but I want to show people the social cost of it.

I now have 22 pages of answers. Here is a selection.

LOST FRIENDSHIPS

I had a friend/penpal I met through a fandom we shared that I used to text and share cards with that blocked me and called me disgusting when I shared my views that biological males shouldn’t be allowed to compete on women’s sports teams.

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Someone I'd been friends with for 15 years who felt like a sister to me. Told me at Christmas that I’m an idiot and a bigot for my views. Not spoken since.

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A young woman whom I fancied will no longer communicate with me because I think "gender identity" is an empty concept. And a former chess partner of mine thinks me a bigot because I don't think women can have penises and because I think Alex Drummond is a man.

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One of my longest friendships. We had been mates for almost two decades. She never said anything, just ghosted me entirely. It hurt.

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I lost the only friend I have in my adopted country. She posted something like “Fuck T*RFs” about JK Rowling I asked her what she thought was so wrong with what JKR said. Cue massive argument. I took pains to make it clear that while I am broadly supportive of trans people, I don’t agree with everything that is being done in their name, and that I don’t think people should be harassed, threatened, cancelled, doxxed or fired just for asking questions or raising concerns about certain aspects of the ideology. I naively thought I could get her to see sense by very calmly and rationally and politely explaining my reasoning, which is based in part on my experiences as a secondary school teacher. Well... she didn’t address a single point I made, just spouted slogans like transwomen are women, trans rights are women’s rights, trans people are the most oppressed group ever. She also asked if I’d ever actually met a trans person and condescendingly suggested I needed to educate myself because it was “really sad” that I felt my womanhood was “threatened” by theirs. You know, the usual shit. (It really as if they’re all reading from the same script!) In the end we agreed to disagree in order to save our friendship but weeks later, we still have not spoken.

At this point I realize I cannot in good conscience remain friends with someone who actually says things like “a trans woman’s right to feel safe and comfortable is more important than a woman’s because they are more vulnerable”. I mean, seriously, WTF?! She is now posting memes with pictures of guns and slogans like “Arm Transwomen” and “Kill T*RFs” (though she claims to be a liberal, tolerant, non-violent, anti-gun person) so I feel I have made the right decision in removing her from my life.

However, I do worry about what she might tell our mutual acquaintances about me, and how that could affect my prospects here. I think my husband would definitely get fired from his job if his company knew what our views were, even though we are in no way hateful or bigoted.

Oh btw this same friend is very much into BLM but she regularly tolerates racist remarks from her friends and relatives yet she will not accept even a hint of so-called “transphobia” from me, her closest friend! I have no idea why she thinks this issue - which does not affect her personally in any way - is more important than any other and is worth falling out with me about.

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Two close friends, one a gay man id been close to for two decades. Saying it was transphobic not to accept transwomen in rape centers. Believes TWAW (transwomen are women). Doesn’t believe sex defines a woman’s physical reality. Now goes by “they/them” wondering what he thinks of sexual orientation (since he is gay).

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20 year friendship because I attended a meeting discussing women’s rights in light of gender reform. Absolutely gutting.

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I was the president of a local chapter of my music club and I was asked to step down bc I made people feel “unsafe/uncomfortable” because I refused to refer to a paedophile by their “preferred pronouns” on a Facebook post, and because I do not believe people can change sex.

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My best friend since childhood doesn’t talk to me anymore because of my “hateful” views, I’ve known her since nursery, 20 years of friendship down the drain.

I also had to leave my university canoe club, which I had been an active member of for 4 years, because of the posts I put on my Facebook page and the fact that I once wore an adult human female top to walk home in one night after a pool session. I was informed just before exams that the matter was going to be taken up with university staff and then had to wait months to find out how far they were going to take it, not the most relaxing time, anyway the whole kerfuffle ended with me having to have meetings with the university disciplinary officer where they wouldn’t even let me explain my views, they were “upsetting to people” and so I should silence myself, a friend was going to publish a story about it in the uni paper but it was vetoed by the editor.

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I volunteered at the local hospital. Was close to a girl that called me Auntie, I called her niece. She went to college bisexual, came back Pansexual, calling me a hateful bigot for being a lesbian. I had not changed at all. But suddenly in her eyes, I became a hateful bigot.

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I'm literally being kicked out of my home for my gender critical views at this time and also lost a close friend for this reason.

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I lost a lifelong friend (35+ years) over it.

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22-year friendship because of who I'm friends with and my activism. More concerned about being "tainted by association".

Slowly shut me out until I confronted her and she admitted it. Now that whole friend circle, people I've known for 22-10 years have all distanced themselves. They were my closest friends.

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I was sent screenshots of a horrible woman saying "how come I have 50 mutual friends of horrible TERF Martina? Why are you friends with her?" and then comments underneath of my supposed 'friends' grovelling to her saying "I've tried to reason with her, but she's so fixed in her transphobic views. I will unfriend her now". Actually not one of the cowardly rats had ever even had the courage to discuss the issue with me - on my posts, or in DMs. But were prepared to denounce me to the Witchfinder General behind my back. Pathetic

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I would say more than anything I've lost psychopathic acquaintances who seek validation and points by appearing to be conscious and aware on-line. I have always been obsessed with fairness, like. I was the kid screaming "that's not fair!" So I have no choice but to take issue with the way trans activism has hurt women and girls. I will not shut up about it, just as I won't shut up about other justice issues. There's also the issue of needless lying. I think suggesting that in order to be valid or accepted we need to believe trans people are born in the wrong body is a transphobic belief! How about we just accept that people don't want to live by the prescribed social constructs around gender and that transitioning can make it easier? But anyhow, despite seeing these woke maniacs for who they are, I have had many sleepless nights. I have been called horrible names by people who know me. I have also received many private messages of support. And look at this thread, there are hundreds of us, all with the same story to tell.

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Untold amount of my kids friends parents that have been FB friends and deleted me. My daughter has lost a close friend because her father didn't like my views.

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A couple of former students of mine. I had a great relationship until I started questioning transgender stuff. It really upset me to get labelled transphobic by one of them.

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I lost a job being a companion to an Asperger's teen who decided I was transphobic.

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My girlfriend when at the age of 38 decided she was really a transman.

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I've lost several friends over my gender critical views and campaigning. I think the one that hurt the most was when a young woman who I've know since she was a child called me a bigot. She also said I was 'out of touch' and my that 'brand of feminism' (ie radical feminism) is 'cruel and elitist'. She is in academia, drenched in queer theory and in the thrall of several leading trans activists whose every word she takes as gospel. I'm hoping that when she's a bit older and wiser she might realise it was crusty old TERFs like me who fought bloody hard for some of the rights and opportunities she now takes for granted.

The one that shocked me the most was a woman with whom I had a 25-year friendship, having known her since university. She eventually became the manager of the Rape Crisis Centre in the city in which I used to live. I used to volunteer there, I helped with fund raising etc. Several years ago my former (and I stress the word former) friend implemented the policy of opening up the centre to 'self identified women' (*eyeroll*) and would not tolerate any disagreement or discussion. I know several dedicated, hard-working and very valuable volunteers were dispensed with for questioning her decision. Now biological males can not only use the centre, they are welcome to apply for paid and voluntary positions as long as they 'identify as women'. I do not mourn the loss of our friendship (I do not recognise the person she's become) but I am very angry about the callous disregard she shows for the victims of male violence. She's supposed to be ensuring these women have a safe space in which to heal but instead she's prioritising males with laydee-feelz.

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My gay best friend of 20+ years ditched me when I asked questions about Pride.

A friend of a friend, also a gay man, ditched me after I questioned Sex Ed content - he compared it to section 28.

An ex colleague asked if I knew any trans people and maybe I should speak to some before I share content from bigots.

The only one that hurt was the first one. Since then I've had questions about my position and accusations of bigotry etc levelled at me and I've come to expect it, but now I have more friends than ever, IRL and online and I feel more connected and supported than before.

In the end it wasn't much of a loss.

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I’ve lost touch with a good friend of 20 years standing who is full TWAW and actively campaigning for self ID.

We used to have similar views along the lines of be kind/most oppressed minority ever but as time has gone on she’s bought into everything & called me a TERF and I’ve gone completely GC.

Can’t get past it sadly. I might have been able to live with TWAW but I can’t with the pro active campaigning for self ID.

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I regularly met a group of women for a meal. They broadly agreed with me, but when election time came voted green, labour or Lib Dem as I would have in previous years. I spoilt my ballot, and feel that they now think I'm a right wing loon. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Another distant friend tried to turn me against JKR. I politely pushed back- as she's pretty fragile- and she told me she was glad I was listening, and that it's enough for now. I muttered under my breath that i hoped she was listening too!

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I grew up rejected by my peers and escaped online. There I finally found people who got me, who didn't judge me, who were just as weird as me. I found people I could connect with intellectually. People who accepted me as human.

Lost 'em all over this.

The one that hurt the most is the best friend of a decade. She wasn't just an online friend, she was like a brain twin. We knew each other inside and out. Losing her over my perceived bigotry was the worst. Especially because she's a biologist.

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I am sorry to read of these losses. So far I’ve only had one not-too-close friend cut me off entirely. A very close friend of 30 years has drawn back from me over this though, even though we never discuss it.

What perplexes me is that the people who are dumping friends are always from the TWAW side of the debate- the side that calls itself tolerant and inclusive, and urges people to be kind. I hardly ever (never?) hear of GC people dumping friends for being trans allies. Which is weird, if it’s us that are supposed to be so vile and intolerant- we sure do seem to be able to rub along with and tolerate other people with views that we find upsetting.

I’m well able to be friends with people with different viewpoints, in fact I think it would be quite sad and limiting if I wasn’t.

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Lost one of my dearest friends (a trans man) of over a decade over my 'hateful' views. It's also severely undermined my relationship with a work colleague and mentor I was good mates with (another trans man). The situation with my trans friends saddens me but I can understand it, I suppose - they're heavily personally invested. Far more hurtful are the friends who are not trans who have deleted me or accused me of bigotry without even having a discussion with me first. One of these is a typical 'wokebro' but we've known each other since we were 5. So yes, the personal costs have been very high.

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A colleague who was a ‘brain twin‘ someone I had known and worked closely with for over 10 years.

One of the very true male feminists I have ever known, who took me by surprise in a meeting at work the first time we met, by listening and agreeing when I made a mildly feminist point (instead of whatabouting or dismissing)

A true champion of civil rights, he’s a very active local politician and true lefty who has fought for the underdog since forever.

He has a trans family member. And when he started muttering darkly about T4RFS I knew we were on the way out. It is mad because deep down the ideology is SO at odds with everything he stands for really. But he has too much personal investment. (The FM has had multiple surgeries, and been on meds and in therapy for years, this is a whole family effort)

Utterly gutted, I have rarely had such respect for someone.

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I was also quite active in fandom and fanfiction, though I haven't had much time since (my son) was born. I occasionally go on Tumblr still and see friends I've had for years who preach tolerance and respect while decrying the GC viewpoint as "hateful" and advocating for silencing and deploying violence towards GC women with seemingly no sense of irony.

There's no attempt to see where GC women might be coming from and complete misrepresentation of GC views. They were the first people I ever felt brave enough to share my writing with, which was a huge step for me at the time. It seems a bit ridiculous, but that was my community for so long and it hurts so much to see how unwelcome I'd be (putting it mildly) if they knew how I truly felt. I don't want to let it to stop me from writing, but it's definitely lost its fun for me now.

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A friend from uni who has been a good friend for 25 years and one of DH’s best friends. No longer wants to speak to us. Blames me for ‘corrupting’ my husband with my hideous GC feminism and my husband (who is extremely independent-minded and at least as GC as me) for being brainwashed by me.

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On the topic of online cultishness, I'm not immersed in fandom at all. I never post on Reddit, I don't have a Twitter or Tumblr account, but I have written a fan fic while in lockdown. It was bizarre because I went on Reddit around the time JKR posted terf wars, and members of that fandom were saying how much they loved my writing and the feminist streak that runs through it. (Stealth boast...) And then in another bit, they were all abusing JKR horrifically, with lots of Karen-ing! It was a surreal and horrible experience. And it was more surreal because while I don't try and preach gender critical, my feminism is very obviously sex-based and yet they were all over that. It was so odd.

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It's weird. It's even more divisive than Brexit. At least with Brexit, there was a sense that the opposing sides understood each other, but once the wokeness has been partaken of, its adherents just stand there screaming "bigot" and losing pretty much all capacity for rational thought.

It really has the hallmarks of a kind of religious mania which has led to some sort of collective delusion.

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A friend I'd known for 20 years. Not a close friend, but celebrated the birth of my daughter with me, knew my MH struggles and I knew hers, we saw each other a few times a year and mostly kept up on social media. A few mutual friends who I now realise are TWAW liberal feminists.

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I lost most of my friends 8 years ago. Mainly because I could not relate to them after my then-husband started to live as a woman. Until then I had known him as a man for 22 years. It makes no sense to me. I have kept my head down and focused on bringing up my children.

I divorced my husband. He continued socialising with our friends and even went out of his way to make contact with my old school friends. I was a psychological wreck from all his mind games. He became a very active member of trans groups. I still view him as an abusive man. I am wary that he has different sides to his personality. Otherwise I would be able to be more vocal.

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I was part of a group of women, mostly lesbians, who worked on an arts project a couple of decades (!) ago. We kept in touch over the years and now they all think I'm bigoted.

My husband agrees with me on some issues (e.g., transitioning kids, TW in women's sport) but works in a female-heavy media industry where pretty much all his colleagues have pronouns in their bios (rolling my eyes so hard). So he's nervous of being seen as a bigot, I guess.

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I was in a fandom/fan fiction scene that was based on tumblr which is why I’m very aware of how bloody dangerous it is. There are a huge number of young teens on there who are clearly struggling with life & feel very isolated posting absolute shite as fact - history is constantly trans washed, 14 year old girls insisting they’re aeromantic queer NB, that trans women are absolutely identical in every way to women “say it louder for the people at the back” and screaming TERF at anyone who even vaguely suggests that’s not the case.

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I haven't lost any friends over it, but mostly because I socialise with a very small groups of people, and they largely agree with me on the subject. I am VERY circumspect about what I say at work. I've raised the flag a few times but no-one bites. One of the guys there is very woke but quite reasonable (I'm religious he's atheist) and I pointed out to him the logical problems with trans identity theory as well as the problems for women and his response was "it's a bit harsh of you to use science to show me I'm wrong"

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I haven't lost any friends at all. Every single time I have talked about this subject, they have been in agreement that this ideology is misogynistic at its very core and that men are using it to abuse women and children. A lot of the time as well they haven't been aware of the issues but once we talk it through they are firmly against it.

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I worried what my friend who works in gender studies at a University thought about it. It came up in conversation one day and she thinks it is all utter bollocks but can't say anything for fear of losing her job. I feel sorry for her but so glad she hasn't drunk the kool aid. Somehow she quietly publishes stuff that is all about women. Hope she continues to get away with it.

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I've fallen out from quite a few people who don't see why I dislike being described as a "vagina fetishist". They are broadly the same people who, when my girlfriend and I first got together, were shocked that we did not identify with the entire "queer community". That I wanted to get on with my life without it being one long rainbow coloured glitter-fest.

I would call myself left wing. I support labour, I agreed with Corbyn over a lot of issues, I would generally describe myself as a very tolerant person. But now, I am somehow a right-wing bigot, a transphobe, a homophobe and, by obvious extension, a racist.

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I haven’t lost anything thankfully. And that’s because everyone I know in real life thinks gender stuff is bollocks when I point it out to them, are gobsmacked when they are told there are people advocating for males to play contact sports against women, and are horrified when I point out to them that hormone treatment for children results in no sexual function, infertility and a host of other problems. I haven’t trawled my Facebook to see if anyone has removed me as a friend as a result, and if I did I wouldn’t care.

I know this is the antithesis of the thread but I think it’s important to recognise - and point out to those TRAs who monitor— that the majority of people think the way we all do here, the house of cards is close to tumbling, and they can rage all they want, but their dangerous ideology won’t prevail.

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My best friend and I had been discussing the aggressiveness of the TRAs and the unreasonable loss of women only spaces, sports, etc. for about a year or more and then friend's husband said "how does it hurt you, why can't you just be kind?" The mantra of the unthinking masses.

I did not fall for this clincher argument. My friend did, and we can no longer speak on these issues. I am right but alone and I can handle that, not sure how my friend will handle finding out she was wrong, and women's rights do matter.

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I'm a goth, & of course that scene has always been hugely welcoming of crossdressers (although the boundaries are blurred anyway because lots of the gorgeous goth men of my 80s youth were resplendent in eyeliner, frilly shirts & jewellery, & lots of girls had a very androgynous look in DMs, skinny black jeans & baggy band T-shirts - & anything went in terms of hair!).

Plus lots of awkward geeky types, people with autism, gamers etc drifted towards alternative culture over the years.

These days I'm very out of step because the Kool-Aid of TWAW! has been mainlined, especially amongst the younger crowd, & frankly, some of the older men just love doing the Wokey Cokey & telling women off.

I've lost a few mates & had to agree to disagree with others.

Most of the trans-identifying people who go to goth events are thoroughly nice. I have, or had, several trans friends who are very likeable, genuine people, & found acceptance at gigs & festivals where they could just rock up wearing whatever the fuck they liked & be taken at face value, & in many cases have been doing so for years or decades.

There's a depressing new Puritanism which has crept in in the last decade, & heaven help you if you express the mildest of GC opinions. It's instantly interpreted as a vicious attack on someone's mate.

To be fair, goths will bicker about anything all day long. But there's a new vitriol in this particular debate.

It's sad.

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I may well be heading towards paying quite a substantial cost. I head up a "learned society" and we were discussing possible topics for our next conference. The issue of trans colleagues and debates over transgender came up. I had to speak quite directly about the fact that while we could run something to "support" trans colleagues, we couldn't have a debate, as I was not prepared for the doxxing, the death threats, the attempts to sack people like me ...

But I expect even an event that is about "support" will misquote the Equalities Act, and erase women. And I will have to say something. And that will lose me a lot of friends ...

I'm desperately trying to avoid this happening. I'm a coward.

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(in response to the above)

Oh my goodness - are you me? I also am about to head up a learned society - in a subject that has no obvious reason to be involved in trans issues - and this is an issue for me too. They are currently attempting to intervene as 'allies' and the office is staffed with young people who've drunk the koolaid and GI ideology has started to infiltrate the systems. Throughout academia, it is becoming more difficult to remain silent and it's an absolute nightmare because if you do speak up - you will certainly be condemned as bigotted and hateful. I don't know how I will navigate this. It's a real worry.

In life and friendships, though, things have been much simpler. All my family, all my true friends, my partner, my children (though they are young enough to still agree with their parents!), and several good colleague-friends - are all gender critical. It has been very bonding in fact. Some more distant colleagues are proving disappointing - but no one who was ever anything close to be a friend.

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Oldest friend - friendship isn't over per se, but the feeling of the relationship has changed. I have an inkling that this time next year we won't be talking to each other anymore.

He's big into his RS21 socialist stuff but should really know better. Woke, above all else. Very patronising individual, but never thought he'd turn that shit on me.

Nothing much interesting to say about it apart from the trajectory of our last argument because I think it exposes the weak points to communicate the messages to people before they dig their heels in and cut off.

He was talking about *you* in fact, and I said I agreed with you - made it clear that there was much mischaracterisation at hand, along with out and out lies. He immediately went into a 'you don't understand basic biology' rant, I asked him to educate me and send me what he was reading because I'd looked and had no luck. Nothing for months, argument flared again, asked him to provide what he was going to provide previously and lo and behold those shitty Guardian and Scientific American articles. Went through with him why people with DSDs have nothing to do with this, which I know he understood - cue pivot from the science to this exact quote:

"With gender I argue for the subjective experience of the person in question and regard biological determinism as the problem. There is no good reason to insist on the ontological primacy of physical sexual characteristic, which are in any case much more difficult to understand than is assumed."

Which typifies the mental contortions otherwise clever people go through. The journey from objective importance to subjective importance. Anyway, I'm meeting him face to face in a few weeks for my wedding, and I am absolutely dreading he brings any of this up. The important thing to remember, and certainly what keeps me sane, is that normal people don't believe this - when someone isn't invested into an ideology they will listen to what you have to say.

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I was part of an online forum for years, so knew lots of people, both IRL and online. There were 2 people I used to meet up with a few times a year. I'd known them for nearly 15 years. As soon as I said I didn't think Transwomen were women they deleted me.

We're still part of the same forum but now I rarely post or reply because I feel they're all against me (I know it isn't true, I've spoken to a few others about it, but they won't air their views online.) I feel like I've lost my whole online support group really. And one of my sons keeps asking when he'll see my ex-friends again.